Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
dlbalr

Sept. 18, Panthers vs Habs, 7 PM

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Wheeler has back-to-back seasons with 91 points. 

 

Poehling had 8 goals and 31 points in 36 games as the top line centre, in his third year of college, on the top team in the nation (regular season). 

 

I'm guessing he's not going to be anything close to Wheeler. 

 

He could be a good 2nd or 3rd line centre. 

 

If he becomes another Danault (in time, not this year), being able to score 45-55 points and play against the other team's best players, we should be ecstatic. 

Didn't Wheeler have 35 pts in 44 games in his 3rd year of college ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Poehling has a lot more offensive upside than what people are giving him credit for.

 

It seems every time he has played he has busted through his projections. He kinda reminds me of Jonathan Toews

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Commandant said:

Wheeler has back-to-back seasons with 91 points. 

 

Poehling had 8 goals and 31 points in 36 games as the top line centre, in his third year of college, on the top team in the nation (regular season). 

 

I'm guessing he's not going to be anything close to Wheeler. 

 

He could be a good 2nd or 3rd line centre. 

 

If he becomes another Danault (in time, not this year), being able to score 45-55 points and play against the other team's best players, we should be ecstatic. 

Wheeler had 35 points in 44 games in his 3rd year of college  compared to Poehling's 31 in 36. Correct me if im wrong but poehling was also 1 or 2 years younger? And under age in his 1st NCAA season? Again correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Poehling was also a huge reason why St.Cloud was in fact a juggernaut... not to mention his WJC/ MVP to go along with it.

 

Wheeler took 10 seasons in the NHL to hit 90pts and 6 seasons to hit 60... nobody and I mean nobody expected him to be a 90 point player coming out of college but hear we are 12 seasons later!

 

Why are we comparing the 2 exactly... and if we are we should be comparing their college careers which were very similar except for poehling being the youngest player in the NCAA during his 1st year there...

 

All we know so far about Poehling at the NHL level is that he has 4 points in 2 games and doesn't look out of place one single bit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought cousins was more of a C then a Winger? But hes only seen action thus far as a winger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I thought cousins was more of a C then a Winger? But hes only seen action thus far as a winger

 

He can play centre but he has a lot more experience on the wing than down the middle.  Last year was the only time he really saw time there with some regularity.  He'll be a winger with the Habs for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Commandant said:

Wheeler has back-to-back seasons with 91 points. 

 

Poehling had 8 goals and 31 points in 36 games as the top line centre, in his third year of college, on the top team in the nation (regular season). 

 

I'm guessing he's not going to be anything close to Wheeler. 

 

He could be a good 2nd or 3rd line centre. 

 

If he becomes another Danault (in time, not this year), being able to score 45-55 points and play against the other team's best players, we should be ecstatic. 

 

Part of my problem is that I've been listening to Montreal sports radio online lately. A lot of fans out there seems super excited about Poehling. But I just don't get fan attitudes about prospects. Danault is a very useful player, a fine NHLer, and all that. He brings value on this or any roster. But nobody gets excited about Danault: "all right! Can't frigging WAIT to watch Philip Danault this year!!" So why get all giddy because we probably have Danault 2.0 on our hands??? Don't get me wrong, it's good that we do. But the expectations and buzz around the kid are way out of whack with the knowledge that he is probably another version of Danault. Which is why, like I say - I don't get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Part of my problem is that I've been listening to Montreal sports radio online lately. A lot of fans out there seems super excited about Poehling. But I just don't get fan attitudes about prospects. Danault is a very useful player, a fine NHLer, and all that. He brings value on this or any roster. But nobody gets excited about Danault: "all right! Can't frigging WAIT to watch Philip Danault this year!!" So why get all giddy because we probably have Danault 2.0 on our hands??? Don't get me wrong, it's good that we do. But the expectations and buzz around the kid are way out of whack with the knowledge that he is probably another version of Danault. Which is why, like I say - I don't get it.

Today, tsn 690 pundits (not fans) were comparing him to Kesler...

I say we let the kid play and see where it goes.

 

His style of play for what I've seen in WJC and thus far with the habs  is neither Danault Kesler or Wheeler for that matter. Outside of being responsible in his own end that is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

Didn't Wheeler have 35 pts in 44 games in his 3rd year of college ?

