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Habs sign Sebastian Aho to offer sheet


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I don't think Hab29 is alone in his frustration with MB. MB track record in the off season has been really poor with the exception of last year. Last year he did an amazing job and got great value back in the trades.

 

So when he signs a couple of depth players it does raise red flags that this is the MB we all know and last year was a one off.

 

I do think and have posted as such that we need to give MB the benefit of the doubt for now. We have time and cap space so lets see what he does with it.

 

I also posted that if he does nothing else and we should rage. With our prospect pool, cap space and picks, we should be aggressive and add player(s) that we need.

 

I hope he comes through

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The bottom line is no one got played.  Bergevin tried to get a player with a front loaded offer sheet knowing full well that there was a good possibility the offer could be matched.  He risked noth

How does he look stronger, almost every analyst has ridiculed the amount offered by Montreal.  Craig Button called it laughable and there was no way that it won’t be matched by Carolina.  Any logical

His PR team is spinning the situation.  If you want to believe that's 100% the truth and no PR spin... that's your choice.. but hey, I've got some great real estate in Brooklyn and Florida that I'd al

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I don't think Hab29 is alone in his frustration with MB. MB track record in the off season has been really poor with the exception of last year. Last year he did an amazing job and got great value back in the trades.

 

So when he signs a couple of depth players it does raise red flags that this is the MB we all know and last year was a one off.

 

I do think and have posted as such that we need to give MB the benefit of the doubt for now. We have time and cap space so lets see what he does with it.

 

I also posted that if he does nothing else and we should rage. With our prospect pool, cap space and picks, we should be aggressive and add player(s) that we need.

 

I hope he comes through

 

There is balance in your post.  Its fine to not like MB on the whole, but its a whole different conversation to not give him any credit either.  You can come out on the negative side of the equation without showing bias. 

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9 hours ago, huzer said:

But don’t you think you just answered your own question. If late first rounders rarely turn into 80-90 pt players, why would they gamble on 4 first rounders being better than the player they have and not matching? I still think the only way the Canes may not have matched is a max payer contract. I guess to some, Aho is worth that.

 

They might well have matched that, too.

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Unless you have some inside information or some hidden recording device, it's hard to fault any GM for not signing Free Agents.

 

There is just too much that goes into a decision on where to sign by a FA to blame MB for not landing one..

 

Money, term, taxes, media, family, weather, etc. etc. etc.

 

I can guarantee there have been several Free Agents over the year that MB has tried to sign and lost out on because the FA has chosen to go somewhere else..

If he was dropping the ball in trades then I would get the criticism, but he is above average in that category.

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Was Montreal Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin fully committed to submitting a hostile bid to Sebastian Aho?

The journalist Elliotte Friedman had this reflection when he saw the point of the press following the announcement of July 1.

 
"If you look at Bergevin's speeches in recent years when things were more difficult for the CH, you notice that he's really getting engaged when he has to defend the organization and his own decisions," Friedman said in a statement. last episode of the podcast "31 Thoughts".

The Sportsnet informant did not feel the same when Bergevin responded to media questions about Aho. 

"He was not like that. He was not as emotional as usual and it makes me wonder if he really thought it was the best idea [the hostile offer], "said Friedman, taking good care of specify that he is not a professional psychologist.

 

The Senators Lesson

According to several experts, and even the CEO of the Carolina Hurricanes, Bergevin's attempt was not as aggressive as one would expect from a hostile bid.We will remember for a long time the monstrous contract that Shea Weber signed with the Philadelphia Flyers at the time (14 years, $ 110 million).

"I just felt that his heart was not entirely there," said Friedman. And that is why Canadians do not go to the choice of four 1 st round or second level in the scale of compensation.

"In the end, even if he got the player, I think he was worried about compensation. There is so much parity in the NHL today.

"Did the Senators think they would be in their current position when they acquired Matt Duchene after playing the seventh game in the Eastern Final? Not chance. And I think it terrifies people. "

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1 hour ago, Habber31 said:

I apologize for the gargantuan post. It's translated from French. 

 

Ok, 

 

My question though is that if the original source is Freidman and the 31 thoughts podcast, why would you take a french translation of what he said on that podcast, and then translate it back to English?  Why the double translation?

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46 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Ok, 

 

My question though is that if the original source is Freidman and the 31 thoughts podcast, why would you take a french translation of what he said on that podcast, and then translate it back to English?  Why the double translation?

It's from the TVA website 

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52 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Ok, 

 

My question though is that if the original source is Freidman and the 31 thoughts podcast, why would you take a french translation of what he said on that podcast, and then translate it back to English?  Why the double translation?

It’s on the sportsnet July 11, 31 thoughts podcast. I haven’t seen in print. Habber31 probably picked it up on a French site that transcribed a translated version.  Just cause you may not have heard it doesn’t mean you have to doubt someone.

