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Habs sign Sebastian Aho to offer sheet


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27 minutes ago, DON said:

So $10.4 x 7yrs + Two 1st, 1 2nd 1 3rd should do it eh.

 

It would mess with them cap wise... they might be able to match, but it would effect their team. 

 

You need to go 5 years though. 

 

7 years makes it 4 firsts.... due to the rule that the total money is divided by 5 for compensation purposes on 6 or 7 year offer sheets. 

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The bottom line is no one got played.  Bergevin tried to get a player with a front loaded offer sheet knowing full well that there was a good possibility the offer could be matched.  He risked noth

How does he look stronger, almost every analyst has ridiculed the amount offered by Montreal.  Craig Button called it laughable and there was no way that it won’t be matched by Carolina.  Any logical

His PR team is spinning the situation.  If you want to believe that's 100% the truth and no PR spin... that's your choice.. but hey, I've got some great real estate in Brooklyn and Florida that I'd al

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The next team to target would be Tampa... with Vasi and Sergachev needing contracts next year..

 

Would they match 10.4 ?? Probably. But it hurts them in the future.

I'd do 5 x 10.4 for Point.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Commandant said:

It would mess with them cap wise... they might be able to match, but it would effect their team. 

 

You need to go 5 years though. 

 

7 years makes it 4 firsts.... due to the rule that the total money is divided by 5 for compensation purposes on 6 or 7 year offer sheets. 

 

And five years is actually worse for the team, as the player gets UFA status more quickly.

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I still say #### with Tampa's Cap (Point) and then the Leafs (Marner). 

use the offer sheet as a weapon. 

Leafs probably have room with the moves they’ve made now, even if we made an offer where we would give up 4 picks.

point is a possibility and while I like him, I’m not as high on him as an on Aho and Marner.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

It would mess with them cap wise... they might be able to match, but it would effect their team. 

 

You need to go 5 years though. 

 

7 years makes it 4 firsts.... due to the rule that the total money is divided by 5 for compensation purposes on 6 or 7 year offer sheets. 

We need to focus on offer sheets where we actually have a chance of getting the player - not just on trying to mess up their cap space.  

 

The entire issue issue I had with the Aho offer sheet was that it really had no chance of succeeding.  Button called it laughable.

 

its all fine trying to mess up an opponents cap space, if you can actually benefit from it.  As it is, the only playoff team from the east, that got worse is Columbus.  On the other hand, Florida got a lot better by addressing their biggest need.  So far all we’ve done is got Kincaid.  Not nearly enough!!!

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19 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Leafs probably have room with the moves they’ve made now, even if we made an offer where we would give up 4 picks.

point is a possibility and while I like him, I’m not as high on him as an on Aho and Marner.

 

Leafs got the room due to Horton's LTIR. But the past few weeks have been ugly with the media. I wouldn't be a happy camper if I was Mitch.

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15 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Leafs got the room due to Horton's LTIR. But the past few weeks have been ugly with the media. I wouldn't be a happy camper if I was Mitch.

He’s a big boy (ok a big boy in a little boys body ?).  From all I’ve read he loves the leafs and ultimately wants to stay there.  He just wants to ensure he gets a Matthews like deal.

 

As much as it pains me to say it, the leafs actually improved their defence and got rid of dead weight.  We got Kincaid.

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All I'm seeing from the Waddell and Dundon quotes about the offer sheet is, "I'm not owned! I'm not owned!" They're pissed while trying to play it off as a win. 

 

But they will match it. Oh well, good try, but moving on now what are you gonna do with 12+ million in cap space, Marc?

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28 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We need to focus on offer sheets where we actually have a chance of getting the player - not just on trying to mess up their cap space.  

 

The entire issue issue I had with the Aho offer sheet was that it really had no chance of succeeding.  Button called it laughable.

 

its all fine trying to mess up an opponents cap space, if you can actually benefit from it.  As it is, the only playoff team from the east, that got worse is Columbus.  On the other hand, Florida got a lot better by addressing their biggest need.  So far all we’ve done is got Kincaid.  Not nearly enough!!!

 

You have a chance of getting the player on these offer sheets.  Screwing up cap space is what still happens if they match. 

 

There is no downside if you want the player and its a rival team.  You either get Brayden Point for 10.4 million (two 1sts, a 2nd, a 3rd), or you screw up Tampa's cap.  There is no lose to this. 

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26 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

He’s a big boy (ok a big boy in a little boys body ?).  From all I’ve read he loves the leafs and ultimately wants to stay there.  He just wants to ensure he gets a Matthews like deal.

 

As much as it pains me to say it, the leafs actually improved their defence and got rid of dead weight.  We got Kincaid.