 

He also had double the goals and wasn't playing on the top line of the best team in the country. Wheeler is an exception to the rule.  I wouldn't expect other players to have the same type of curve in terms of improving their game.  Less than 1% of players with those stats are going to be 90 point scorers in the NHL... so expecting any one prospect to do that (or even come close to it) is a bit much.  I'm all about setting a realistic expectation and if thats Danault, thats a great selection in that point of the draft.  Poehling has never been a scoring superstar. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Wheeler had 35 points in 44 games in his 3rd year of college  compared to Poehling's 31 in 36. Correct me if im wrong but poehling was also 1 or 2 years younger? And under age in his 1st NCAA season? Again correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Poehling was also a huge reason why St.Cloud was in fact a juggernaut... not to mention his WJC/ MVP to go along with it.

 

Wheeler took 10 seasons in the NHL to hit 90pts and 6 seasons to hit 60... nobody and I mean nobody expected him to be a 90 point player coming out of college but hear we are 12 seasons later!

 

Why are we comparing the 2 exactly... and if we are we should be comparing their college careers which were very similar except for poehling being the youngest player in the NCAA during his 1st year there...

 

All we know so far about Poehling at the NHL level is that he has 4 points in 2 games and doesn't look out of place one single bit

 

When fans put those expectations on him, and then he never reaches it, he becomes a bust in the eyes of those same fans and gets run out of town. 

 

Expectations need to be tempered. 

 

If he exceeds them, great. 

 

The problem is that if the expectations are too high and then you throw away a useful player cause he can't be a 90 point first line guy or score 40 like Kesler, or whatever it is. How many decent players have we thrown away in the last 30 years cause they were just a little less than what they were hyped to be. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

When fans put those expectations on him, and then he never reaches it, he becomes a bust in the eyes of those same fans and gets run out of town. 

 

Expectations need to be tempered. 

 

If he exceeds them, great. 

 

The problem is that if the expectations are too high and then you throw away a useful player cause he can't be a 90 point first line guy or score 40 like Kesler, or whatever it is. How many decent players have we thrown away in the last 30 years cause they were just a little less than what they were hyped to be. 

Agree 100%

 

It's why I keep saying let the kid just play his game and merit his place... doesn't help the craziness that hes started his career with 2 real solid games.

 

With that said, Suzuki looks great tonight as well. Cant help breaking a smile right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

When fans put those expectations on him, and then he never reaches it, he becomes a bust in the eyes of those same fans and gets run out of town. 

 

Expectations need to be tempered. 

 

If he exceeds them, great. 

 

The problem is that if the expectations are too high and then you throw away a useful player cause he can't be a 90 point first line guy or score 40 like Kesler, or whatever it is. How many decent players have we thrown away in the last 30 years cause they were just a little less than what they were hyped to be. 

 

Indeed. The other thing that happens is that fans go absolutely ballistic in blaming management and coaches for somehow stifling the kid's potential when he evolves into the player he actually projected to be in the first place. Eller is the example par excellence - how many fans were howling for the coaching staff's blood because those drooling, ignorant imbeciles refused to put POTENTIAL STAR Lars Eller in key offensive roles? Some young guys get branded as these awesome talents and then all evidence to the contrary is blamed on everyone except the player.

 

Now Suzuki seems to be a prospect with a realistic chance of being a top-6, maybe even a top-3 NHLer. KoKo is not a "prospect" I guess but he too has a higher-end ceiling. Those are kids about whom it is realistic to be excited (as long as we don't go off the deep end; neither is Connor McDavid). But likely top-9 guys are like #4 defencemen...good pieces but nothing to go cowabunga over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Indeed. The other thing that happens is that fans go absolutely ballistic in blaming management and coaches for somehow stifling the kid's potential when he evolves into the player he actually projected to be in the first place. Eller is the example par excellence - how many fans were howling for the coaching staff's blood because those drooling, ignorant imbeciles refused to put POTENTIAL STAR Lars Eller in key offensive roles? Some young guys get branded as these awesome talents and then all evidence to the contrary is blamed on everyone except the player.

 

Now Suzuki seems to be a prospect with a realistic chance of being a top-6, maybe even a top-3 NHLer. KoKo is not a "prospect" I guess but he too has a higher-end ceiling. Those are kids about whom it is realistic to be excited (as long as we don't go off the deep end; neither is Connor McDavid). But likely top-9 guys are like #4 defencemen...good pieces but nothing to go cowabunga over.

 

Id add caufield to the mix of.potential top line guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Scott462 said:

I think Poehling has a lot more offensive upside than what people are giving him credit for.

