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KK_Niemi15

Any concern with Kotkaniemi long term future here ?

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Seems like his development and ice team are being hampered under Julien. I am concerned. Is he still like the future one of the elite core or do you think things have changed?

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This is just my opinion, so I don't want to argue with anyone, but I don't think he should be in the NHL right now. 

 

This kid has huge potential, I just don't want him to lose confidence in himself, at such a young age. 

 

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this thread needs to be deleted....

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Come on, really? I'll begin to get worried when he is still rockin out 30 point seasons at age 22, and still being sheltered with 12 min of ice time. Until then he is just a kid with immense talent and potential who is honing his craft and learning on the job.

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6 hours ago, KK_Niemi15 said:

Seems like his development and ice team are being hampered under Julien. I am concerned. Is he still like the future one of the elite core or do you think things have changed?

Julien won't be coach that long here to hamper Kotkaniemi development. When I look at him i kind of see a Jordan Staal type of clone. A very good two way checking center that will put up around 50-60pts a year. I could be wrong but I get that vibe with him.

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I just want to clear the air, my post wasn't agreeing with this thread. The Kid is 19, he is the future of this organization, without question 

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15 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

this thread needs to be deleted....

Isn’t this what discussion boards are for? There is a 17 page thread on HF about him 

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22 hours ago, KK_Niemi15 said:

Seems like his development and ice team are being hampered under Julien. I am concerned. Is he still like the future one of the elite core or do you think things have changed?

 

While he's not far off the 100-game mark, he's still one of the youngest players in the league.  I don't think it's time to get worried just yet that he's not lighting it up.  I think they still envision him as their top centre of the future but it will take a few years to get there.

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59 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

While he's not far off the 100-game mark, he's still one of the youngest players in the league.  I don't think it's time to get worried just yet that he's not lighting it up.  I think they still envision him as their top centre of the future but it will take a few years to get there.


ok. If you aren’t concerned with his play; are you concerned with the organizations handling of our top young guy? 11 min a game? Like what are they doing 

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20 minutes ago, KK_Niemi15 said:

ok. If you aren’t concerned with his play; are you concerned with the organizations handling of our top young guy? 11 min a game? Like what are they doing 

 

He's averaging over 13 minutes a night which is close to what he averaged last year (13:12 this year, 13:44 last year).  There's more depth on the roster now so the 30-second gap is justifiable at this stage as the 5-on-5 TOI is pretty balanced (compared to having the Agostino-Chaput-Deslauriers group on the fourth where the top three had to play a bit more). 

 

I don't think he's ready for top-six NHL minutes yet so I don't really have a problem with how they're handling him (third line with some PP usage).  I'm not a fan of throwing players - especially top youngsters - to the wolves and hoping that it'll work out for the best.  I thought he'd be closer to the 15-minute mark on a full-season average with him getting more ice time in the second half as he shows some improvement.  At some point, I think they'll try him shorthanded a little bit which would open up a bit more ice time and depending on injuries, there could be opportunities for more playing time there as well.  I can understand the frustration in that a top youngster isn't playing a ton but I honestly think it's a prudent decision at the moment so I'm not particularly concerned with his usage yet.

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Yeah, I think patience is a good thing.   I don't think 13 minutes a game is poor ice time. 

 

As long as he's getting more than 10 minutes, its better in the NHL against top notch competition than 18 in the AHL or Finland. 

 

He's developing well IMO.

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You need to not stress about things too much at this stage of his career. He hasn't been benched, and he'll still be developing for a number of years.

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He's on the garbage line, first he gets teamed with Armia and Drouin(both not living up to expectation till this season), and when they get hot, they get them off his line and the next to stonecold players are teamed up with him(lehkonen and Byron). This way you cant get going. You dont get chemistry, and you cant play great hockey. Not your best anyway.

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2 hours ago, Dutch_Habs_Fan said:

He's on the garbage line, first he gets teamed with Armia and Drouin(both not living up to expectation till this season), and when they get hot, they get them off his line and the next to stonecold players are teamed up with him(lehkonen and Byron). This way you cant get going. You dont get chemistry, and you cant play great hockey. Not your best anyway.

I guess this is part of my concern.

 

they are definitely not handling him right 

 

wasting his development in what’s likely a middling .500 year. We aren’t a cup contender. He’s the future 

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I dont see playing 12 minutes a game in the nhl at 19 as wasted development at all.

