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Battle of the Titans 7:30 Jan7 2020

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6 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Speaking of Roy would you give him full control of the team like he wants ? That's if Molson cleans house.

I don’t want Roy or McGuire as the GM.  Roy’s Colorado experience doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence.

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6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Price told MB last year that his window was closing and he wanted to have a chance to win a Cup.

 

I would not be at all surprised if he is weighing whether to exit.

Hes been horrible 50% of all games this year. 30% average and 20% good. When are we gonna stop blaming the defense and start pointing to the goalie?  Are we seriously putting  Price up on a pedestal cause of his performance in 2015 ??? Hes been no good for 3 seasons going on 4 for the most part.... and hes fed up? What a joke

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21 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Hes been horrible 50% of all games this year. 30% average and 20% good. When are we gonna stop blaming the defense and start pointing to the goalie?  Are we seriously putting  Price up on a pedestal cause of his performance in 2015 ??? Hes been no good for 3 seasons going on 4 for the most part.... and hes fed up? What a joke

 

Since the day he started playing for the Habs the entire strategy was to let Price stand on his head, game after game, season after season. Here we are with an older Price who is facing even more dangerous shots and way too many odd man rushes every fricking game. I suspect that Cucumber might be correct that Price is tired and needs more rest.

 

I wanted the playoffs bad this year and MB should have helped the team during the summer but he waited too long. Our injuries are severe and we are looking at very little chance of playoffs.

 

I am officially on the tank train.

 

We should be strategic sellers and start stockpiling for the future.

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7 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Speaking of Roy would you give him full control of the team like he wants ? That's if Molson cleans house.

 

No.  Not even if he was the last GM candidate on earth.  There is a reason that no NHL team has come sniffing after he bailed on Colorado after he couldn't get his way. 

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50 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

Since the day he started playing for the Habs the entire strategy was to let Price stand on his head, game after game, season after season. Here we are with an older Price who is facing even more dangerous shots and way too many odd man rushes every fricking game. I suspect that Cucumber might be correct that Price is tired and needs more rest.

 

I wanted the playoffs bad this year and MB should have helped the team during the summer but he waited too long. Our injuries are severe and we are looking at very little chance of playoffs.

 

I am officially on the tank train.

 

We should be strategic sellers and start stockpiling for the future.

Is it just tank for this year or does this team need a total rebuild. Not reset or retool. Blow up the core and rebuild? We have some good young players but hole's all over the team.

Danault 

Domi 

Kotkaniemi 

Suzuki 

Poehling 

Mete 

Caufield 

Primeau 

Gallagher 

Should all be none tradeable . Everyone else get as much 1st round picks and top end prospects as you can get. If we don't get the first overall pick we should put ourselves in a position to trade for it.

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11 hours ago, Trizzak said:

If you're referring to selling pure rentals, those few players are Kovalchuk, Scandella, and Thompson. Not a great haul of prospects coming back there.

 

If you're thinking more in the way of selling guys with term, we'll see if management has decided they don't want to try for a playoff spot next year if guys like Weber, Tatar, or Petry get dealt. 

You forgot Weise and Byron who are sure to get us a first round pick 

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11 hours ago, Trizzak said:

If you're referring to selling pure rentals, those few players are Kovalchuk, Scandella, and Thompson. Not a great haul of prospects coming back there.

 

If you're thinking more in the way of selling guys with term, we'll see if management has decided they don't want to try for a playoff spot next year if guys like Weber, Tatar, or Petry get dealt. 


Well I think Thompson should probably be shopped, Scandella and Kovalchuk I’m not sure, they might be able to help short term.

 

I’m not advocating a full sell off, we still need veterans on the team as multiple people have pointed out. I think we should keep Weber and Price but Petry I honestly think we should consider, he would surely bring back a first and or a top prospect, Tatar should be considered as well, even though he is a top 6 forward that is still relatively young enough to help the team short and long term. I’m not a fan of selling off everything and honestly I don’t think it’s needed, this is a good team when they are healthy and on point, they just need more skill and need to continue drafting and developing it over the next few years.