 

It seems every time he has played he has busted through his projections. He kinda reminds me of Jonathan Toews

 

 

I agree - to me Phoeling has the potential to be a Patrice Bergeron type of player for the Habs - seems to play a strong 200 foot game and has offensive skill/scoring etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Kotkaniemi could be a Bergeron type. We’ll see about Poehling. It wouldn’t be bad to have two Bergerons on the same squad but I’ll temper by expectations. I can see the Danault comparison with Poehling but it’s also an awkward comparison as I don’t consider Danault a top line center in this league and yet that’s where he plays. I’m not sure Poehling will be a top line centre. Second or third line is what I expect, even in his prime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HabsFan 24 said:

 

 

I agree - to me Phoeling has the potential to be a Patrice Bergeron type of player for the Habs - seems to play a strong 200 foot game and has offensive skill/scoring etc. 

 

It would be amazing if he could reach that caliber even though that is a long shot you just never know, it’s promising to see his progress in any event.

 

Hear he is out with a concussion now, that really sucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I think Kotkaniemi could be a Bergeron type. We’ll see about Poehling. It wouldn’t be bad to have two Bergerons on the same squad but I’ll temper by expectations. I can see the Danault comparison with Poehling but it’s also an awkward comparison as I don’t consider Danault a top line center in this league and yet that’s where he plays. I’m not sure Poehling will be a top line centre. Second or third line is what I expect, even in his prime.

On a good team and true contender Danault would be a 3rd line centre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

On a good team and true contender Danault would be a 3rd line centre.

 

No question. But this team is nowhere near contending, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

No question. But this team is nowhere near contending, of course.

 

A 55 point guy who can play against the other team's top line? 

 

A contender absolutely can have that as its second line centre. 

 

Of course it needs another 70+ point season from a Domi... or the emergence of a Kotkaniemi as a 70 point guy on the top line.  And it needs a true #2 Dman to be on the left side beside Weber pushing Mete down the lineup. 

 

Could Danault be a #2 on a cup team? Yes... if you don't have less than ideal players at number 1 C and at number 1 LHD. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

A 55 point guy who can play against the other team's top line? 

 

A contender absolutely can have that as its second line centre. 

 

Of course it needs another 70+ point season from a Domi... or the emergence of a Kotkaniemi as a 70 point guy on the top line.  And it needs a true #2 Dman to be on the left side beside Weber pushing Mete down the lineup. 

 

Could Danault be a #2 on a cup team? Yes... if you don't have less than ideal players at number 1 C and at number 1 LHD. 

 

There's no single formula for winning a Cup, it's true. I suppose that *if* the Habs had an elite D-corps and elite wingers, then yes, Domi-Danault could be the top pivots on a Cup-winner. Saying "Danault is better as a #3C" is really code for saying that Domi-Danault is probably not potent enough as a 1-2 punch down the middle - unless the team has massive strengths in other areas, which it doesn't really.

 

I think we all assume that KoKo will vault into the top-6 C position within a year or two. (He'd better; we didn't draft him to be Lars Eller). What will be interesting to see is whether he displaces Danault, who then drops to #3C, or Domi, who could do likewise but more plausibly would go to W. Personally I love Domi at C - a 70+ point C with jam? Yes please - but the coaches probably suffer anxiety attacks at the thought that he might ocasionally get overmatched down low in his end, even if he is a +20 or whatever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you want Danault on your top 2 lines. His point production is that of a 2nd line centre. His defensive ability is top notch. You want him playing against other top players. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

53 points? 

 

On a non playoff team that is top 2 center production. 

 

On a good team, he is a perfect 3rd line center

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Domi 26th in centre scoring

Danault 48th

Kotkaniemi 84th

C- 195pts total

 

St Louis

18th, 45th, 71st

C- 270pts total

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, DON said:

Domi 26th in centre scoring

Danault 48th

Kotkaniemi 84th

C- 195pts total

 

St Louis

18th, 45th, 71st

C- 270pts total

 

 

Good post, thanks.

 

What I posted earlier, about perhaps being able to win with these results at C IF they're offset by huge strengths in other areas may still be true. But the more straightforward conclusion would seem to be that - assuming no progression or regression from Domi - we need another C who produces offence comparable or superior to his, in order to vault into at least the middle of the pack at C. Otherwise put, Danault might be a legit #2C behind a heavy-duty #1C like Crosby, but not behind a #1A like Domi.

 

If KoKo does evolve into a Bobby Smith type, i.e., a 70-80 point C, then those totals look very different. Danault or Poehling (or whomever) could then slot into the #3 slot and C will become a position of real organizational strength. A lot rides on that kid IMHO.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Need Kotkaniemi to score a bit on the road, 10lbs heavier and a year under his belt should help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...