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dlbalr

2019 NHL Offseason Thread

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I get that kinkaid isn't a #1, but I didn't realize how shit his numbers were last year

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35 minutes ago, DON said:

From By Dom Luszczyszyn in The Atlantic has Habs as very low among teams "Wins Added"...so far.

 

Montreal Canadiens

In: Nick Cousins, Ben Chiarot, Keith Kinkaid, Phil Varone
Out: Andrew Shaw, Jordie Benn, Antti Niemi, Nicolas Deslauriers
Wins Added: -1.1 wins
Salary Added: -$0.2M

Andrew Shaw had a surprisingly remarkable season last year and would’ve been good to keep around, but with the team’s forward glut I don’t blame Montreal for selling high. That’s the main reason the team sees a 1.1 win drop in value, as the rest is mostly a wash. Keith Kinkaid isn’t great, but he’s a marginal improvement on Antti Niemi. Ditto for Nick Cousins over Nicolas Deslauriers, though that’s mostly a depth move. On defense, I don’t think Ben Chiarot is the answer and he’s likely a downgrade over Jordie Benn at a higher cost. If they wanted a one-dimensional left-handed defender at a premium for three more seasons, they already had Karl Alzner sitting right there.

I've been questioning the chariot move as well.  His numbers are a result of playing with byfuglien. 

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1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

I've been questioning the chariot move as well.  His numbers are a result of playing with byfuglien. 

 

 

You know what you can't question? How much more the Jets fans are pissed about watching Chiarot go, than Hab fans are of watching Benn go.

 

We can paint it however which way we want to, but the Jets fans watched him play way more than any of us did combined, if they are upset about losing him, that dissipates most of the apprehension I would have about him joining us. He is no top LD, but he seems like a perfect candidate to play with Petry, Benn had the chance to be, and ended up losing the spot to Kulak. 

 

It is the kind of piece that has a veiled bias and vehemence to it about the Habs, lots of media people can't contain bias in their content, positive or negative bias. I can tell just by the salty barb at Alzner being around, and suggesting he is equal to Chiarot. If he was objective and didn't personally care about whether the Habs Fail or Succeed, he would have basically said the team has thus far made lateral moves, and left out the more personal barb towards the team out of it.

 

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Wow trade today between Edmonton and Calgary 

 

To Flames?

Lucic 

 

To Edmonton 

Neal

 

Thank god Bergevin wasn't in on this, it sounds like one of his type of trade's.

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Holland you fox...

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Metallica said:

Wow trade today between Edmonton and Calgary 

 

To Flames?

Lucic 

 

To Edmonton 

Neal

 

Thank god Bergevin wasn't in on this, it sounds like one of his type of trade's.

 

Which part of this deal seems like a Bergevin trade?

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25 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

 

Which part of this deal seems like a Bergevin trade?

The trading of a over priced guy hoping he just needs change to get going.  By that I mean Lucic. Neal seems like a good gamble putting next to Mcdavid.

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2 hours ago, Link67 said:

Holland you fox...

 

 

 

I agree. You would have to think Neal has a better chance of turning it around than Lucic.  To say Lucic has struggled would be a huge understatement. Between the beginning of this season and the end of the previous season he scored something like 2 goals in 80 games.  I never thought Holland would get rid of this contract. Of course he has to take one on but I think Neal can turn it around.  You get the odd scoring opportunity playing with McDavid.

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I like some of Luszczyszyn’s stuff but I think he is a little off comparing Chariot to Alzner. Chariot can skate for one thing...

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More of these type of conditions please. It's ridiculous and I love it.

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8 hours ago, Metallica said:

Wow trade today between Edmonton and Calgary 

 

To Flames?

Lucic 

 

To Edmonton 

Neal

 

Thank god Bergevin wasn't in on this, it sounds like one of his type of trade's.


So you'd be against trading Alzner for another player on a similar contract?

