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Is our plan flawed?


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Don’t get me wrong, I give Bergevin full credit on the return he got for Pacioretty and galchenyuk. 

 

But i also understand why those trades were made. He mishandled the team and had to trade Pacioretty because of it to full other hole's.

 

The galchenyuk trade for Domi, he traded one problem for the exact same problem. Which is why at the time a lot of people didn't understand it at the time. But it ended up working in Bergevin favor because Domi turned his career around.

 

He has made good move's and bad one's. But i for one am not going to act like he's the best GM in the world.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I love Price. He has been a great Montreal Canadien, perhaps the only Canadien of the past 25 years who can stand with the greats of the past. 

 

But you know what? If he went to Bergy tomorrow and said, 'I want out,' I'm not sure that would be such a terrible thing, assuming we could find a taker. It seems obvious that we are years away from doing anything, and making the playoffs does not seem to be an urgent priority for this GM. What is the point of saying Carey Price will have a quality team in front of him when he's 36? Why a 36-year-old Price rather than some other quality starter at that point? 

 

Anyway, I doubt Price will leave, and who knows, maybe he will get one more kick at the can before it's all over. If I were him, however, I'd want out.

I agree with you 100%. Price and Weber should be on team's contending for the cup. Not on a rebuilding team like we are.

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17 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

I can agree with that.  But he still would have been a full-time NHL'er at 19 in that scenario (stays CHL at 18, then goes NHL at 19) and generally full-time NHL players don't get assigned to the minors a year later.

 

Perhaps it's because I was never sold on Galchenyuk being an elite scorer (I remember saying he'd be a 55-60 point player - which, had he been able to play C, wouldn't have been half bad) but I think his situation is more on him than the development program.  At the time he was traded, there were reports saying his father was telling him to ignore what the team wanted him to do and gave Galchenyuk his own list of stuff to do.  That isn't to absolve the Habs entirely as he could have been handled better but his failure to develop into a core piece isn't just on them.

I’m not absolving galchenyuk from responsibility, I just think the habs stack the odds of prospects failing or becoming premadonnas (rineiro and latendresse) by rushing them either by necessity or PR reason.  I think we’d be better served letting them players improve and mature and get more playing time than playing them 12-14 min as 18 to 20 year olds.

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The Scandella trade and Kovalchuk signing are clear moves to address the injuries and save the season - and while these moves are not blockbusters they have 0 risk and 0 cost.

 

Moves like this tell me that MB is not about to rebuild (meaning trading Price for example).

 

I think that we are stuck in this "re-tool" and hopefully one of the new guys catches fire.

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17 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Your not listening his not adding top talent to this team his trading talent for talent.

 

Got Weber for Subban that's not adding 

 

Got Suzuki and Tatar by trading Pacioretty that's not adding 

 

He got Domi by trading galchenyuk not adding 

 

Only top players he added to this team without taking away from it was Drouin and Danault.

This is amusing.

Although I am still not a Bergevin fan, he has done an outstanding job of acquiring talent for nothing or winning trades. 

Armia for cap space= Mtl 1 Jets 0

Danault and the pick that became Romanov for Fleishman and Weise Mtl 2 Chi 0

Suzuki, Tatar and the pick that became Mattius Norlinder and Jacob Leguerrier for Pacioretty 

Mtl 2 VGK 1 but has the potential to be a huge win for Mtl

Kulak for nothing  Mtl 1 Cal 0

Byron Waivers Mtl 1 Cal 0

Drouin actually cost us a significant asset in Sergachev Mtl 1 TBL 1 Winner TBD 

 

In his actual 3rd/ 4th line trades

Weal for Chaput Mtl 1 Ari 0

Thompson and a 5th for a 4th Mtl 1 LA 0

Cousins Ufa signing 

Barber ufa

Folin and Weise for Froese and Schelmco

Mtl 1 (.5 for each player) Phi 0

 

Now if he could only work his magic for a Backup goaltender and a better LD than Scandella

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Ok. Here is a cup of chill for you all. Did anyone on this board look at the lineup we were icing in September and think playoffs were a given? 

We are probably 2 years away from our bluechips giving us a solid shot at contention. Any move that jeopardises that should be the only thing to get the GM fired. We have managed to compete last season and so far this season in spite of our lineup being patchy. That is promising and we have secured some vets that will be key with our youth going forward. 

The idea of moving Armia, Tatar and the likes at deadline is asinine to say the least. These vets will be needing a needed going forward if we are to compete in the next 2 years. 

The future may not be now but  I feel better about it now than I have in years.

Go Habs Go 

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Tatar has played well and will be a UFA after the next season so this would be when his value is the highest. Gallagher, Danault, Armia and Petry, too, are close to UFA. It would be crazy to trade Gallagher, though, and I can't see Bergevin doing that, and I wouldn't think Danault or Armia would be on the block, either, but Petry could be a possibility.

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5 hours ago, johnnyhasbeen said:

Ok. Here is a cup of chill for you all. Did anyone on this board look at the lineup we were icing in September and think playoffs were a given? 