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23 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

It's from the TVA website 

 

I get that, but why wouldn't you get what Friedmann actually said.... instead of having Friedmann's words translated into french and then translated back to English again.  Something can get lost in translation.

Here is the actual podcast.  Its right near the start. 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/podcasts/31-thoughts-podcast/july-11-2019-nazem-kadri-vetoed-trade-calgary/

 

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13 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It’s on the sportsnet July 11, 31 thoughts podcast. I haven’t seen in print. Habber31 probably picked it up on a French site that transcribed a translated version.  Just cause you may not have heard it doesn’t mean you have to doubt someone.

 

I'm not doubting anyone. 

I heard the podcast myself. 

I'm saying there are always problems when you translate something to a new language.... so translating this twice means its not the same as the original. 

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Dude, what are you talking about. I read the French site, before I read it on the Sportsnet website.

 

Why do you care, honestly.... Well I know why you care, it's because the podcast goes against what you believe, so you're just trying to find any dig you can. 

 

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37 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

Dude, what are you talking about. I read the French site, before I read it on the Sportsnet website.

 

Why do you care, honestly.... Well I know why you care, it's because the podcast goes against what you believe, so you're just trying to find any dig you can. 

 

 

No, 

 

I care because I like accuracy.  We should look at what Friedmann actually said if its available, not a double translation of it.  Basically its a game of telephone here. 

 

Take a paragraph in english, put it through google translate to french.  Then take the new paragraph, put it through google translate from french back to English.  What you get is not the same as what you started with.  This is where inaccuracy happens, and it doesn't matter if its google or a bilingual speaker translating, everytime you translate something, something gets "lost in translation" so originals are always more accurate. 

 

And I didn't attack you personally, i merely said that you can post something that hasn't been translated twice... but if you want to attack me about that, I take offence to it. 

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On 7/10/2019 at 5:06 AM, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I don't think Hab29 is alone in his frustration with MB. MB track record in the off season has been really poor with the exception of last year. Last year he did an amazing job and got great value back in the trades.

 

So when he signs a couple of depth players it does raise red flags that this is the MB we all know and last year was a one off.

 

I do think and have posted as such that we need to give MB the benefit of the doubt for now. We have time and cap space so lets see what he does with it.

 

I also posted that if he does nothing else and we should rage. With our prospect pool, cap space and picks, we should be aggressive and add player(s) that we need.

 

I hope he comes through

 

Excellent post! This is pretty much where I'm going from.

 

Too many fans, IMHO, seem prepared to let management off the hook all the time. Being OK is good enough. "Well, at least they tried." It's as though quite a few fans seem to have internalized the idea that asking the Montreal Canadiens to be an elite franchise is simply impossible in today's NHL. For some reason. That, or else they think the Habs are the hockey version of what the license plates used to call Saskatchewan: "tomorrow country." That is: oh, wait until our prospects come up; in 3-4 years we'll be really good! Not with this kind of appetite for deferred gratification, we won't.

 

But as you say, summer ain't over yet.

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6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Excellent post! This is pretty much where I'm going from.

 

Too many fans, IMHO, seem prepared to let management off the hook all the time. Being OK is good enough. "Well, at least they tried." It's as though quite a few fans seem to have internalized the idea that asking the Montreal Canadiens to be an elite franchise is simply impossible in today's NHL. For some reason. That, or else they think the Habs are the hockey version of what the license plates used to call Saskatchewan: "tomorrow country." That is: oh, wait until our prospects come up; in 3-4 years we'll be really good! Not with this kind of appetite for deferred gratification, we won't.

 

But as you say, summer ain't over yet.

I don’t get the attitude of many just being satisfied with being a bubble team and than feeling anything can happen in the playoffs.

last year some of my friends had asked me if I was happy with the habs in late October/early November and I told them I had yet to watch any hockey - just tired off the same old promising start and than the usual collapse or fade off to end the season.

the only thing that got me some hope for next year is when I heard about Poehling’s in the last game of the season.  I’m not expecting him to score anywhere near that pace, but if he can come and even be half the player Wheeler turned out to be it would be promising.  But there’s been a long string of promising young players that started well and faded into oblivion, or got horrible injuries - Zednik,  savage, Higgins, Ak46. Et el.

 

the Aho rumours also really got me excited and hoping we were going to make a real push for  next year  - until I saw what the offer was. 

 

Bottom line is, that given the age of our two top players the habs either have to go all in within the next two years, or move them. Can’t keep trying to push forward with one foot in the water and the other on the shore.

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Kelly had a good article in the gazette(I know he's biased), but he had commented on how having Price and Weber is becoming more and more irrelevant. Subban should have been traded for younger talent. The team wasn't/ isn't in a position to acquire a player of Weber's age. He's a great player, the timelines just make no sense. 

