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2019-20 NHL Discussion Thread

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4 hours ago, DON said:

How will Sens make out tomorrow?

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It would be quite nice if the 22% held up strong. ūüí™ūüŹĽ

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On 6/22/2020 at 4:29 PM, GHT120 said:

 

IMO Holtby makes no sense unless they are going to move Price ... which is OK by me ... doubt he will sign as a backup, or at least not at anywhere near a reasonable salary ... Crawford (or maybe another Keith Kinkaid-like bargain basement option) ... I am curious to see Demchenko ... think he is better than his last season's stats show.

 

Toffoli is a nice player but, other than one 31 goal season, he is a 21 goal per 82 games player ... not the top 6 scorer the habs need ... unless (for example only) they were going to trade Domi for a #1-LHD ... Taylor Hall is closer to what the Habs need but even then, other than his one standout season, he is a 26g/82gm ... Mike Hoffman matches that and would likely be cheaper ... Dadonov has been slightly better since returning from the KHL (29g/82gm) and might be a good option, using the down market to keep the term and salary down ... an under-the-radar RFA option might be Oskar Lindbom (who pro-rated to 82 games had a 30 goal season).

 

 

 

I highly doubt the Flyers allow Lindblom to hit the UFA market.  It would be a PR disaster to not make him a fair offer given that he is almost ready to come back from cancer. 

 

Mike Hoffman probably won't be a target for a team that preaches Character. 

I'd like Dadonov.  At 31 I'd be careful on term, but very good in both ends of the ice.  Really like him, but wouldn't want to long of a deal due to age. 

Taylor Hall is an elite player.  No questions on that one. 

The Habs team is very, very fast... I question how Toffoli would fit with our squad, he's below average speed. Would he keep up with our transition game.

 

All that said, I don't think winger is what we are going to go after, especially with Engels and others reporting that its highly likely Kovalchuk signs a one-year deal, and then we have Caufield and Ylonen coming after that (plus decisions on moving Domi or another C to the wing as KK, Suzuki, Poehling continue to develop).

 

I think we go after LHD still.  I still think Vince Dunn is a good under the radar option for a trade/offer sheet given the blues cap situation. 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Commandant said:

... Taylor Hall is an elite player.  No questions on that one ...

 

IMO that is in part related to his having been a #1 overall ... he is a without a single doubt in my mind a top 6 winger, and almost certainly a first line winger, but at 26 goals per 82 (sans one spike season) he is not (IMO) elite ... that matches Gallagher's "per 82" average and much as I love Brendan don't consider him elite ... I reserve my use of the term for a very small number of players (e.g., McDavid, Crosby, Kane) ...  but it is a matter of semantics when discussing adjectives

Edited by GHT120

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Future hall of famer and MVP winner Joe Thorton averages 21g/82gms.

So dont think that is a good judge how elite he is.

 

Thorton at      590gms 190g 357a

Hall currently 627gms  218g 345a

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:


It would be quite nice if the 22% held up strong. ūüí™ūüŹĽ

I dunno, just not as down on Sens as most are...granted, owner is a jack ass; but would still pull for them to beat any of leafs-sabres-bruins-TB-Fla-Wings

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43 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

IMO that is in part related to his having been a #1 overall ... he is a without a single doubt in my mind a top 6 winger, and almost certainly a first line winger, but at 26 goals per 82 (sans one spike season) he is not (IMO) elite ... that matches Gallagher's "per 82" average and much as I love Brendan don't consider him elite ... I reserve my use of the term for a very small number of players (e.g., McDavid, Crosby, Kane) ...  but it is a matter of semantics when discussing adjectives

 

Kane earlier in his career sure.

 

Recent seasons while he still has the points his defensive game is horrible. He cheats too much in his own end to keep from falling off offensively and now hes basically giving up the same number and quality of chances against as he generates 

 

Hall is a better player cause he plays in both ends.

 

Hall recently won a Hart Trophy.  Gallagher as much as i love him isnt doing that.  Hall is elite.  Hes a top 10 winger in the NHL.

 

My only question on him is staying healthy.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Kane earlier in his career sure.

 

Recent seasons while he still has the points his defensive game is horrible. He cheats too much in his own end to keep from falling off offensively and now hes basically giving up the same number and quality of chances against as he generates 

 

Hall is a better player cause he plays in both ends.

 

Hall recently won a Hart Trophy.  Gallagher as much as i love him isnt doing that.  Hall is elite.  Hes a top 10 winger in the NHL.

 

My only question on him is staying healthy.

 

Totally agree about health being a question, especially when considering term  ... but that Hart season was (IMO) an aberration ... 50% more goals and 25% more assists than his 82 gm averages throughout the rest of his career ... since then he certainly has had injury issues and has only produced slightly below his career averages ... might he have carried the momentum of his spike year forward sans injury, and established himself as an elite player?  ... we will never know ... ALL THAT SAID ... on the right deal I could see the Habs signing him ... perhaps overpaying whatever the market becomes this "summer" but for 2-3 years only ... and I could accept it as a "now" move (overall, I my preference is going more strongly "reset") .

