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Habs sign Sebastian Aho to offer sheet

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29 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

How does he look stronger, almost every analyst has ridiculed the amount offered by Montreal.

 

In the end, the "analysts" (many of whom are just bloggers anyway) don't matter. But the other 30 GMs now know that Bergevin is willing to play hardball.

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34 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

In the end, the "analysts" (many of whom are just bloggers anyway) don't matter. But the other 30 GMs now know that Bergevin is willing to play hardball.

Sorry don’t buy it. I think MB showed that he is more of a softball player - or actually a waffle ball player.

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I think we'll need to agree to disagree, then.

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I'm no Bergevin apologist, but at this point, I'm pretty sure he could swap Hudon for McDavid, and people would say we have too many centers, and would complain about the cap hit. He tried an offer sheet, the other team matched. Unless people were content with 5 years of Aho at an inflated salary, for him to depart during his peak years, and losing 4 first rounders to boot, well, I dunno what to tell ya. It pretty much seems like a given that the Canes would've matched anything (for sure the two 1st rounder,2nd,3rd offer), potentially even an offer that would've surrendered the 4 1st rounders. Is Aho an $11M or $12M player? I ask that sincerely. Do people REALLY think this was done with a wink and a nod towards placating fans into thinking he was doing something? Sheesh. 

 

I will say that the movement of Shaw gave the appearance of clearing cap space for something a bit more definite, though. I'm also not ready to declare the offseason over on July 3.

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26 minutes ago, huzer said:

I'm no Bergevin apologist, but at this point, I'm pretty sure he could swap Hudon for McDavid, and people would say we have too many centers, and would complain about the cap hit. He tried an offer sheet, the other team matched. Unless people were content with 5 years of Aho at an inflated salary, for him to depart during his peak years, and losing 4 first rounders to boot, well, I dunno what to tell ya. It pretty much seems like a given that the Canes would've matched anything (for sure the two 1st rounder,2nd,3rd offer), potentially even an offer that would've surrendered the 4 1st rounders. Is Aho an $11M or $12M player? I ask that sincerely. Do people REALLY think this was done with a wink and a nod towards placating fans into thinking he was doing something? Sheesh. 

 

I will say that the movement of Shaw gave the appearance of clearing cap space for something a bit more definite, though. I'm also not ready to declare the offseason over on July 3.

 

Yeah, you are willing to wait and see how the cap space is spent. 

Of course there are other posters here, who don't show up for the entire year when the Habs are playing well... but post every day when they are in last place... and came back to the site after the offer sheet to drag Bergevin through the mud. 

So some people you can see are willing to be objective. 

And then there is H29 who is really just a semi-sophisticated troll. 

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so? it's done for Aho? All I see is CAR will match but have they signed the paper?

If they sure to, then why no confirmation fe real, fe real? mmmm ima not sold yet, why? idk

(edit)

that bonus to be paid in 10days, maybe? but seems off to me, stillz!

btw wots the interest rates on such a loan?

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

How does he look stronger, almost every analyst has ridiculed the amount offered by Montreal.  Craig Button called it laughable and there was no way that it won’t be matched by Carolina.  Any logical person would have known there is no way in hell a NEW owner of a hockey team is going to lose his best player who is 21 years old for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick - regardless of how front loaded the deal was.

 

the amount offered was less than what most elite  RFA’s want and is significantly less than what Marner wants and what Mathews got for the same term from THEIR teams that OWN their rights.  If you want the offer sheet to be successful you have to be willing to pay significantly more than what that team wants to pay then AND ensure that team feels they are getting decent compensation. The three picks the canes would get would have made them look horrible to their fan base.  It was great that MB got off his ass and took time off doing bicep curls to finally try and get an elite centre, but he fxcked up and lost an golden opportunity to finally get a true first line centre to start the year.  So the habs did lose.  

 

The canes win, they don’t have to worry about a holdout and got a player for what is probably less than market cap hit (just less than the Draisaitl contract that was for 8 years, but was signed 2 or 3 years ago and Draisaitl did not put up the same numbers back than at the same age).  Aho wins.  Someone made the dumb comment that Aho accepted the deal, so  why would MB offer more than that??  Obvious answer is that, of course Aho accepted the deal - he gets a ton of up front cash and regardless of whether the canes match or not, he gets a huge raise next year and even if he was looking for a higher annual average, with time value of money, he is ahead.  But the important point is that this was not a UFA offer sheet.  This an RFA offer, so it’s even more important that the offer be an amount that not only the player will accept, but it needs to be high enough, with enough compensation given up, so the other team DOESN’T match.  That is the simple thing that MB being the moron he is, was either to dumb to consider, or to arrogant to overlook.  Listening to the press conference after the offer sheet was signed he was extremely hostile and sounded like a jackass to the reporters who were asking him why he didn’t offer more money.