 

This g.m just cannot pull the trigger on a trade that helps the team, without sacarafising the core. He's never traded a first round pick, in his entire tenure in Montreal 

 

At this point Bergevin should be throwing what ever Vegas wants at Gusev( which sounded like a second and a prospect). Gusev may just be the x-factor, that finally helps this team's powerplay get rolling. Which let's not forget, was a big reason why Montreal didn't sneak into the playoffs. 

 

It really feels like this team is witholding even more picks this year, because the draft is held in Montreal, next June. 

 

 

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I have not read the Gazette article. but I want to comment on whether the CH should be trading away some picks and prospects to "go all in" during Price's cup window: I do not agree with this.

I think that Weber will be more of a supplemental player than a core player if/when the CH is contending for the cup. Hopefully that happens sooner than later so that Price can win a few games for the CH during a cup run. But to me, "the cup contending team" is the young core of mid-to-low 20-year-olds that will take us there.

That is why I a more inclined to trade a Petry at his highest trade value than a Weber on his declining years to go get the missing pieces.

 

Aho would have been an idea part of that future :)

 

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37 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I have not read the Gazette article. but I want to comment on whether the CH should be trading away some picks and prospects to "go all in" during Price's cup window: I do not agree with this.

I think that Weber will be more of a supplemental player than a core player if/when the CH is contending for the cup. Hopefully that happens sooner than later so that Price can win a few games for the CH during a cup run. But to me, "the cup contending team" is the young core of mid-to-low 20-year-olds that will take us there.

That is why I a more inclined to trade a Petry at his highest trade value than a Weber on his declining years to go get the missing pieces.

 

Aho would have been an idea part of that future :)

 

In today’s NHL, can you really afford to have a $8m of cap space tied up in a “supplement player”???

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10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I don’t get the attitude of many just being satisfied with being a bubble team and than feeling anything can happen in the playoffs.

last year some of my friends had asked me if I was happy with the habs in late October/early November and I told them I had yet to watch any hockey - just tired off the same old promising start and than the usual collapse or fade off to end the season.

the only thing that got me some hope for next year is when I heard about Poehling’s in the last game of the season.  I’m not expecting him to score anywhere near that pace, but if he can come and even be half the player Wheeler turned out to be it would be promising.  But there’s been a long string of promising young players that started well and faded into oblivion, or got horrible injuries - Zednik,  savage, Higgins, Ak46. Et el.

 

the Aho rumours also really got me excited and hoping we were going to make a real push for  next year  - until I saw what the offer was. 

 

Bottom line is, that given the age of our two top players the habs either have to go all in within the next two years, or move them. Can’t keep trying to push forward with one foot in the water and the other on the shore.

 

The boldfaced parts I especially endorse. Too many fans seem to be happy with endless deferral. "Oh just wait until Player X comes up or develops." I've been hearing that for 25 years. Ribeiro...Fatendresse...Bulis...Zednik...Komisarek...Higgins...Kosty...Price...Subban...Galchenyuk...Tinordi...as you imply, the people who say "just wait 3-4 years!!" are forgetting that in that time-frame our two best players will be close to retirement. And incidentally, as far as I know, there is no one in the system who projects to be a player on the level of Price or even Weber.

 

When MB says he doesn't believe in a window, I think what he really means is, "we think we can build a team that reliably makes the playoffs," and he hopes we ignore the fact that there is a large difference between making the playoffs and being a bona-fide, heavy-duty Cup contender. "Make the playoffs and anything can happen" is NOT the attitude of elite NHL teams. They are comparing themselves to each other, not to bubble teams.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I have not read the Gazette article. but I want to comment on whether the CH should be trading away some picks and prospects to "go all in" during Price's cup window: I do not agree with this.

I think that Weber will be more of a supplemental player than a core player if/when the CH is contending for the cup. Hopefully that happens sooner than later so that Price can win a few games for the CH during a cup run. But to me, "the cup contending team" is the young core of mid-to-low 20-year-olds that will take us there.

That is why I a more inclined to trade a Petry at his highest trade value than a Weber on his declining years to go get the missing pieces.

 

Aho would have been an idea part of that future :)

 

Tick tock

 

I've heard the same shit before; when Subban and Pacioretty were entering their primes, Galchenyuk was a "blooming star" and we just "had to wait a few years for players to evolve" ... How did that work out? 

 

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30 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

Tick tock

 

I've heard the same shit before; when Subban and Pacioretty were entering their primes, Galchenyuk was a "blooming star" and we just "had to wait a few years for players to evolve" ... How did that work out? 

 

Not well, how is working elsewhere? There is no guaranty that it will work; I am just saying that it is my preference to continue path: not because I am sure it will work, but because I believe it is more likely to.