 

Edit: Having another first in this years draft would be great considering how deep it is this year, enter Jeff Petry.

 

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

No.  Not even if he was the last GM candidate on earth.  There is a reason that no NHL team has come sniffing after he bailed on Colorado after he couldn't get his way. 

 

Agreed. Roy will be a disaster. Anyhow, if Bergevin wasn't fired after demonstrating massive incompetence until about 2017, he will not be fired now.

 

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

Since the day he started playing for the Habs the entire strategy was to let Price stand on his head, game after game, season after season. Here we are with an older Price who is facing even more dangerous shots and way too many odd man rushes every fricking game. I suspect that Cucumber might be correct that Price is tired and needs more rest.

 

I wanted the playoffs bad this year and MB should have helped the team during the summer but he waited too long. Our injuries are severe and we are looking at very little chance of playoffs.

 

 

Yep. Price can't carry a team on his back any more. But I'll bet that if you scale back his starts, you'll start to see a top-5 NHL goalie again. Of course, MB is our GM, which means that getting a quality #2 is "too tough."

 

All that said, as I suggested in another thread, I would move Price if he does want out. The team is years away from contending and a 37-year-old Price is unlikely to be vastly better than some other legit #1 starter. Let him go where he can have the quality of supporting cast he deserves, and see what you can get back for him.

 

 

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Scale back his time and get him a team that can play defense

 

Not sure what thread is best but it's a sad state of affairs that a washed up player, that just had months off because nobody wanted him played over 20 minutes last night, OUCH

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I don’t see Price getting moved. There’s too much sentimentality going around when offering up the suggestion that we should trade him. Things along the lines of “let’s give him a chance to play on a team that can contend” should in no way, shape, or form come into consideration when deciding whether or not we should move him. I believe that on a contending team, Price will be able to win a cup for many years to come. Including a contending Habs team.
 

Hasek won the Stanley cup in 2002 at the age of 37, and 41 year old Dwayne Rolloson brought an 8th seeded Edmonton team to the cup final in 2006.

 

While the Hasek comparable is more accurate than the latter, the point is that Price will certainly be capable of winning a championship in even 5+ years.  Partially because like the fact that Hasek was Hasek, Price is Price.  Let’s forget about his window because while it sounds nice, it isn’t there. This is coming from someone who acknowledges that Price hasn’t been himself on and off for years. 

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I'm sorry you had to make a GDT for this game. What a waste.

 

25% of Detroit's wins, have come from Montreal. 

 

At what point do people start getting fired? This must be the only franchise to allow an 8 game losing streak and now an on going 7 game losing streak, with management still sitting pretty. 

 

4% chance to make the playoffs, yet the Bergevin lovers will continue to find excuses for this clown. 

 

If Kotkaniemi stays up with Montreal, they're going to damage this kid. I said months ago he should be in Laval, the kid is lost out there; Poehling is the same way.... Very unlikely either of these guys get sent down, but man, don't damage these kids. 

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40 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

I'm sorry you had to make a GDT for this game. What a waste.

 

25% of Detroit's wins, have come from Montreal. 

 

At what point do people start getting fired? This must be the only franchise to allow a 9 game losing streak and now an ongoing 7 game losing streak, with management still sitting pretty. 

 

4% chance to make the playoffs, yet the Bergevin lovers will continue to find excuses for this clown. 

 

If Kotkaniemi stays up with Montreal, they're going to damage this kid. I said months ago he should be in Laval, the kid is lost out there; Poehling is the same way.... Very unlikely either of these guys get sent down, but man, don't damage these kids. 

 

No one is getting fired. That'd be my expectation, anyway.

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49 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I don’t see Price getting moved. There’s too much sentimentality going around when offering up the suggestion that we should trade him. Things along the lines of “let’s give him a chance to play on a team that can contend” should in no way, shape, or form come into consideration when deciding whether or not we should move him. I believe that on a contending team, Price will be able to win a cup for many years to come. Including a contending Habs team.
 

Hasek won the Stanley cup in 2002 at the age of 37, and 41 year old Dwayne Rolloson brought an 8th seeded Edmonton team to the cup final in 2006.

