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2019-20 NHL Discussion Thread

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2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

I define wining by being looked at as a top team in the league. Being looked at as a lock to make the playoffs every year. Being looked at as a cup favorite every year. Being a team that everyone hates to play. That's how i define wining.

 

 

Yo, this is not a winning team,  that's a ####in' powerhouse !

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25 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

Yo, this is not a winning team,  that's a ####in' powerhouse !

If you're a owner of a sports teams those should be your standards. Not this bubble team crap full of excuse we see.

 

I don't understand how people are fine with being a team that almost makes the playoffs every year, instead of a team that should make the playoffs every year.

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1 minute ago, Habsfan89 said:

If you're a owner of a sports teams those should be your standards. Not this bubble team crap full of excuse we see.

 

I don't understand how people are fine with being a team that almost makes the playoffs every year, instead of a team that should make the playoffs every year.

That broad generalisations is erroneous {https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization].

    <<a conclusion made about all or many instances of a phenomenon, that has been reached on the basis of one or a few instances of that phenomenon>>

 

I think most fans want the team to do well every year but there are different levels of acceptance when the season is derailed by: sub-par performance, coaching ineptitude, fractured team, injuries, lack of talent.

 

To build the team you envision, the Habs would need to pick multiple exceptional players in the span of 2-3 years so that they from the core of a winning team (cup winning dynasties like Pittsburgh, Chicago, Detroit, etc.)

The Habs do not have that type of player in their system and they do not have the assets to trade for them. We can argue on how to get there from here (which we are doing), but you canno say that "people are fine with mediocrity" 

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11 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

If you're a owner of a sports teams those should be your standards. Not this bubble team crap full of excuse we see.

 

I don't understand how people are fine with being a team that almost makes the playoffs every year, instead of a team that should make the playoffs every year.

Oh trust me, I'm not one of those.


I'm definitely tired of the half ass plan of MB. 

"I'm not willing to pay, I'm not willing to sell either,  all I'm willing to do is 1 for 1 barter hoping for good results".

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43 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I don't understand how people are fine with ...

Because a Habs fanatic you aint, is my best guess?:popcorn:

 

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39 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

Oh trust me, I'm not one of those.


I'm definitely tired of the half ass plan of MB. 

"I'm not willing to pay, I'm not willing to sell either,  all I'm willing to do is 1 for 1 barter hoping for good results".

But Joe, you dont drone on about the teams weakness endlessly, so that means you have to be fine with the status quo. :D

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Because a Habs fanatic you aint, is my best guess?:popcorn:

 

Why because I don't like losing every year?  Because I want people to talk about the habs as a top team? Because I want the habs to be mentioned as cup contenders every year? Because I won't settle for a bubble team full of excuses every year. Which point doesn't make me a fanatic 🤔

 

I guess around here in your eyes as long as you agree with everything management does that makes you a fanatic fan ????????

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5 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I guess around here in your eyes as long as you agree with everything management does that makes you a fanatic fan ????????

 

2 hours ago, DON said:

But Don you dont drone on about the teams weakness endlessly, so that means you have to be fine with the status quo. :D

 

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46 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Why because I don't like losing every year?  Because I want people to talk about the habs as a top team? Because I want the habs to be mentioned as cup contenders every year? Because I won't settle for a bubble team full of excuses every year. Which point doesn't make me a fanatic 🤔

 

I guess around here in your eyes as long as you agree with everything management does that makes you a fanatic fan ????????

 

I agree with a chunk of what you said. I want the Habs to be cup contenders every year, absolutely.  I just try and focus on what the Habs should do right now to help get us there rather than going back and complaining about past mistakes. I don't agree with everything management does, just think that MB has done much better the last couple years. 

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9 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree with a chunk of what you said. I want the Habs to be cup contenders every year, absolutely.  I just try and focus on what the Habs should do right now to help get us there rather than going back and complaining about past mistakes. I don't agree with everything management does, just think that MB has done much better the last couple years. 

