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Koivu talking contract...


puck7x

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Well the talks have started between the habs and his agent...

http://www.rds.ca/cgi-bin/nouvelles?site=r...on&sport=#82922

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RDS has learnt that talks between Saku Koivu and the Canadiens have officially started.

The agent of Saku Koivu , Don Baisley has met with Bob Gainey in the past few days. The negotiations will continue when Saku Koivu returns from vacation.

Koivu is looking for a contract that would pay him 5 million dollars per season.

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GO GAINEY! :)

Sign the RFA's! Koivu , Markov , etc...

[Edited on 2003-6-26 by puck7x]

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5 millions should not be a problem.. What would be interesting is for how many years will be the contract.

1 year again? I don't think it would be respectfully from Habs to do it again. And for Koivu it would be better more than a year because of the CBA.

Might not be more than 3 years.. since he would be eligible for UFA.

I say 2 or 3 years..

2 years for 5 millions each and club's option on the third year at 6 millions.

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The Koivu signing is really tricky.

- On the one hand you have the health issue. He has always signed 1 year deals because he had been injured the previous year, which prevented him from putting up the numbers he needed to ask for a salary that equaled his talent.

Now he had an injury free season, but it's just one season. It also followed a year's rest from hockey, even if the treatments were hard his small body did not have to endure the pounding of an 82 games sched the year before.

So in the Habs' mind, is one year enough to think it would be safe to lock up their captain with a long-term deal?.. (I'm talking 4-5 years)

In terms of the player (not health), I think we can agree Koivu is a safe investment... he is not the type to go in tank after signing a long-term deal.

Or given all the problems the Habs are having with being stuck with contracts... will they be more at ease with a 2-3 year deal?

- That brings me to point 2... I've heard on many occasions that when the new CBA is negotiated, if there is some sort of salary cap the NHLPA will want the UFA age to be lowered to 28 in exchange.

So if we sign Koivu for 2-3 years - for the contract to end before he becomes a UFA at 31 - and the UFA age is suddendly lowered to 28, then in 2-3 years we'll be having to pay Koivu more than we anticipated he being a UFA.

So do you figure "let's just lock him up long-term and not take any chances" or "long-term is too risky for a guy with his health track record, 2-3 years is enough and we'll deal with the 28 UFA age if and when it happens".

P.S. As we all agree we had a bad team last year, and that the future looks a lot brighter... you could look at it saying we better sign him long-term now, because soon he'll start playing with more talented wingers and his numbers will likely increase if he stays healthy.

[Edited on 26-6-03 by Habs77]

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I dont see your point Habs77 , how is it risky to sign him to a longterm deal if he is a health concern?

It would be more of a risk if he was an inconsistant player ...

Insurance would cover the habs for any longterm injury Koivu could suffer , so its no biggie...

Go for it! Lock him up long term!

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Originally posted by puck7x

I dont see your point Habs77 , how is it risky to sign him to a longterm deal if he is a health concern?

It would be more of a risk if he was an inconsistant player ...

Insurance would cover the habs for any longterm injury Koivu could suffer , so its no biggie...

Koivu has had a few 50-60 game seasons, are the Habs compensated for for every game a player misses because of injury... or does he have to miss a certain number of games, frankly I don't know how it works but I wouldn't assume insurance covers all the harm done if Koivu returns to his injury-plagued self in the future.

Another point is that when players have injuries, even when they come back they are not themselves for some time. Look at Audette... he was doing fine before the awful injury and now we're stuck with a broken player & insurance is not helping us.

There is a risk in signing injury prone players to big money long term deals, believe me.

Just ask the Flyers how much insurance is helping them with LeClair's back problems affecting his performance. Zip. Now they'll have to eat a good part of 9M per just to get out of the ulgy situation that long-term contract put them in.

That was my point, well one of my points anyway. :)

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Yes players do need to miss a certain amount of games/days to be covered by insurance... though I am not sure of the exact details (probably varies from player to player)

And I dont think Audette is a good example of a longterm contract that was ruined by injuries ... Audette suffered a fluke injury , a one in a million injury... If we sign Koivu to a 4 year deal the chances of him suffering an injury like that are very small... (The risk for Koivu is no greater then the risk of every other player in the NHL)

LeClair is older then Saku , plus plays a more physical game and gets lots of abuse from opposing players , not comparable really , Koivu hasnt been injured in over 2 years in case you havent noticed :) ... Plus Koivu wouldnt be getting 9 million per year.