 

I also dont see why throwing him to the wolves and expecting him to play 18 is seen as the only way to develop him and if he plays less than that he's being handled poorly 

 

The current habs coach developped an 19 year old Bergeron and did it behind Marc Savard who was getting the biggest minutes at that time.  Krejci was also developed under him and marchand, lucic, pastranak, kessel, seguin, etc.

 

With Bergerin, Lucic, Pastranak, Kessel, Seguin, these are 4 kids in the nhl at 19 years old and on the B's 3rd line or lower at that time.  They all developed.

 

Krejci and marchand also started as bottom six guys and worked their way up.

 

Lets also give this coaching staff some credit when it comes to Drouin, guy is night and day different as a player from last season.  They seem to have done a good job with Danault too.  Danault was a 3rd/4th line guy when Julien took over.  Hes helped him along.

 

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12 hours ago, KK_Niemi15 said:

11 minutes again tonight. 11:03 to be exact. No counting stats at all again. Man...0

 

I suspect he was benched for a bit after he completely bungled his defensive zone coverage on Kerfoot in the second period and left him wide open in front for two good chances.  It's his defence that's going to keep him on the ice on what is basically a checking line at the moment (with Lehkonen and Byron) and that was a pretty glaring mistake.  It happens.

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I like the kid and don't mind if he is eased in over a period of years, provided he's not riding the bench. That said, it's far from obvious that it's better to develop that way as opposed to marinading and dominating in the minors.

 

I also don't think his ascent to stardom, or at least #1C, is a given. I heard exactly the same sort of stuff, including from some knowledgable posters on this site, about Galchenyuk: he is developing properly, he is blue-chip, can't-miss, he can be relied upon to become an impact player, a surefire star and probable #1C for us, etc.. Instead he never became more than what he appeared to be all along. A talented kid with zero hockey IQ who is probably best cast as a #5-6 FW.

 

Yes, KoKo has promise. But frankly if he tops out as a useful two-way 55-point  #2C I would not fall out of my chair in shock. 

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11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I like the kid and don't mind if he is eased in over a period of years, provided he's not riding the bench. That said, it's far from obvious that it's better to develop that way as opposed to marinading and dominating in the minors.

 

I also don't think his ascent to stardom, or at least #1C, is a given. I heard exactly the same sort of stuff, including from some knowledgable posters on this site, about Galchenyuk: he is developing properly, he is blue-chip, can't-miss, he can be relied upon to become an impact player, a surefire star and probable #1C for us, etc.. Instead he never became more than what he appeared to be all along. A talented kid with zero hockey IQ who is probably best cast as a #5-6 FW.

 

Yes, KoKo has promise. But frankly if he tops out as a useful two-way 55-point  #2C I would not fall out of my chair in shock. 

 

It's more the guys who are playing over him. Why Thompson you know?


And KK's best tool might be his hockey IQ. He certainly shouldn't be taking steps backward his age-19 season; with what he show last year, IMO. I feel that we have the wrong type of coach to develop KK in Claude Julien. If this were a cup contender; then you play KK 11-13 min a night buried like he is (Bruins you mentioned were loaded, we are not). With how we are; a middling team that may not make playoffs, you have to use these years as formative to develop guys like KK and see what you have. You don't hamper development with the guys getting minutes over him right now. Its a crime.

 

I think his floor is a 60-70  point center. ceiling is a 90-100 pt franchise center. 

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Your assumption is that playing him 12 minutes a night is hampering development.  I dont know that such an assumption is true. 

 

Development doesnt mean putting him into situations he isnt ready for and just letting it happen.  There is a lot more to it than that.

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9 hours ago, Commandant said:

Your assumption is that playing him 12 minutes a night is hampering development.  I dont know that such an assumption is true. 

 

Development doesnt mean putting him into situations he isnt ready for and just letting it happen.  There is a lot more to it than that.

No concern about icetime.

Thompson plays bottom six centre, where defense, forechecking is important and winning faceoffs when needed, The kid still learning to play without puck and also isnt good enough offensively to have Domi or Danault demoted. Suzuki is getting lots of PP icetime, Kotkaniemi's PP time has been cutback this year and PP is working well.

After Feb they can likely increase his icetime, or once injuries come along.

 

If he was on the Senators, not doubt he would be playing alot more.

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