 

Bingo

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40 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree with a chunk of what you said. I want the Habs to be cup contenders every year, absolutely.  I just try and focus on what the Habs should do right now to help get us there rather than going back and complaining about past mistakes. I don't agree with everything management does, just think that MB has done much better the last couple years. 

Well the past keeps repeating itself here in Montreal and if we don't change our way of thinking then in 4 years time we will still be a bubble team and going through another reset.

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

You must really miss that red button dont you. 

Dont tease.

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Let’s not forget that if we follow some advice at the opposite end of the spectrum and go ahead and trade away our best players such as Weber and Price, a bubble team may be too high an aspiration for the team that would come out on the other end of that. That team could very well be bubble/lottery for years. 

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4 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Well the past keeps repeating itself here in Montreal and if we don't change our way of thinking then in 4 years time we will still be a bubble team and going through another reset.

 

OK, what should they do?

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13 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Well the past keeps repeating itself here in Montreal and if we don't change our way of thinking then in 4 years time we will still be a bubble team and going through another reset.

 

I agree that MB has done much better in the past two years (although I'm still annoyed at his failure to upgrade the team last summer). 

 

But I think you're gesturing toward a fundamental problem with the entire 'reset' model, which is that Weber and Price are getting old. They will have aged out, or be aging out, by the time the kids hit their primes, and they are the top talents in the entire system. If we do the thought exercise of adding an impactful Romanov and Suzuki while subtracting Weber and Price - and I know this is a highly simplified heuristic device - it clarifies this problem. Such a team would be no better. It might be worse. 

 

So I'm not saying the reset for sure won't succeed, but when the best talents in your reset are in their mid-30s, that should give pause. Ce n'est pas evident.

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19 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I agree that MB has done much better in the past two years (although I'm still annoyed at his failure to upgrade the team last summer). 

 

But I think you're gesturing toward a fundamental problem with the entire 'reset' model, which is that Weber and Price are getting old. They will have aged out, or be aging out, by the time the kids hit their primes, and they are the top talents in the entire system. If we do the thought exercise of adding an impactful Romanov and Suzuki while subtracting Weber and Price - and I know this is a highly simplified heuristic device - it clarifies this problem. Such a team would be no better. It might be worse. 

 

So I'm not saying the reset for sure won't succeed, but when the best talents in your reset are in their mid-30s, that should give pause. Ce n'est pas evident.

 

For me the big question is what to do with Price and Weber.  Do you trade them for some young talent/draft picks or do you keep them around to help mentor the young players?  I see the benefits of both. There is no doubt in my mind that Price could be a difference maker for the right team who is chasing the cup. He still has 5-6 good years in him as there are many cases of goalies playing at a high level into their late 30's. Weber maybe 2-3 years but his leadership is invaluable especially as a mentor to the young defenceman coming up.  What to do. 

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2 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

For me the big question is what to do with Price and Weber.  Do you trade them for some young talent/draft picks or do you keep them around to help mentor the young players?  I see the benefits of both. There is no doubt in my mind that Price could be a difference maker for the right team who is chasing the cup. He still has 5-6 good years in him as there are many cases of goalies playing at a high level into their late 30's. Weber maybe 2-3 years but his leadership is invaluable especially as a mentor to the young defenceman coming up.  What to do. 

 

It all depends on the return. I do think both players could have massive value to a contender, where the fit is right. I wouldn't trade both of them, but I would definitely be open to trading one. Frankly, I think it's much easier to get a good G than a top-pairing blueliner, and that's why I've written positively on this site about moving #31 if the opportunity arises.

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See and I dont believe Price has the trade value everyone believes he does. Its not 2015!!! Although his last 3 games have been very very promising, his body of work over 3 seasons has not been good at all. Sure hes had some bright spots like Jan - March last year. But those bright spots have been few and far between. All that said, his salary alone is such a detriment to his trade value. What team can pay their goalie today 10.5 million? Nobody!

 

Weber on the other hand at 7+ Million is actually of value. I think he could fetch multiple picks and a prospect....