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1 hour ago, DON said:

I dunno, just not as down on Sens as most are...granted, owner is a jack ass; but would still pull for them to beat any of leafs-sabres-bruins-TB-Fla-Wings

 

I live in Ottawa and have to put up with Sens fans ... so I hope the process somehow goes crazy and they pick 14th and 15th (LOL)

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44 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

I live in Ottawa and have to put up with Sens fans ... so I hope the process somehow goes crazy and they pick 14th and 15th (LOL)

I am here in Ottawa too, my boss is a Sens season ticket holder

 

I would have fun bugging him if the draft is a disaster for the Sens :)

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Totally agree about health being a question, especially when considering term  ... but that Hart season was (IMO) an aberration ... 50% more goals and 25% more assists than his 82 gm averages throughout the rest of his career ... since then he certainly has had injury issues and has only produced slightly below his career averages ... might he have carried the momentum of his spike year forward sans injury, and established himself as an elite player?  ... we will never know ... ALL THAT SAID ... on the right deal I could see the Habs signing him ... perhaps overpaying whatever the market becomes this "summer" but for 2-3 years only ... and I could accept it as a "now" move (overall, I my preference is going more strongly "reset") .

 

He's been a PPG player in 4 out of his 10 seasons in the league.  In his other seasons he's usually good for a 60 -70 point pace. 

 

A guy whose floor is 0.75 pts per game and is a threat to go over .875 PPG half the time, and go 1.0 PPG+  40% of the time, is an elite player in the current game.

 

Hall is also excellent on the PP... running things from the boards... something this team could really use. 

 

That said, he wants to be on a contender, to be guaranteed playoffs and runs at a cup, something he's never had, so its unlikely we stand a chance. That said, if you can sign him at Market Value, you do it. 

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On 6/25/2020 at 9:29 AM, DON said:

How will Sens make out tomorrow?

image.png

Let's say hypothetically the Sens end up picking 5 & 6 tonight and the slots 1, 2 & 3 are all play-in teams. Do you throw your play-in knowing you have a 37.5% chance at a top three pick? I know players don't throw games but teams could maybe not put their best line-up out there. This scenario would be worst case for the NHL as I think it would make teams ponder. 

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Is a possibility; but I think tanking a series is much different than being 20points back with 2 months left in season and trading away good players for future assets.

So, I highly doubt any team wouldn't even think of it. 

 

But it would be very interesting to see Hawks, Habs or the like luck out in lottery and make it to a game 5...if they even resume playing before the new year.

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17 minutes ago, Habsfan84 said:

Let's say hypothetically the Sens end up picking 5 & 6 tonight and the slots 1, 2 & 3 are all play-in teams. Do you throw your play-in knowing you have a 37.5% chance at a top three pick? I know players don't throw games but teams could maybe not put their best line-up out there. This scenario would be worst case for the NHL as I think it would make teams ponder. 


I would, if I could ... because I don't see the Habs as anywhere near a Cup contender and want a MAJOR re-set (since "rebuild" is apparently a dirty word around the Bell Centre)

 

BUT, a full tank would (for example) mean playing Lindgren, sitting Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Drouin, Domi, Suzuki and Tartar ... the NHL might then take away the Habs first rounder as a penalty for obviously tanking ... more subtly, I suppose they could do things like:

  • "force feed" KK as the 2C ... but getting eaten up by Crosby or Malkin may regress his development¬†
  • sit Domi for health reasons, or move him to LW (which seemed to make Max¬†sulk when last done) to make room for Poehling as 3C ... but that could screw¬†the relationship going forward)
  • play Peca, Barber and Weise as the 4th line
  • manage Weber and Petry's minutes ("because of" the layoff followed by inadequate training camp) and play Folin and Alzner as the 3rd pairing 18 minutes per game

But even that would be a fairly obvious tank (if not perhaps punishable by the NHL) and annoy the players (if they are going to play they want to try to win)

Sadly ... I think they have to count on the Pens just being better

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Maybe Julien could engineer a few "too many men" penalties at key points in the series? Or request too many reviews to trigger a penalty?

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2 hours ago, GHT120 said:


I would, if I could ... because I don't see the Habs as anywhere near a Cup contender and want a MAJOR re-set (since "rebuild" is apparently a dirty word around the Bell Centre)

 

BUT, a full tank would (for example) mean playing Lindgren, sitting Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Drouin, Domi, Suzuki and Tartar ... the NHL might then take away the Habs first rounder as a penalty for obviously tanking ... more subtly, I suppose they could do things like:

  • "force feed" KK as the 2C ... but getting eaten up by Crosby or Malkin may regress his development¬†
  • sit Domi for health reasons, or move him to LW (which seemed to make Max¬†sulk when last done) to make room for Poehling as 3C ... but that could screw¬†the relationship going forward)
  • play Peca, Barber and Weise as the 4th line
  • manage Weber and Petry's minutes ("because of" the layoff followed by inadequate training camp) and play Folin and Alzner as the 3rd pairing 18 minutes per game

But even that would be a fairly obvious tank (if not perhaps punishable by the NHL) and annoy the players (if they are going to play they want to try to win)

Sadly ... I think they have to count on the Pens just being better

Umm, I think the pens are better.  Quite a bit better.  Having said that they were the better team in 2010 as well, but with our D, I just can’t see a repeat of that run.

