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IN THE HEARTS OF MEN

Stuff moved from the Rumour thread that isn't rumours

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15 minutes ago, DON said:

Is that you Bill Cosby?:o

 

:D

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Not much in the "actual" (for Commandant) rumour category lately...hockeybuzz here i come.

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11 hours ago, DON said:

Not much in the "actual" (for Commandant) rumour category lately...hockeybuzz here i come.

Goodluck

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RIP Don's sanity

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MB will be graded by his total body of work, just like everybody before him. I do believe there is some reason for optimism.  At the end of the day, the success of the Montreal Canadiens will define him.

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1 hour ago, BlueKross said:

MB will be graded by his total body of work, just like everybody before him. I do believe there is some reason for optimism.  At the end of the day, the success of the Montreal Canadiens will define him.

I think after 8 years on the job the lack of success should already been enough to define what Bergevin is.  A mediocre GM who has managed to hang onto his job because of where he was born and the language he speaks.  In any other market he would have been fired two or three years ago.

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think after 8 years on the job the lack of success should already been enough to define what Bergevin is.  A mediocre GM who has managed to hang onto his job because of where he was born and the language he speaks.  In any other market he would have been fired two or three years ago.

totally disagree.

He is an above average GM, that has won trades on years he has sucked at drafting and lately he has sucked at trades and won the drafting. He is doing an OK job, but is not top-8/quartile yet.

The next two seasons will determine if he is a perennial upper-average guy or a top GM.

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22 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think after 8 years on the job the lack of success should already been enough to define what Bergevin is.  A mediocre GM who has managed to hang onto his job because of where he was born and the language he speaks.  In any other market he would have been fired two or three years ago.

Ima not sure about that H29R :/

I've turned my outlook on MB a bit, maybe bcuz like you I feel he Bad at his job;

yet,

I see MB more as a HR recruiter now. Not CEO of the Team on the ice. In that sense he might be able to "save" his job (and face) a couple years longer. 

HR recruiter bcuz this way we can always say: "the kids are not ready." :(

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On 2019-07-24 at 6:08 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

where he was born and the language he speaks.

Your whining about this? Its written in stone isnt it and not gonna change anytime soon.

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The habs have fired plenty of french people over the years.  He doesnt keep his job cause he is french.  The issue is the pressure that the next guy be able to speak french too and that is a far bigger issue with the coach who gives 200 pressers a year than the GM who maybe gives 10.  Still If they fired Bergevin they could easily find another french speaker so I'm not buying that argument on keeping his job.

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The only reason they keep him on the job is Molson is an idiot that does not care about winning.  Everyone talks about free agents don't want to go to Montreal, the reason is players look to go to a team that can compete andhas a chance to win. That comes from the GM and Organization that is willing to take risks to win, MB does not have that reputation,  and he and Molson has turned a team with a winning tradition to an average to below average team over the past 8 years. 

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31 minutes ago, Richard09 said:

The only reason they keep him on the job is Molson is an idiot that does not care about winning.

 

Wow... just wow.

 

Do you really believe that the owner doesnt care about winning?  Every playoff game brings in 3million or more to the team.  A Stanley cup would have even bigger effects on the bottom line considering the merch they would sell.

 

The idea that an owner doesnt want to win?  It's such a stupid argument. 

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1 hour ago, Richard09 said:

That comes from the GM and Organization that is willing to take risks to win, MB does not have that reputation, 

 

Sean Gordon made a comment on Bergevin on his alternative-history analysis of Bergevin's trading record in the Athletic yesterday:

 

Quote

He's not been afraid to swing for the fences, that's for certain.

 

So at least he has a different view of Bergevin's willingness to take risks.

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1 hour ago, Richard09 said:

The only reason they keep him on the job is Molson is an idiot that does not care about winning.  Everyone talks about free agents don't want to go to Montreal, the reason is players look to go to a team that can compete andhas a chance to win. That comes from the GM and Organization that is willing to take risks to win, MB does not have that reputation,  and he and Molson has turned a team with a winning tradition to an average to below average team over the past 8 years. 

Well, that is quite a post.

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The GM needs to be best candidate, not just the best French candidate. Politics needs to take a back seat, at some point. 

 

images.jpeg

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50 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

Sean Gordon made a comment on Bergevin on his alternative-history analysis of Bergevin's trading record in the Athletic yesterday:

 

 

So at least he has a different view of Bergevin's willingness to take risks.

 

Yup, you can criticize the results. 


The idea that he hasn't been willing to take risks?  This is 100% false narrative.  No GM has made more trades, and no GM has made more major trades (top 6 fwds, top 4 dmen) then Bergevin in recent years.  Argue all day if its working or not, but don't try and tell me he isn't doing things. 

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15 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

 Politics needs to take a back seat, at some point.

Hahaha, too funny!