I agreed with MB logic. The pressure all along was up front money and term.  Not AAV or picks.  At the top of the tier, the money was 21.5 up front in 12 months. At 10 million it's 24 or 25 million. They didn't feel the difference was worth it. If they will sign and pay the 21.5, they will sign and pay 25. And the was a comfort zone for him as well.  Domi is going to get paid. Kk is gonna get a big ticket probably.  He gambled on dundon's liquidity and lost. After the two ufa he wanted were gone. 

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35 minutes ago, huzer said:

I'm no Bergevin apologist, but at this point, I'm pretty sure he could swap Hudon for McDavid, and people would say we have too many centers, and would complain about the cap hit. He tried an offer sheet, the other team matched. Unless people were content with 5 years of Aho at an inflated salary, for him to depart during his peak years, and losing 4 first rounders to boot, well, I dunno what to tell ya. It pretty much seems like a given that the Canes would've matched anything (for sure the two 1st rounder,2nd,3rd offer), potentially even an offer that would've surrendered the 4 1st rounders. Is Aho an $11M or $12M player? I ask that sincerely. Do people REALLY think this was done with a wink and a nod towards placating fans into thinking he was doing something? Sheesh. 

 

I will say that the movement of Shaw gave the appearance of clearing cap space for something a bit more definite, though. I'm also not ready to declare the offseason over on July 3.

 

I agree with what you said totally. I started a thread a year ago that basically said Bergevin had to go. But I really like his work over the past year and a bit. We all see that we've improved, fast and fun to watch, new coaches that have brought some fresh ideas, a very improved group of prospects and many more on the way over the next two years. At this point it seems a much better team in Laval, even with todays pickup of Phil Varone. 

 

I firmly believe the offer sheet was well thought out, especially considering the salary cap implications over the next 5 years and I think he offered what would fit for his team, short and long term. So for me, I am giving him credit for trying and not being afraid of being criticized if it didn't work. He knew, we all could predict, what people would say if it worked and what they would say if it didn't and he went for it! Kudos to him. 

 

Two questions. Is it possible that because Carolina said they will match, is it a done deal or is it possible they are negotiating for Montreal to sweeten the pot? My gut says it's done and they're just making Montreal wait, kind of a bit of payback. What do you think?

 

Second, I heard Pierre Mcguire on radio say that he thought Gardiner was a second pairing, not a first, and that if you slotted him correctly he would be a very good defenceman, a good quarterback on the pp, but if you slot him into the first pairing he might have some trouble. Thoughts??   

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Gardiner might be second-pair on a strong D team (not us), and first-pair on a weaker D team (uhhh ...). From what I have read, pairing him with Weber could work really well, whether they play as first or second pair.

 

It's possible there is some ongoing discussion with the Canes, but it's not very likely. We won't know for 100% certain until next Monday, though.

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For me he's a #3 or #4 defenseman on a very good team. In 6 games against Boston, The leafs had one 5 on 5 goal scored against while he was on the ice. Yet everyone remembers a single giveaway in game 7.  I'm pretty sure I read about the leafs record with Gardiner vs without last season. The difference was huge. I'm pretty sure his real value is being downplayed by a few untimely giveaways that resulted in goals. A top three of Weber, Petry, and Gardiner. With Mete, Juulsen, and Kulak rounding out the bottom looks very good to me.

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I read somewhere that Habs and Canes were not allowed to deal until the offer is declined or matched.  Is this true ?

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40 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

I read somewhere that Habs and Canes were not allowed to deal until the offer is declined or matched.  Is this true ?

Sure, just Habs cant use picks in another offer sheet, until this one is dead. I think is only catch.

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39 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

I read somewhere that Habs and Canes were not allowed to deal until the offer is declined or matched.  Is this true ?

 

Aho cannot be traded for one year. This is in the CBA. But the CBA does not have any restriction on any other trades between the two teams.

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50 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

I read somewhere that Habs and Canes were not allowed to deal until the offer is declined or matched.  Is this true ?

Carolina and Montreal can still work out a trade for Aho up until Carolina signs the offer sheet.   Then Aho cannot be traded for 1 year.

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49 minutes ago, DON said:

Sure, just Habs cant use picks in another offer sheet, until this one is dead. I think is only catch.

 

48 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

Aho cannot be traded for one year. This is in the CBA. But the CBA does not have any restriction on any other trades between the two teams.

 

39 minutes ago, kaos said:

Carolina and Montreal can still work out a trade for Aho up until Carolina signs the offer sheet.   Then Aho cannot be traded for 1 year.

Alright,  so  I read something else.  That any trade between the two teams would be impossible until the situation is resolved.  And that Aho couldn't be dealt for one year after he signs.  Only the last part seems true. 