Were you against trading Moen for Gonchar (two overpaid players and we got out of Gonchar's contract one year earlier than Dallas got out from Moen)?
Were you against Prust for Kassian and a 5th (we added a pick, and got the cheaper player). 
Were you against Rene Bourque for Bryan Allen (two overpaid players and we got out of Allen's contract one year earlier than Anaheim got out from Bourque)
Were you against Cole for Ryder and 3rd (we added a third, Cole did nothing after we traded him, Ryder was good for us that year and we got out from his contract two years earlier than Cole)
Were you against Weise and Folin for Schlemko and Froese (cap hits were the virtually the same on Weise and Schlemko and also the same length. Froese is nothing. And Folin is the only NHL player in the bunch.)

Every single time Bergevin has made one of these bad contract for bad contract trades... we've won the deal.  So why would it be bad for him to do another?  He's not making bad deals when he moves out a contract he doesn't want anymore. 

 

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48 minutes ago, Commandant said:


So you'd be against trading Alzner for another player on a similar contract?

Were you against trading Moen for Gonchar (two overpaid players and we got out of Gonchar's contract one year earlier than Dallas got out from Moen)?
Were you against Prust for Kassian and a 5th (we added a pick, and got the cheaper player). 
Were you against Rene Bourque for Bryan Allen (two overpaid players and we got out of Allen's contract one year earlier than Anaheim got out from Bourque)
Were you against Cole for Ryder and 3rd (we added a third, Cole did nothing after we traded him, Ryder was good for us that year and we got out from his contract two years earlier than Cole)
Were you against Weise and Folin for Schlemko and Froese (cap hits were the virtually the same on Weise and Schlemko and also the same length. Froese is nothing. And Folin is the only NHL player in the bunch.)

Every single time Bergevin has made one of these bad contract for bad contract trades... we've won the deal.  So why would it be bad for him to do another?  He's not making bad deals when he moves out a contract he doesn't want anymore. 

It is possible to be a fan of those deals AND be thankful Bergevin didn't do one of them for Lucic.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Trizzak said:
 
 
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16 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

It is possible to be a fan of those deals AND be thankful Bergevin didn't do one of them for Lucic.

 

I'd have expected him to be on the side of moving Alzner for Neal (if he made the deal).   Probably would have gotten Calgary to throw in a pick too. 

Thats the kind of deal Bergevin makes with these contracts. 

If he can't get it, he just holds his guy. 

He's never made a bad deal just to get rid of a contract, so I don't think there was ever any real fear he would trade for Lucic.

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7 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I'd have expected him to be on the side of moving Alzner for Neal (if he made the deal).   Probably would have gotten Calgary to throw in a pick too. 

Thats the kind of deal Bergevin makes with these contracts. 

If he can't get it, he just holds his guy. 

He's never made a bad deal just to get rid of a contract, so I don't think there was ever any real fear he would trade for Lucic.

Bergevin was in on Lucic as a free agent, so there is always gonna be some underlying fear that he might circle back and try to polish that turd.

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1 hour ago, Trizzak said:

Bergevin was in on Lucic as a free agent, so there is always gonna be some underlying fear that he might circle back and try to polish that turd.

 

Bergevin was definitely interested in Lucic when he was a free agent. I remember an interview with Lucic where he talked about how the Habs had some really good western boys on the team (ie. Gallagher, Price, Weber) and he considered coming here. I bet Bergevin is thanking his lucky stars that he decided to sign with Edmonton. Signing Lucic to a big contract back then might have been the death knell for MB.  The game has passed Lucic by but he could still be a useful 3rd liner at the right price which would be way less than 6 million/year.  

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Sure he was interested 3 years ago... as a lot of teams were. 

A lot less teams are interested today.  I doubt Bergevin was interested. I haven't heard anything that suggests he was 

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30 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Sure he was interested 3 years ago... as a lot of teams were. 

A lot less teams are interested today.  I doubt Bergevin was interested. I haven't heard anything that suggests he was 

 

Absolutely a lot of teams were interested in Lucic back then, a big physical presence coming off a 20 goal season.  He had a really good first season with Edmonton but then things went downhill quickly.  The Oilers knew that at some point the 7 year contract would come back to bite them, they just didn't think it would be so quickly. 