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6 hours ago, Richard09 said:

The only reason they keep him on the job is Molson is an idiot that does not care about winning.  Everyone talks about free agents don't want to go to Montreal, the reason is players look to go to a team that can compete andhas a chance to win. That comes from the GM and Organization that is willing to take risks to win, MB does not have that reputation,  and he and Molson has turned a team with a winning tradition to an average to below average team over the past 8 years. 

Not sure where you get the idea that MB inherited a team with winning tradition, that is ignoring the Houle and Gauthier years and most of the Gainey years

The CH has not had a winning tradition since the early 90s

 

MB changed the team from average to above average. That is a fact

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About two years ago, or post-subban trade, I was all for firing Bergevin. I mean I had zero desire to hold onto him. That, then the Alzner signing, a teeeerrrible terrible prospect pool, and the constant need to sign CHaracter guys who couldn’t skate. I really didn’t like MB.

 

Fast forward two years. The sting of the Subban trade has lessened, and it doesn’t seem as lopsided. He’s sent Alzner to the minors, the prospect pool is the best since pacioretty subban price and McDonaugh (and deeper) he seems to realize this league requires great skaters - MB has turned a page, and so have I. 

 

Im not saying I no longer criticize him, but I’m saying I recognize what he’s done recently, and if you ask me It’s a very good job. If the team regresses, I’ll change my mind, but right now I like the direction, so right now I like MB.

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20 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

About two years ago, or post-subban trade, I was all for firing Bergevin. I mean I had zero desire to hold onto him. That, then the Alzner signing, a teeeerrrible terrible prospect pool, and the constant need to sign CHaracter guys who couldn’t skate. I really didn’t like MB.

 

Fast forward two years. The sting of the Subban trade has lessened, and it doesn’t seem as lopsided. He’s sent Alzner to the minors, the prospect pool is the best since pacioretty subban price and McDonaugh (and deeper) he seems to realize this league requires great skaters - MB has turned a page, and so have I. 

 

Im not saying I no longer criticize him, but I’m saying I recognize what he’s done recently, and if you ask me It’s a very good job. If the team regresses, I’ll change my mind, but right now I like the direction, so right now I like MB.

 

Well said.

 

Bergevin had some rocky years, but now I can see where he's headed with this team. 

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Not sure where you get the idea that MB inherited a team with winning tradition, that is ignoring the Houle and Gauthier years and most of the Gainey years

The CH has not had a winning tradition since the early 90s

 

MB changed the team from average to above average. That is a fact

 

Above average in what sense - ?

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16 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Above average in what sense - ?

 

I have to concur there. In a league where over half the teams make the playoffs, the Habs weren't able to last season, or in 3 of the past 4.

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4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Not sure where you get the idea that MB inherited a team with winning tradition, that is ignoring the Houle and Gauthier years and most of the Gainey years

The CH has not had a winning tradition since the early 90s

 

MB changed the team from average to above average. That is a fact

Bergevin’s been a GM for 7 years.  The team has missed the playoffs 4 of those years- including 3 of the last 4 years. The previous seven years before MB, they missed the playoffs 3 times.  The 5 years prior to MB being hired, they missed the playoffs once and that was the year they made cunneyworth coach and then Molson cut off his balls.

 

before MB, they were an average team.  With him, they are clearly below average - now that is a fact.

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4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Not sure where you get the idea that MB inherited a team with winning tradition, that is ignoring the Houle and Gauthier years and most of the Gainey years

The CH has not had a winning tradition since the early 90s

 

MB changed the team from average to above average. That is a fact

Above average.  One playoff appearance in the last 3 seasons. Trading a top d for a 3rd line forward, yes Drouin is not a Top 6 player. Yes Houle and Gauthier were bad but they were on on the job for 8 years. One would think that after 8 years of drafting and making trades the team would have more playoff appearances than and success than that.  In 8 years the team is no better than the Houle and Gauthier teams. 

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3 hours ago, Meller93 said:

About two years ago, or post-subban trade, I was all for firing Bergevin. I mean I had zero desire to hold onto him. That, then the Alzner signing, a teeeerrrible terrible prospect pool, and the constant need to sign CHaracter guys who couldn’t skate. I really didn’t like MB.

 

Fast forward two years. The sting of the Subban trade has lessened, and it doesn’t seem as lopsided. He’s sent Alzner to the minors, the prospect pool is the best since pacioretty subban price and McDonaugh (and deeper) he seems to realize this league requires great skaters - MB has turned a page, and so have I. 

 

Im not saying I no longer criticize him, but I’m saying I recognize what he’s done recently, and if you ask me It’s a very good job. If the team regresses, I’ll change my mind, but right now I like the direction, so right now I like MB.

Great post.  This sums up my view perfectly. Add to the disappointment his handling of the Markov Radulov free agency.  

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