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48 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Umm, I think the pens are better.  Quite a bit better.  Having said that they were the better team in 2010 as well, but with our D, I just can’t see a repeat of that run.

Agree ... and hope "anything" won't happen ... while a hard fought 5 game series would be entertaining, it would also validate MB's "we are close" mantra ... "hurry hard" Pens, "hurry hard" 

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4 hours ago, GHT120 said:


I would, if I could ... because I don't see the Habs as anywhere near a Cup contender and want a MAJOR re-set (since "rebuild" is apparently a dirty word around the Bell Centre)

 

BUT, a full tank would (for example) mean playing Lindgren, sitting Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Drouin, Domi, Suzuki and Tartar ... the NHL might then take away the Habs first rounder as a penalty for obviously tanking ... more subtly, I suppose they could do things like:

  • "force feed" KK as the 2C ... but getting eaten up by Crosby or Malkin may regress his development¬†
  • sit Domi for health reasons, or move him to LW (which seemed to make Max¬†sulk when last done) to make room for Poehling as 3C ... but that could screw¬†the relationship going forward)
  • play Peca, Barber and Weise as the 4th line
  • manage Weber and Petry's minutes ("because of" the layoff followed by inadequate training camp) and play Folin and Alzner as the 3rd pairing 18 minutes per game

But even that would be a fairly obvious tank (if not perhaps punishable by the NHL) and annoy the players (if they are going to play they want to try to win)

Sadly ... I think they have to count on the Pens just being better

It’s silly.
 

If the Habs are bad (which I’ve been on record saying we’re obviously underdogs against the Penguins) and they lose, then they’ll end up with the potential to have a lottery pick in the situation described. If they go on a run, while unlikely, all the better. 
 

A team shouldn’t make themselves worse when they have a shot at the cup, ever. If they’re already as bad as people describe, they’ll earn the pick on their own. 
 

I started posting after reading your entire post but see that it is the same conclusion you came up with as well. 
 

 

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Habs now have a 12.5% chance at the #1 overall pick if they lose their play-in. 

 

Tough break for the Wings. Fourth year in a row they have dropped. 4th was the worst they could finish and they did just that.

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Well guess that's means we're beating pens. I mean we tend to blow these kind of opportunity's.

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

It’s silly.
 

If the Habs are bad (which I’ve been on record saying we’re obviously underdogs against the Penguins) and they lose, then they’ll end up with the potential to have a lottery pick in the situation described. If they go on a run, while unlikely, all the better. 
 

A team shouldn’t make themselves worse when they have a shot at the cup, ever. If they’re already as bad as people describe, they’ll earn the pick on their own. 
 

I started posting after reading your entire post but see that it is the same conclusion you came up with as well. 
 

 

Well if you look at it this way we shouldn't be in the playoffs to begin with. 

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The state of the NHL in a nutshell:

 

 

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The thought of the Habs losing playoff games has always been painful for me....until now.  I'd be thrilled if the Pens swept us via three blowouts in exchange for Lafreneiere

 

Edit:  didn't realize it was only 12.5% chance until after original post...not as enthusiastic about a tournament tank now.

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Just another tidbit of information is that Team E of the play-in teams won the lottery with a 2.5% chance at the pick. Team E had the 12th best odds which if you go by points percentage would have been the Jets. 

 

Believe you me I would of been upset if team A (The Habs) would of won it. Now the way I look at this from a Habs perspective is that we are playing with the houses money. If the regular season would of played out we likely never would of got to 12th last in the standings. If they would of just ended the season with the current standings we wouldn't of got those 12th odds. Even if they don't finish the playoffs we still have a 12.5% at it. Admittedly I was also at first upset that the play-in teams would of got equal odds at the won pick thinking that it still should of been based on win percentage (different odds) for the Stage 2 lottery but now I am content knowing we have a free shot.

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13 hours ago, sbhatt said:

The thought of the Habs losing playoff games has always been painful for me....until now.  I'd be thrilled if the Pens swept us via three blowouts in exchange for Lafreneiere

 

Edit:  didn't realize it was only 12.5% chance until after original post...not as enthusiastic about a tournament tank now.

 

These ***ARE NOT*** playoff games.

 

They are the "Let's be fair to the teams that had a chance to make the playoffs (NYI, NYR, FLA, Van, Min) and find a way to include the Montreal and Chicago TV markets"
play-IN games ... Habs have to beat the Pens to be in the playoffs ... so it is really only like cheering for losses in the three of the last five regular season games to optimize draft position.

 

As for 12.5% ... those are better odds than anyone but Detroit and Ottawa had last night ... slightly more than twice the odds the Habs would have had normally ... 12.5% chance at #1 or pick 9th ... in the regular lottery the Habs odds of picking 9th were 36%, and could even have picked 10th (7.8%) or even 11th (0.4%) ... overall, as long as the Habs lose to the Pens they have come out ahead (IMO).

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