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We can thank the Boston Bruins that we didn't get saddled with that awful Lucic contract.. It came down to Montreal vs Edmonton, and Lucic just could not bring himself to join the :habslogo: after all those years of hating us in Boston. Thank God.

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Kotkaniemi and Armia played in a charity game in Pori this past week -- Kotkaniemi skated on the same line with his father and grandfather. And assisted on a goal by his grandfather on Jussi Rynnas. (His father got the second assist.)

 

bf379c5d-24df-52ef-b19b-45861a968cbe-800

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Uh.... what?

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2 hours ago, Trizzak said:

Uh.... what?

 

 

The Leafs are already going to be in LTIR for all of next season so going deeper isn't perceived as a much bigger risk.  If Marner waits until during the season to re-sign like Nylander, this will give them a bit more flexibility to accommodate the higher Year 1 cap hit that will hit the books (assuming they can pile up enough contracts to get right to the Upper Limit before LTIR'ing Clarkson and Horton).  If Marner re-signs this summer, then they get into offseason LTIR (and admittedly, I don't know the mechanics of that particular calculation). 

 

In the meantime, they get a pick for someone they gave up on and it's not as if they'll have to pay a lot in cash to do it - only 20% of Clarkson's deal is uninsured.  Assuming his signing bonus was paid July 1st, his salary is only $1 million so technically, they save actual money with the trade.  (Where was Ottawa in all this?  This seems right up their alley...)

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

If Marner waits until during the season to re-sign like Nylander, this will give them a bit more flexibility to accommodate the higher Year 1 cap hit that will hit the books (assuming they can pile up enough contracts to get right to the Upper Limit before LTIR'ing Clarkson and Horton).  If Marner re-signs this summer, then they get into offseason LTIR (and admittedly, I don't know the mechanics of that particular calculation).

 

Nylander played only only 2/3 of the season, but he got a massive first year in his contract ($10.3M cap hit!). So, in the end, there was no savings for the Leafs. They lost Nylander for the first 28 games but they then caved and basically ended up paying him for the full season anyway.

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

The Leafs are already going to be in LTIR for all of next season so going deeper isn't perceived as a much bigger risk.  If Marner waits until during the season to re-sign like Nylander, this will give them a bit more flexibility to accommodate the higher Year 1 cap hit that will hit the books (assuming they can pile up enough contracts to get right to the Upper Limit before LTIR'ing Clarkson and Horton).  If Marner re-signs this summer, then they get into offseason LTIR (and admittedly, I don't know the mechanics of that particular calculation). 

 

In the meantime, they get a pick for someone they gave up on and it's not as if they'll have to pay a lot in cash to do it - only 20% of Clarkson's deal is uninsured.  Assuming his signing bonus was paid July 1st, his salary is only $1 million so technically, they save actual money with the trade.  (Where was Ottawa in all this?  This seems right up their alley...)

 

I have to admit that I don't understand the mechanics of a lot of this. Could Vegas not claim Clarkson on LTIR but the Leafs can?   What advantage does Vegas get by trading him if they could claim him on LTIR?  

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The point is that once you're into LTIR, going deeper is not much worse. LTIR means you get killed by the performance bonuses, but that's the case whether you're $10 or $10M over.

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10 hours ago, tomh009 said:

The point is that once you're into LTIR, going deeper is not much worse. LTIR means you get killed by the performance bonuses, but that's the case whether you're $10 or $10M over.

 

And it's not a coincidence that right at the time the trade was made, Deryk Engelland signed a contract with performance bonuses in it.  (They also have Cody Glass who could hit some if he winds up playing for them next season.)  I had heard that his deal was basically done three weeks ago so it's clear that clearing out Clarkson was what was holding up the official announcement.  For Vegas, this move gives them a bit of protection with the bonuses (plus someone they might like as a backup goalie).

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