 

While the Hasek comparable is more accurate than the latter, the point is that Price will certainly be capable of winning a championship in even 5+ years.  Partially because like the fact that Hasek was Hasek, Price is Price.  Let’s forget about his window because while it sounds nice, it isn’t there. This is coming from someone who acknowledges that Price hasn’t been himself on and off for years. 

 

Price will still be a fine goalie at 37, I suspect, but I doubt he will be an especially elite goalie at that point. He'll be good, not great - or so I'd speculate.

 

If that guess is right, then why not move him, see if you can get a nice return, save on the massive cap hit, and (hopefully) have a strong team in four or five years with a Jakob Markstrom-type goalie?

 

The sentimental stuff is also realistic. If Price is traded, it will be because he wants to be - and that will mean going to a team with a chance to win. So any deal involving Price also involves moving him somewhere that gives him a better shot than Montreal is giving him.

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I don’t see Price getting moved. There’s too much sentimentality going around when offering up the suggestion that we should trade him. Things along the lines of “let’s give him a chance to play on a team that can contend” should in no way, shape, or form come into consideration when deciding whether or not we should move him. I believe that on a contending team, Price will be able to win a cup for many years to come. Including a contending Habs team.
 

Hasek won the Stanley cup in 2002 at the age of 37, and 41 year old Dwayne Rolloson brought an 8th seeded Edmonton team to the cup final in 2006.

 

While the Hasek comparable is more accurate than the latter, the point is that Price will certainly be capable of winning a championship in even 5+ years.  Partially because like the fact that Hasek was Hasek, Price is Price.  Let’s forget about his window because while it sounds nice, it isn’t there. This is coming from someone who acknowledges that Price hasn’t been himself on and off for years. 

I want to trade price, because of the return he can bring.  I don’t give a crap about giving him a chance to win - although, that would have to be part of the discussion to get him to waive his no trade clause.

 

this team is AT LEAST 3 years away from contention.  Let’s say 4 years from now all the prospects pan out and we have the perfect unicorn contending team.  Given the raises due to those prospects at that time can we afford to have $18m in cap space for a 36 year old goalie and 38 year old dmen?   Will they even be as effective by then?  Even if they are can we afford their cap hits?  Yes we have cap space now, but if our prospects become true front line players, can we sign them when the trend is to lock up younger players in their 2nd contract and the bridge contract for the most part is out the window, when we have $18 tied up on two guys in their later 30’s?

 

there is no sentimentality involved here.  to paraphrase Michael Corleone, this is not personal, it’s business.  Our best chance of getting high grade prospects and younger players for the future is moving Price and Weber (while he is having a career year).

 

i can see the oilers overpaying for a guy with term like Weber (I know holland said he didn’t want to trade a #1 for a rental like Hall).  But if he Can add a #1 dman with term, he may overpay - the trick is working the cap $ to make a deal work.  Taking back some bad contracts like Russell and one of their other dmen can make it work.

 

as far as price goes, I’d be willing to retain $2m of his contract if the return was good enough.

 

most cup winning teams aren’t winning having their goalie be anywhere near the highest paid player in the team.  It’s been a flawed strategy from the start.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

No one is getting fired. That'd be my expectation, anyway.

 

Agreed. The plan Bergevin is executing on is actually Molson's plan.

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6 hours ago, Scott462 said:

Well I think Thompson should probably be shopped, Scandella and Kovalchuk I’m not sure, they might be able to help short term.

I'm the exact opposite: trade Kovalchuk, probably Scandella too, possibly keep Thompson. 

 

Kovalchuk wants to win the Cup. I believe he signed in Montreal because it's a high profile city and he knew he'd get a ton of ice time to showcase himself. He'll want to move to a contender at the deadline, and the Habs should trade him.

 

If the Habs get an offer on Scandella at the deadline to recoup the pick they gave up to get him, I think they should probably take it. Teams always want more D depth in the playoffs, and with retained salary he might even fetch a 3rd round pick.

 

Thompson, well, I'd rather he play >10 minutes a night on the 4th line than Poehling (or Evans, or Vejdemo.) If he asks to be traded obviously do it, but if he wants to stay then he is of better service to the team than the probable 6th round pick that he'd fetch.