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

In today’s NHL, can you really afford to have a $8m of cap space tied up in a “supplement player”???

Can you: yes, the CH is doing so.

 

Should you: it depends, in the CH's case it was the price to pay to avoid being locked-in a no-movement clause with a player who has been deemed tradeable twice... without too many ex-teammates crying a river for the loss.

 

<<Insert arguments that will be ignored>>

 

Now, how can the CH improve to become a cup-contender in the near future?

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

Now, how can the CH improve to become a cup-contender in the near future?

 

First off, define "near future" - to me, based on the current club, that means 3 years from now.

1) Recognize that there is nothing wrong with a couple years of losing to rebuild - there is nothing wrong with a full reset if the plan and culture is there to build off it.

2)  Create a first class player development system  

3) Improve on the scouting and drafting

4) Hire the management and coaching staff that have the tools to accomplish the above - the current team is not who we should trust to accomplish this - anyone who thinks otherwise is ignoring the results - be rational not emotional.

5) Trade current assets to facilitate the youth movement - trade high-cap stars for picks/prospects, then trade for guys who have 2-3 year cap "weights" in return for more picks/prospects, then use cap room to acquire assets that could become trade deadline candidates to contenders within 1-2 years - to this to get more picks/prospects.  Build the pipeline as rapidly as possible and align prospect arrivals with a lot of available cap room.  Use all the picks to trade up to improve on the ceiling of the picks/prospects being acquired - stop trading down to acquire more noodles to throw at the wall hoping they pan out - this isn't baseball.  With luck the team gets a couple top 5 picks of their own as they rebuild AND they can use excess picks to trade up and get, ideally, a couple more top 5 picks within 2-3 years...

6) At the end of those 2-3 years, as prospects start to make the club and perform, go harder back into the FA market to acquire the 2-3 stars needed to put you over the top.  Don't play for mediocrity and "making the playoffs".  Winning consistently in sports is about managing diminishing returns - both managing the diminishing returns of aging stars (don't be caught sentimentally attached to high payroll players) and understanding that winning consistently means spending time/money on all facets of the organization and being rigorous on measuring/improving always and that, to be at the top of the game, it costs a lot more dollars to get only incremental improvements.

7) In 5-6 years you start "re-tooling" by trading aging stars for more picks/prospects and continue to keep the prospect pipeline full.  Use that cap room to re-sign in-house "stars" and/or FA's to compliment them depending on the cap at the time.

8) You gotta be lucky along the way.  But your luck improves if you do the right things, at the right times and for the right reasons.

 

 

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On 2019-07-16 at 2:43 PM, Zowpeb said:

 

First off, define "near future" - to me, based on the current club, that means 3 years from now.

1) Recognize that there is nothing wrong with a couple years of losing to rebuild - there is nothing wrong with a full reset if the plan and culture is there to build off it.

2)  Create a first class player development system  

3) Improve on the scouting and drafting

4) Hire the management and coaching staff that have the tools to accomplish the above - the current team is not who we should trust to accomplish this - anyone who thinks otherwise is ignoring the results - be rational not emotional.

5) Trade current assets to facilitate the youth movement - trade high-cap stars for picks/prospects, then trade for guys who have 2-3 year cap "weights" in return for more picks/prospects, then use cap room to acquire assets that could become trade deadline candidates to contenders within 1-2 years - to this to get more picks/prospects.  Build the pipeline as rapidly as possible and align prospect arrivals with a lot of available cap room.  Use all the picks to trade up to improve on the ceiling of the picks/prospects being acquired - stop trading down to acquire more noodles to throw at the wall hoping they pan out - this isn't baseball.  With luck the team gets a couple top 5 picks of their own as they rebuild AND they can use excess picks to trade up and get, ideally, a couple more top 5 picks within 2-3 years...

6) At the end of those 2-3 years, as prospects start to make the club and perform, go harder back into the FA market to acquire the 2-3 stars needed to put you over the top.  Don't play for mediocrity and "making the playoffs".  Winning consistently in sports is about managing diminishing returns - both managing the diminishing returns of aging stars (don't be caught sentimentally attached to high payroll players) and understanding that winning consistently means spending time/money on all facets of the organization and being rigorous on measuring/improving always and that, to be at the top of the game, it costs a lot more dollars to get only incremental improvements.

7) In 5-6 years you start "re-tooling" by trading aging stars for more picks/prospects and continue to keep the prospect pipeline full.  Use that cap room to re-sign in-house "stars" and/or FA's to compliment them depending on the cap at the time.

8) You gotta be lucky along the way.  But your luck improves if you do the right things, at the right times and for the right reasons.

 

 

Sounds more work than I was expecting, you are probably closer to what should happen

 

I still dream that Carey gets hot, Weber plays like a man on a mission and Drouin scores 40 in a second line with Kotka

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