 

Meh, the Leafs lose Jake Gardiner and get the Right Handed equivalent to Jake Gardiner in Tyson Barrie, while downgrading from Kadri to Kerfoot. 

I don't see that as much better

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20 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

All I'm seeing from the Waddell and Dundon quotes about the offer sheet is, "I'm not owned! I'm not owned!" They're pissed while trying to play it off as a win. 

 

But they will match it. Oh well, good try, but moving on now what are you gonna do with 12+ million in cap space, Marc?

He is going to do the something with the 12mil that he did with the 9mil over the last 2 years nothing. Honestly I think Bergevin knew they were going to match it which is why he didn't want to go the extra draft pick. I mean what's an extra pick and 900k? He wanted Duchene and lost out and Aho was just to keep the fans and media quite when he didn't sign any big name free agent's. I think clearing more cap space was so we can resign Domi and Kotkaniemi. 

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14 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Meh, the Leafs lose Jake Gardiner and get the Right Handed equivalent to Jake Gardiner in Tyson Barrie, while downgrading from Kadri to Kerfoot. 

I don't see that as much better

I see Ceci as an upgrade over Zaitsev.  Kadri they had to move after two consecutive idiotic penalties/suspensions in the playoffs.

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15 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I see Ceci as an upgrade over Zaitsev.  Kadri they had to move after two consecutive idiotic penalties/suspensions in the playoffs.

 

I dont see Ceci as an upgrade. 

 

Whether they had to move him or not, Kerfoot is a downgrade, and Barrie just replaces Gardiner who is gone... he plays the other side so that balances them better. 

Still gonna have issues though as Ceci, Barrie will both be UFA next year (if the one year 4.5 million contract rumour for Ceci is believed), and their cap situation won't get better. 

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12 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I dont see Ceci as an upgrade. 

 

Whether they had to move him or not, Kerfoot is a downgrade, and Barrie just replaces Gardiner who is gone... he plays the other side so that balances them better. 

Still gonna have issues though as Ceci, Barrie will both be UFA next year (if the one year 4.5 million contract rumour for Ceci is believed), and their cap situation won't get better. 

 

Muzzin will be UFA next offseason as well I believe.  

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31 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

You have a chance of getting the player on these offer sheets.  Screwing up cap space is what still happens if they match. 

 

There is no downside if you want the player and its a rival team.  You either get Brayden Point for 10.4 million (two 1sts, a 2nd, a 3rd), or you screw up Tampa's cap.  There is no lose to this. 

Does Bergevin have it in him to piss off Brisbois also? Or is it time to simply sign Gardiner or trade for a LH d-man and call it a summer.

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20 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

I dont see Ceci as an upgrade. 

 

Whether they had to move him or not, Kerfoot is a downgrade, and Barrie just replaces Gardiner who is gone... he plays the other side so that balances them better. 

Still gonna have issues though as Ceci, Barrie will both be UFA next year (if the one year 4.5 million contract rumour for Ceci is believed), and their cap situation won't get better. 

Me neither. He’s a train wreck who will be paid 4.5 million at the minimum. I think the long game for TO is cap hell. Can they even afford Barrie for 7 million next season?

Kerfoot will get 3.5 million at the very least this season 

Muzzin will want 5/6 next season

Marner at this point must not be wanting to leave money on the board... good for him....

 

This team will have to retool again next season all the while depleting their assets.

 

Habs do have a lot of cash a lot of picks and some good young kids...  at this point shaw moving opened the door to Suzuki or poehling more likely making the team. That’s a good thing. I still think Evans is a sleeper in our pool of depth this season.

 

Even Gardiner.. Do we want him at 7/8 million. Surely he has 6.8 million on the table 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Chris said:

Or the habs could get a better drafting team, GM and make smarter contract and player decisions. 

 

Honestly, I haven't heard too much negative about our drafting over the last few years. The other elements probably could indeed be improved.

 

One of the things about having a deep prospect pool and picks is that you're supposed to be able to trade some combo of prospects/picks to address areas of organizational weakness. Still waiting for MB to do that re: LD.

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I think drafting is average, trades are about 50/50, good moves and bad UFA has been pretty bad, 

 

Sergachev, Poehling, Caughfield all fell into the habs lap, 

 

2nd rounders they have been pretty good at, 

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Bergevin hasn't done anything in free agency since he has been here, he has only signed Alzner to a over priced over term contract. This team is built through the draft and trades. So you can't say that we don't draft good, over the last 2 years since Bergevin realized the way of the new NHL we have been drafting players that fit it. You will start to see the results of it in 3-4 years from now.

 The problem is we're wasting Price's  prime and what's left in the tank of Weber.

 

We need to figure out why  it is that big name players in the  prime of their careers don't want to sign here. Then we need to fix it.