So, nothing would prevent Bergevin to propose a deal that would make the Canes not match the offersheet ?

For example :   IN ADDITION to  1st-2nd-3rd  in 2020,  offer  MTL 2021 1st pick + another MTL 2020 3rd rounder   for some sorts of 5th round pick or a bad contract (if they have any) AND the obligation to not match the offersheet.


An offer that is bigger than  1st-2nd-3rd  but less than 4 x 1st picks,  with the same salary structure.

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Montreal and Carolina cannot make a trade directly involving Aho.

 

Carolina would have to decline to match and Montreal then sends assets for something else.

 

Like Suzuki, Juulsen, and a pick for a 5th rounder. No Aho in the deal. 

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13 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said:

Montreal and Carolina cannot make a trade directly involving Aho.

 

Carolina would have to decline to match and Montreal then sends assets for something else.

 

Like Suzuki, Juulsen, and a pick for a 5th rounder. No Aho in the deal. 

yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. 

 

But without sending a good prospect.  Otherwise, #### it.

There is probably something in the rules that prevent  trading  a 1st pick vs a 7th pick for no reason though.

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57 minutes ago, kaos said:

Carolina and Montreal can still work out a trade for Aho up until Carolina signs the offer sheet.   Then Aho cannot be traded for 1 year.

 

This part, no. Once the player has signed the offer sheet, even if the team has not responded to it yet, they cannot trade the rights to the player.

 

Any deal would have to be separate/additional to the offer sheet.

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I don't think there's any big reason to be disgusted with MB for attempting the offer sheet. But that said, the fact is it did not work.

 

All we know for sure right now is that MB has in no way improved a team that failed to make the playoffs last season. Anyone praising MB for "trying but failing" is manifesting the kind of Ballard Leafs mentality that has all too frequently infected the Habs' fanbase IMHO.

 

However, there are still several weeks before the season starts and other possible avenues for improving the team. It is therefore premature to declare the entire off-season a failure. It is, rather, a failure up to this point.

 

 

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9 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I don't think there's any big reason to be disgusted with MB for attempting the offer sheet. But that said, the fact is it did not work.

 

All we know for sure right now is that MB has in no way improved a team that failed to make the playoffs last season. Anyone praising MB for "trying but failing" is manifesting the kind of Ballard Leafs mentality that has all too frequently infected the Habs' fanbase IMHO.

 

However, there are still several weeks before the season starts and other possible avenues for improving the team. It is therefore premature to declare the entire off-season a failure. It is, rather, a failure up to this point.

 

 

 

Exactly this.

 

MB has a lot of cap space to work with so lets see what he does from here.

 

That might be another offer sheet or that might be Gardiner +

 

If he does nothing then we should collectively rage but lets see what his response is.

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Problem for me is not that I mind the offer sheet, because I didn’t mind the parameters. It’s that I’m not a big fan of Gardiner if he’s the main fish left. Nothing to do with his game 7 giveaways. I just don’t like his speed or lack there of. I guess he would look good compared to our other left D but I’d wish for another answer myself. 

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51 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

If he does nothing then we should collectively rage but lets see what his response is.

By when? Pacioretty was dealt Sept 10th last year and seems to of worked out well.

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Problem for me is not that I mind the offer sheet, because I didn’t mind the parameters. It’s that I’m not a big fan of Gardiner if he’s the main fish left. Nothing to do with his game 7 giveaways. I just don’t like his speed or lack there of. I guess he would look good compared to our other left D but I’d wish for another answer myself. 

 

It's pretty slim pickings for LD in this year's UFA crop.

 

Gostisbehere seems to be available but we don't know at what cost.

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1 hour ago, DON said:

By when? Pacioretty was dealt Sept 10th last year and seems to of worked out well.

 

Good question. One could always say, ‘well, we’re a bubble team, we can afford to wait for the best deal because we’re competitive.’ This is true to an extent, but the longer the season grinds on, the less margin of error you give your team. Also the odds increase of being forced into a desperation play if you incur a major injury or two. We should demand to see significant roster improvement by early season at the very latest.

 

I do think there is a decent possibility we’ll end up sitting on millions in cap space again, and that the Aho move will indeed be revealed to have been a what-the-hell painless long-shot partly designed as a smokescreen to justify inaction. ‘Hey, we tried.’  And this will probably be satisfactory to a good chunk of the fan base. 

 

EDIT: just saw the Chiarot signing. I remember predicting low cost patch up jobs at LD. Lo and behold, Mr Risk Averse strikes again.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Lo and behold, Mr Risk Averse strikes again.

 

The issue with Gardiner seems to be his back injuries and the risk of recurrence. Do you think that's a good risk, for five-plus years? Having a $6M+ player on LTIR for years would be almost as bad as the Alzner contract.

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