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Yes, Thompson is a decent fourth-line forward and doesn't cost much.

 

Scandella I would ideally like to keep but only if we were about to get a reasonable-cost contract with not too much term. He's 29 already so don't want any six-year contract. Otherwise, a fourth-round pick is better than nothing at all.

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2 hours ago, Trizzak said:

I'm the exact opposite: trade Kovalchuk, probably Scandella too, possibly keep Thompson. 

 

Kovalchuk wants to win the Cup. I believe he signed in Montreal because it's a high profile city and he knew he'd get a ton of ice time to showcase himself. He'll want to move to a contender at the deadline, and the Habs should trade him.

 

If the Habs get an offer on Scandella at the deadline to recoup the pick they gave up to get him, I think they should probably take it. Teams always want more D depth in the playoffs, and with retained salary he might even fetch a 3rd round pick.

 

Thompson, well, I'd rather he play >10 minutes a night on the 4th line than Poehling (or Evans, or Vejdemo.) If he asks to be traded obviously do it, but if he wants to stay then he is of better service to the team than the probable 6th round pick that he'd fetch.


That’s perfectly understandable, I just think Scandella and Kovy are looking good right now and like I said could help the team in the short term for next year than say the fourth and possibly third round picks that they might fetch.

 

With Thompson I personally feel his time here might be coming to a close, he is a solid fourth line centre but with his age and as he seems to be regressing I’m sure there could be better options but I may be wrong about that.

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5 hours ago, Habber31 said:

At what point do people start getting fired? This must be the only franchise to allow an 8 game losing streak and now an on going 7 game losing streak, with management still sitting pretty.

 

Detroit has a 12-gamer and an 8-gamer this season and no change.  (Of course, the obvious caveat here is that Yzerman is in his first season as GM but he has resisted any temptation to make other changes.)

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11 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Hes been horrible 50% of all games this year. 30% average and 20% good. When are we gonna stop blaming the defense and start pointing to the goalie?  Are we seriously putting  Price up on a pedestal cause of his performance in 2015 ???

 

 

I don't think Price has been quite that bad for that long, but I agree that he seems to have been trading on a reputation he built 5 years ago for some time now.

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1 hour ago, sbhatt said:

 

 

I don't think Price has been quite that bad for that long, but I agree that he seems to have been trading on a reputation he built 5 years ago for some time now.

But some GMs and Goalie coaches in a pole still rank him 2nd /3rd best and we all know that quality of defense in front of goalie also makes huge difference...unless you are Hasek

(Hasek reminds me of Barry Sanders of the Lions, who were both awesome with a weak supporting cast)

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The Athletic's recent mid-season review had him just outside the top five.

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I know a lot of people are on Price for his play but here's a stat for you stat lover's 

 

Price numbers 

35 GP W16, L15, OT4 GA 3.01 S%9.02

 

Holtby numbers

30GP W18, L7,OT4 GA 2.99 s%9.02

 

Similar numbers with Price playing more games. Yet Washington has 65pts and Montreal has 43pts. 

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5 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I know a lot of people are on Price for his play but here's a stat for you stat lover's 

 

Price numbers 

35 GP W16, L15, OT4 GA 3.01 S%9.02

 

Holtby numbers

30GP W18, L7,OT4 GA 2.99 s%9.02

 

Similar numbers with Price playing more games. Yet Washington has 65pts and Montreal has 43pts. 

Despite Washington having much better forwards and dmen, their backup goalie (goalie of the future), has been MUCH  better than holtby, let alone our useless backup.  I doubt if holtby is there after this years cup run.

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12 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Despite Washington having much better forwards and dmen, their backup goalie (goalie of the future), has been MUCH  better than holtby, let alone our useless backup.  I doubt if holtby is there after this years cup run.

 

I agree there.  They don't have enough money to keep him and Backstrom and with Samsonov looking good, they'd be wise to put their money into Backstrom and then try to find a Khudobin-type backup so that Samsonov doesn't jump from 25-30 games to 60+ right away.

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