Based on Koivu's age & performance I'd be comfortable signing him to a 3/4 year deal.

[Edited on 2003/6/27 by puck7x]

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Originally posted by puck7x

And I dont think Audette is a good example of a longterm contract that was ruined by injuries ... Audette suffered a fluke injury , a one in a million injury...

Whether it's a fluke injury or a more "regular" type of injury, if the player is no longer the same when he comes back for a significant period of time the fact is you're left paying someone for something he can no longer do... and hence that is a risk that insurance won't be able to bail you out from.

Audette is a perfect example of that.

LeClair is older then Saku , plus plays a more physical game and gets lots of abuse from opposing players , not comparable really

Are you kidding?... Koivu takes more abuse out there than most, and his is a 15 year old's body so it doesn't take as much to put him out of commission.

The fact that he doesn't have a big winger to look out for him just increases the chances that opposition players will take liberties with him, as they've always done.

Koivu hasnt been injured in over 2 years in case you havent noticed :) ...

Oh, now you're counting the year he didn't even play?... hehe, well I hope he managed not to get injured while lying on a bed.

So in reality he managed one year without injury, not two, and that injury-free year came on the back of a complete year where his body did not have to endure the pounding of an NHL season.

In his whole carreer he has yet to play back to back injury free seasons. That's the reality.

Anyway, in terms of signing him I'm too worried... even when he'll become a UFA whether at 31 or 28.

Unlike many European players, he's loyal... and the organization has been loyal to him as well.

I don't anticipate a Zednik or Markov type negotiation, which is refreshing.

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and hence that is a risk that insurance won't be able to bail you out from.

Audette is a perfect example of that.

So what? The risk is there for every player in the league ... If GM's cared so much about the risk of a fluke injury then they wouldnt give out 4 year contracts ... GM's know what the risk is , and they take it.

Are you kidding?... Koivu takes more abuse out there than most, and his is a 15 year old's body so it doesn't take as much to put him out of commission.

The fact that he doesn't have a big winger to look out for him just increases the chances that opposition players will take liberties with him, as they've always done.

Compared to LeClair Koivu doesnt take nearly as much ... Have you ever seen the kind of abuse John takes in front of the net on a powerplay? He gets hacked and slashed and cross-checked ... And because he's so big and hardly moves the refs let the other guys get away with it and keep doing it.

Oh, now you're counting the year he didn't even play?... hehe, well I hope he managed not to get injured while lying on a bed.

So in reality he managed one year without injury, not two, and that injury-free year came on the back of a complete year where his body did not have to endure the pounding of an NHL season.

A YEAR? Well maybe he didnt PLAY for a year , but he trained alot ... And I am sure that he had a high risk of injury from training in his condition (post-chemo) ...

He trained during the summer of 01 before he got cancer , then he got cancer... then in February he began training again for his comeback... So thats about 5/6 months... half a year ... and he hasnt been injured since then either.

Lets just get the guy signed... 2 years , 3 years , 4 years ... whatever...

Give him Theodore money , no more and no less.

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Originally posted by puck7x

So what? The risk is there for every player in the league ... If GM's cared so much about the risk of a fluke injury then they wouldnt give out 4 year contracts ... GM's know what the risk is , and they take it.

There's nothing fluke about a guy getting injured every single year except his first and last.

Compared to LeClair Koivu doesnt take nearly as much ... Have you ever seen the kind of abuse John takes in front of the net on a powerplay? He gets hacked and slashed and cross-checked

Koivu gets the same abuse, only difference is he goes down after the first or second blow while LeClair stays up... his little body has shown it can't take the abuse year in year out.

For his sake and our own I hope that will finally change, but as of right now we have no reason to believe it will.

A YEAR? Well maybe he didnt PLAY for a year , but he trained alot ... And I am sure that he had a high risk of injury from training in his condition (post-chemo) ...