We are probably 2 years away from our bluechips giving us a solid shot at contention. Any move that jeopardises that should be the only thing to get the GM fired. We have managed to compete last season and so far this season in spite of our lineup being patchy. That is promising and we have secured some vets that will be key with our youth going forward. 

The idea of moving Armia, Tatar and the likes at deadline is asinine to say the least. These vets will be needing a needed going forward if we are to compete in the next 2 years. 

The future may not be now but  I feel better about it now than I have in years.

Go Habs Go 

This is the point we're not retooling we're rebuilding. If we're not going to be playoff contending for another 3 years do we need Price and Weber on this team?

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On 1/3/2020 at 8:41 AM, Habsfan89 said:

Don’t get me wrong, I give Bergevin full credit on the return he got for Pacioretty and galchenyuk. 

 

But i also understand why those trades were made. He mishandled the team and had to trade Pacioretty because of it to full other hole's.

 

The galchenyuk trade for Domi, he traded one problem for the exact same problem. Which is why at the time a lot of people didn't understand it at the time. But it ended up working in Bergevin favor because Domi turned his career around.

 

He has made good move's and bad one's. But i for one am not going to act like he's the best GM in the world.

 

I don't think anyone on the board is acting like MB is the best GM in the world, based on the success of the team he is not.  I just get tired of the continual bashing where some posters constantly  berate him for every failure without giving him credit for the good things he has done.  I personally think that he has smartened up the last couple years and now we have a good prospect pool and good young players coming up, we didn't have that before.   There is hope now, I don't think there was much hope a couple years ago,

or at least I am much more hopeful about their future,  can't speak for everyone else.

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12 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I don't think anyone on the board is acting like MB is the best GM in the world, based on the success of the team he is not.  I just get tired of the continual bashing where some posters constantly  berate him for every failure without giving him credit for the good things he has done.  I personally think that he has smartened up the last couple years and now we have a good prospect pool and good young players coming up, we didn't have that before.   There is hope now, I don't think there was much hope a couple years ago,

or at least I am much more hopeful about their future,  can't speak for everyone else.

 

I was hopeful about the future in 2014, when we had a very good team that was knocking on the door (and which, of course, MB comically failed to do anything with, except watch it disintegrate).

 

I don't get excited about hypotheticals. Let me know when the magical three-year window is actually here.

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20 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I don't think anyone on the board is acting like MB is the best GM in the world, based on the success of the team he is not.  I just get tired of the continual bashing where some posters constantly  berate him for every failure without giving him credit for the good things he has done.  I personally think that he has smartened up the last couple years and now we have a good prospect pool and good young players coming up, we didn't have that before.   There is hope now, I don't think there was much hope a couple years ago,

or at least I am much more hopeful about their future,  can't speak for everyone else.

There's the flip side too to this which gets me mad and I understand where you coming because there's poster on here that won't admit to the bad things Bergevin does and thinks everything he does turns too gold.

I try to see both the good and bad and will point them both out.

 

Theres some that just want to bash him and there's some who want to make him a saint.

 

Yes he has done good over the last 2 years with the future of this team. But does that erase everything bad he has done?  no it doesn't. Bottom line ....it will always be the on ice product of the NHL team and it isn't very good and that's why people will Continue to bash him.

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2 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

There's the flip side too to this which gets me mad and I understand where you coming because there's poster on here that won't admit to the bad things Bergevin does and thinks everything he does turns too gold.

I try to see both the good and bad and will point them both out.

 

Theres some that just want to bash him and there's some who want to make him a saint.

 

Yes he has done good over the last 2 years with the future of this team. But does that erase everything bad he has done?  no it doesn't. Bottom line it will always be the on ice product of the NHL team and it isn't very good and that's why people will bash Continue to bash him.

 

For me I try and focus on what he should be doing now. We can't change what he did 3 or 4 or 5 years ago so I am not going to dwell too much on it. I like what he has done the last couple years (except for the Sergachev trade, maybe that will turn out but I am doubtful, Alzner signing was a bust). The reality is that MB is the GM, he seems to have support from Molson to take a long term approach and I hope he makes the right moves to build something sustainable.  We can complain about the past but we can't change it. 

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2 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

For me I try and focus on what he should be doing now. We can't change what he did 3 or 4 or 5 years ago so I am not going to dwell too much on it. I like what he has done the last couple years (except for the Sergachev trade, maybe that will turn out but I am doubtful, Alzner signing was a bust). The reality is that MB is the GM, he seems to have support from Molson to take a long term approach and I hope he makes the right moves to build something sustainable.  We can complain about the past but we can't change it. 

Yeah but when the past keeps repeatting itself you can. That's part of the problem.  Nothing has changed with the on ice product in 7 years. That's why people bash him. He doesn't just run the farm system he runs the NHL team as well. Has he improved the future of this team i think he has. We're now top what 5 in the league for prospects.  Since he bought into the new NHL he's made better picks. But over that time has he improved the on ice product of the team? No he hasn't we continue to miss the playoffs and be a none factor. That's where all frustration of the fans come from.