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I would rather have the Habs sign no one then take on a contract everyone will regret in a couple years. They have a strong pipeline of young players, Price still has quite a few good years left, Weber maybe 2 or 3. No question they need a LD. I am not sold on Gardiner. If he was that good he would have been signed by now.

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32 minutes ago, Chris said:

I think drafting is average, trades are about 50/50, good moves and bad UFA has been pretty bad, 

 

Sergachev, Poehling, Caughfield all fell into the habs lap,

 

Wait. We were just lucky drafting those guys? And all the teams that drafted ahead of us, that did not pick those guys, they were just unlucky?

 

Unless you are picking first, your choices will always depend on what the teams ahead of you did with theirs. But the ones you list above, the Habs made strong choices. And our prospect pool is now ranked much better than it has been for a long time.

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4 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

Wait. We were just lucky drafting those guys? And all the teams that drafted ahead of us, that did not pick those guys, they were just unlucky?

 

Unless you are picking first, your choices will always depend on what the teams ahead of you did with theirs. But the ones you list above, the Habs made strong choices. And our prospect pool is now ranked much better than it has been for a long time.

 

Yep. As cynical as I am about Bergevin, I don't think you can blame him for things that go wrong and simultaneously deny him credit for things that go right. The Habs' prospect pool is generally well-regarded. That's on him, just as much as wasting the prime years of Price and Weber, and turning a strong inherited core into garbage that missed the playoffs three of four years, are on him.

 

How good that pool actually turns out to be is another question. Right now everyone acts like Poehling is Bo Horvat, Suzuki a can't-miss kid, and Caufield a guaranteed 30-40 goal man. And all of this may come to pass. But I remember when Komisarek was a sure-fire elite shutdown defender, Higgins was certain to become a star, and Kostitsyn an elite power forward. Anyone singing Bergevin's Hossanahs because "in 3-4 years this team will be pretty good" is overlooking the uncertainty involved in almost all prospects, as well as the declining return on veterans over time. This is why I am not a Bergevin fan; I judge him by his actual body of work, not by optimistic projections of what his future accomplishments might turn out to be if all goes as well as possible.

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I find it hilarious that people are scoffing at the attempt in our own market, this was the best form of an over payment we can handle, structured in a way that was least convenient for the opposing team to handle. Any offersheet always has a way better chance of failure than success unless you make a ridiculous offer that will hurt you more than your counterpart. You honestly think us giving 10mill+, with the important players we have to sign in the next 2 years was the way to go? Let's go on and be a cap strapped team by 2021, making sacrificial lambs out of who knows who to try to make it work, while also having no important draft picks left to alleviate some of the debacle? Yeah great idea guys, lets just keep on going with the irrational, not big picture oriented plans of attack. I'm sure that won't make the situation a boatload worse than coming out of this empty handed and no worse than we were June 30th, right?

 

Trying to say we didn't make the poison pill poisonous enough is a flawed statement in its every form. What is the use of making the poison pill so vile, that when they refuse to take it, and force you to take it, you're the one who dies? There is a reason why all offer sheets have been matched, except for one, and that one worked out about as well as leaving the steaks on the table while the dog is unattended, for the team who took it. We took a measured approach which would have allowed us to get the player without messing with our cap to catastrophically in the coming years, while also tightening the vice in the area which we felt they were weakest, organizational dollars. 

 

It didn't go our way, oh well, a nice try none the less, let their owner puff his chest about money not being an issue while getting 21 million arena gate all year long. Let him act like he doesn't already owe millions elsewhere and that he won't need to likely get a loan in the next few days to deal with the first 11+million dollar cheque they owe to the kid who wanted to go elsewhere and signed a contract elsewhere, like that's not going to sting. We move on, an attempt at an improvement was made and it didn't pan out, there are still many avenue's available to improve this team, none will likely impact the roster as much as the addition of Aho, but improvements are still within reach.

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16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

How good that pool actually turns out to be is another question. Right now everyone acts like Poehling is Bo Horvat, Suzuki a can't-miss kid, and Caufield a guaranteed 30-40 goal man. And all of this may come to pass. But I remember when Komisarek was a sure-fire elite shutdown defender, Higgins was certain to become a star, and Kostitsyn an elite power forward. Anyone singing Bergevin's Hossanahs because "in 3-4 years this team will be pretty good" is overlooking the uncertainty involved in almost all prospects, as well as the declining return on veterans over time.

 

Yes. Poehling, Suzuki, Romanov and Caufield look promising, but they are not in the pros yet, so still far from 100% certainty. Even Kotkaniemi, who had a very promising 18yo rookie season, is still far from a sure thing. You have to draft well, and then develop well, and yet it might all turn out badly in the end.

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