He trained during the summer of 01 before he got cancer , then he got cancer... then in February he began training again for his comeback... So thats about 5/6 months... half a year ... and he hasnt been injured since then either.

?? Now you're talking training?.. what the ???

It's called NHL hockey, if he didn't play it... then it can't count for saying "look he was healthy" for that time.

Gimme a break, you're stretching like hell here... we could also take that from ages 0 to 10 he suffered no serious injuries. It would have no more to do with him proving he can endure NHL play but what the hell

;)

How ever long we sign him for... getting some size on his line is critical. As long Audette is here that probably won't happen and I'll be very nervous about Koivu's health.

Even if it might a stretch, I'd be in favor of putting Ward on the 1st line...

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There's nothing fluke about a guy getting injured every single year except his first and last.

Uhhh? Werent we talking about the Audette wrist injury at first? (About how he hasnt been the same player since then) You went off-track. I'm saying that the risk of Koivu (or any other player) suffering an Audette-type injury is very low...

Koivu gets the same abuse, only difference is he goes down after the first or second blow while LeClair stays up... his little body has shown it can't take the abuse year in year out.

For his sake and our own I hope that will finally change, but as of right now we have no reason to believe it will.

Well I disagree , I still say LeClair takes more abuse... but its a matter of personal opinion I guess , no point debating it.

?? Now you're talking training?.. what the ???

It's called NHL hockey, if he didn't play it... then it can't count for saying "look he was healthy" for that time.

Gimme a break, you're stretching like hell here... we could also take that from ages 0 to 10 he suffered no serious injuries. It would have no more to do with him proving he can endure NHL play but what the hell

It counts in my books , lots of players injure themselves while training... so its valid , maybe the not same as NHL game-action , but training still poses an injury-risk.

Even when you take out the months of training Koivu has been healthy for over a season (02 playoffs , 02-03 season) ... Thats impressive considering his history.

How ever long we sign him for... getting some size on his line is critical. As long Audette is here that probably won't happen and I'll be very nervous about Koivu's health.

Even if it might a stretch, I'd be in favor of putting Ward on the 1st line...

I am all for Ward on the top line , Zednik-Koivu-Ward could work out well...

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Dont give him 5M a year, he definetly doesnt deserve it. That would be really overpaying him, the guy had one GOOD season, not an excellent one and hes too often injured. Hes not exactly a good captain either. I love the guy but if theo got 5M after a hart trophy, then Koivu shouldnt get the same money for a first time 71 points. 4M max, he cant even go against the best center in the league and lets be realistic, its not always the wingers fault. If Koivu tries the comparables, he will never get his 5M because alot of better players arent getting it.

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Originally posted by Habsaku

Dont give him 5M a year, he definetly doesnt deserve it. That would be really overpaying him, the guy had one GOOD season, not an excellent one and hes too often injured. Hes not exactly a good captain either. I love the guy but if theo got 5M after a hart trophy, then Koivu shouldnt get the same money for a first time 71 points. 4M max, he cant even go against the best center in the league and lets be realistic, its not always the wingers fault. If Koivu tries the comparables, he will never get his 5M because alot of better players arent getting it.

I would call Koivu's season an "Excellent" one , consider what who he did it... First of all he played 82 games after surviving Cancer which is pretty impressive in itself , and ontop of that he got 71 points while playing the entire season with inferior linemates on a crap team , with a crap powerplay ... And he was always being targeted by the opposition...

I would rather give him 4 million , but what choice do we have? He wants Theodore money , he's an RFA , he knows we need him... he has alot of leverage.

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Koivu ar 5M a year is worth it. Even after the new CBA, he still wont be worth less than that, so it is safe to sign him long term.

Yes, he had quite a few injuries early in his career, but I wouldn't call him injury prone. He was throwing his body around too much, and now he's learned better. Yes, it's fun to go after Lindros even if you're small, but when Lindros gets back at you, it hurts. Also, if we give him so tough guy to play with him (I guess that would be Ward right now) he'll be just fine.

Also, at this point, maybe Koivu would be a huge barfain at 5M. He's still to show how good he really is, and when paired with some guys that actually have talent, he'll be great. He still finished in the top league scorers this year while playing with average to crappy players.

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