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13 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Yeah but when the past keeps repeatting itself you can. That's part of the problem.  Nothing has changed with the on ice product in 7 years. That's why people bash him. He doesn't just run the farm system he runs the NHL team as well. Has he improved the future of this team i think he has. We're now top what 5 in the league for prospects.  Since he bought into the new NHL he's made better picks. But over that time has he improved the on ice product of the team? No he hasn't we continue to miss the playoffs and be a none factor. That's where all frustration of the fans come from.

 

Fans can jump on and off the bandwagon pretty quickly.  I think most on this board were pretty optimistic after winning 3 of 4 on their western road trip.  They looked to be in pretty good shape. Then a bad 10 day stretch completed changed the narrative. Last year they had 96 points!!  Most years that would get you in the playoffs. I thought they were a pretty exciting team last year but some here make it sound like they were awful. Much work to do but I honestly believe they are headed in the right direction. 

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10 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Fans can jump on and off the bandwagon pretty quickly.  I think most on this board were pretty optimistic after winning 3 of 4 on their western road trip.  They looked to be in pretty good shape. Then a bad 10 day stretch completed changed the narrative. Last year they had 96 points!!  Most years that would get you in the playoffs. I thought they were a pretty exciting team last year but some here make it sound like they were awful. Much work to do but I honestly believe they are headed in the right direction. 

Yeah why did we miss the playoffs last year? Because he didn't add to the team. It gets frustrating when you see other teams improve but yours.

 

Like I have been saying if you want to go with the young guys call it a full rebuild and be a lottery pick team.

 

Don't string the fans along and give them false hope.

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3 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Don't string the fans along and give them false hope.

Yes, I suppose in October Bergy should of stepped up to mic, "We are hopeless this year, for how long who knows; but, please keep buying tickets and support the team.":wall:

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4 minutes ago, DON said:

Yes, I suppose in October Bergy should of stepped up to mic, "We are hopeless this year, for how long who knows; but, please keep buying tickets and support the team.":wall:

Wow learn to read...... If it's a rebuild and your going with youth say it's a rebuild end of story.

Don't say it a reset but then don't improve the on ice product.

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

Yeah but when the past keeps repeatting itself you can. That's part of the problem.  Nothing has changed with the on ice product in 7 years. That's why people bash him. He doesn't just run the farm system he runs the NHL team as well. Has he improved the future of this team i think he has. We're now top what 5 in the league for prospects.  Since he bought into the new NHL he's made better picks. But over that time has he improved the on ice product of the team? No he hasn't we continue to miss the playoffs and be a none factor. That's where all frustration of the fans come from.

Missing the playoffs as often as we have, we Should have SOME good prospects.  The sad part is that our best one is from a trade Suzuki).  Well have to wait and see on Caufield, who will hopefully be at least as good as debrincat (who we could have drafted if we didn’t trade for SHaw).

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46 minutes ago, DON said:

Yes, I suppose in October Bergy should of stepped up to mic, "We are hopeless this year, for how long who knows; but, please keep buying tickets and support the team.":wall:

No he should have said “Molson fire me and keep paying me for the good of the team - because it’s all about team and I’m a team first guy”

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

No he should have said “Molson fire me and keep paying me for the good of the team - because it’s all about team and I’m a team first guy”

No he should of said this is a full rebuild. Which means Price, Weber and Petry are all available for trade and we will be a lottery pick team for the next 3 years. I would  of been totally on board and not care about the on ice product.

 

But he said this is a reset. Which means The on ice product should still be competitive. Which it isn't and that's why he doesn't get a pass from me on the on ice product. He does get a pass on the drafting and prospect reset, but not the on ice reset. 

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31 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

No he should of said this is a full rebuild. Which means Price, Weber and Petry are all available for trade and we will be a lottery pick team for the next 3 years. I will of been totally on board and not care about the on ice product.

 

But he said this is a reset. Which means The on ice product should still be competitive. Which it isn't and that's why he doesn't get a pass from me on the on ice product. He does get a pass on the drafting and prospect reset, but not the on ice reset. 

 

You don't think they were competitive last year?  They were very competitive this year (except for the last 10 days).  I could care less whether he calls it a reset, rebuild or retool. I just want MB to make good decisions going forward so they can compete for the cup again. 

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Just now, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

You don't think they were competitive last year?  They were very competitive this year (except for the last 10 days).  I could care less whether he calls it a reset, rebuild or retool. I just want MB to make good decisions going forward so they can compete for the cup again. 

He didn't do anything to improve them last year when other teams in our division did. Which is why we ended up missing the playoffs. Then in the off season Did nothing to address hole's. So no to me he didn't do a good job with the on ice product.

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16 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

He didn't do anything to improve them last year when other teams in our division did. Which is why we ended up missing the playoffs. Then in the off season Did nothing to address hole's. So no to me he didn't do a good job with the on ice product.

 

He got Domi last year, he got Armia last year.  I think those 2 additions definitely improved the team last year. 

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