 

just my 2 cents.

 

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1 minute ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

For me the big question is what to do with Price and Weber.  Do you trade them for some young talent/draft picks or do you keep them around to help mentor the young players?  I see the benefits of both. There is no doubt in my mind that Price could be a difference maker for the right team who is chasing the cup. He still has 5-6 good years in him as there are many cases of goalies playing at a high level into their late 30's. Weber maybe 2-3 years but his leadership is invaluable especially as a mentor to the young defenceman coming up.  What to do. 

 No question that You need guys to mentor your young players, but in a cap system you can’t be spending $18M on mentors that are it going to to be the best players on the team when it is ready to compete.

 

when Scotty bowman was once told about a player that they were considering moving, someone said, but he’s good in the room. Scotty’s reply was than let him stay in the room.

 

if a proper reset was going to be done, MB needed to have more draft picks that were ready to step in and be top line players that were going to have an immidiate impact  and trade for top end players that would plug the holes - true top pair LD and a true dominating #1 centre.  He did neither.  
 

this team needs a true rebuild and you have to trade your most depreciating assets that have high value now.  You can trade for or sign other cheaper mentors. Mentors are most effective if theve actually had a history of playoff success and lifted the cup.  Olympic gold medals are not the same thing.

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4 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

See and I dont believe Price has the trade value everyone believes he does. Its not 2015!!! Although his last 3 games have been very very promising, his body of work over 3 seasons has not been good at all. Sure hes had some bright spots like Jan - March last year. But those bright spots have been few and far between. All that said, his salary alone is such a detriment to his trade value. What team can pay their goalie today 10.5 million? Nobody!

 

Weber on the other hand at 7+ Million is actually of value. I think he could fetch multiple picks and a prospect....

 

just my 2 cents.

 

You can move both and improve the return by taking bad contracts in return.

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17 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It all depends on the return. I do think both players could have massive value to a contender, where the fit is right. I wouldn't trade both of them, but I would definitely be open to trading one. Frankly, I think it's much easier to get a good G than a top-pairing blueliner, and that's why I've written positively on this site about moving #31 if the opportunity arises.

 

No question that it depends a lot on the return. Agree on that.

 

14 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

See and I dont believe Price has the trade value everyone believes he does. Its not 2015!!! Although his last 3 games have been very very promising, his body of work over 3 seasons has not been good at all. Sure hes had some bright spots like Jan - March last year. But those bright spots have been few and far between. All that said, his salary alone is such a detriment to his trade value. What team can pay their goalie today 10.5 million? Nobody!

 

Weber on the other hand at 7+ Million is actually of value. I think he could fetch multiple picks and a prospect....

 

just my 2 cents.

 

 

Agree that Price's contract is a big impediment. I think so much of goaltending is confidence and Price's confidence has taken a hit playing behind a mediocre defence. I think in the right situation Price could do what Patrick Roy did in Colorado when he went there. 

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16 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You can move both and improve the return by taking bad contracts in return.

 

I think that taking on a bad contract (hopefully not a long term one) would likely have to happen if they were trading Price or Weber, more likely for Price. 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I agree that MB has done much better in the past two years (although I'm still annoyed at his failure to upgrade the team last summer). 

 

But I think you're gesturing toward a fundamental problem with the entire 'reset' model, which is that Weber and Price are getting old. They will have aged out, or be aging out, by the time the kids hit their primes, and they are the top talents in the entire system. If we do the thought exercise of adding an impactful Romanov and Suzuki while subtracting Weber and Price - and I know this is a highly simplified heuristic device - it clarifies this problem. Such a team would be no better. It might be worse. 

 

So I'm not saying the reset for sure won't succeed, but when the best talents in your reset are in their mid-30s, that should give pause. Ce n'est pas evident.

Yes I agree as long as you have price and weber on the team you should be looking to build a team around them to help contend and/or win a cup, not build for the future.

If you're planning to build for the future then there's no need for a Price or Weber on the team and we should be looking at being a lottery pick team, not a bubble team. 

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