Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
DON

Battle of the Titans 7:30 Jan7 2020

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, DON said:

But some GMs and Goalie coaches in a pole still rank him 2nd /3rd best and we all know that quality of defense in front of goalie also makes huge difference...unless you are Hasek

(Hasek reminds me of Barry Sanders of the Lions, who were both awesome with a weak supporting cast)


The Hasek/Sanders comparison is a great one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sbhatt said:


The Hasek/Sanders comparison is a great one.

I had to go and watch Sanders 50 best runs compilation, just too bad he had to play for Detroit and he said 10 years playing for that loser franchise caused him to retire at 30. He said he just wasnt having fun and lost interest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DON said:

I had to go and watch Sanders 50 best runs compilation, just too bad he had to play for Detroit and he said 10 years playing for that loser franchise caused him to retire at 30. He said he just wasnt having fun and lost interest.

 

I have never seen a player out of the backfield with his pure running ability.  Some guys come close to overall weapon status when you factor in that they caught the ball extremelly well in addition to rushing it (Faulk, Thomlinson, McCaffrey), but nobody straight-up runs even close as well as Barry did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/8/2020 at 7:10 PM, dlbalr said:

 

Detroit has a 12-gamer and an 8-gamer this season and no change.  (Of course, the obvious caveat here is that Yzerman is in his first season as GM but he has resisted any temptation to make other changes.)

How is Detroit's situation anywhere close to Montreal's situation. They have a new g.m, who has recently built a power house team and drafted Elite players. 

 

What can Detroit do? They have basically no veteran assets who are worth trading for picks. They broke down their team and kept the essentials, but I'm sure they will at least try to sell more at the deadline. I mean, the teams are in completely different situations. 

 

They came off very argumentative(not my goal) , but I just don't see Detroit's situation as being relatable. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Habber31 said:

How is Detroit's situation anywhere close to Montreal's situation. They have a new g.m, who has recently built a power house team and drafted Elite players. Yzerman has exact same # of championships as Bergy as GM, in more years at helm, both teams are floundering in standings looking towards the draft.

 

What can Detroit do? They have basically no veteran assets who are worth trading for picks. They broke down their team and kept the essentials, but I'm sure they will at least try to sell more at the deadline. I mean, the teams are in completely different situations. Wings are back where they were before they drafted Yzerman and will simply need patience and hit a home run or three in the draft.

 

They came off very argumentative(not my goal) , but I just don't see Detroit's situation as being relatable. NO, agree, Wings are much worse off.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Habber31 said:

How is Detroit's situation anywhere close to Montreal's situation. They have a new g.m, who has recently built a power house team and drafted Elite players. 

 

What can Detroit do? They have basically no veteran assets who are worth trading for picks. They broke down their team and kept the essentials, but I'm sure they will at least try to sell more at the deadline. I mean, the teams are in completely different situations. 

 

They came off very argumentative(not my goal) , but I just don't see Detroit's situation as being relatable.

 

Your original question was simply if there was another team that has had multiple losing stretches like this without a big change in management.  All I pointed out was that Detroit actually did that this season and didn't respond with any big changes.

 

It certainly is a different situation - they know they're tanking which makes their situation a lot less painful than Montreal's.  I know there is a large calling of fans and media out there that think Blashill should have been let go by now but Yzerman has resisted that temptation for the time being at least.  The really unfortunate thing for them is that there isn't a lot of hope on the horizon; I'd put Montreal's prospect pool ahead of theirs despite Detroit's disinterest in competing much the last couple of years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're 100% right about Blashill. 

 

I'm just frustrated. The fans deserve better than this. It's been going on too long. To start, Jeff Molson should not be president of hockey operations. They need a legit hockey mind in there. He literally said they have an 8 year plan, who says that in the hockey world?

 

Patience may be a virtue, but at some point action needs to be taken 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

You're 100% right about Blashill. 

 

I'm just frustrated. The fans deserve better than this. It's been going on too long. To start, Jeff Molson should not be president of hockey operations. They need a legit hockey mind in there. He literally said they have an 8 year plan, who says that in the hockey world?

 

Patience may be a virtue, but at some point action needs to be taken

 

I agree with you on Molson but I don't think he has any intention of firing himself as President.  Maybe there's a way to get a senior advisor in there that helps with more of the day-to-day hockey stuff while Molson focuses more on the business side but that probably is as good as it's going to get for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

Patience may be a virtue, but at some point action needs to be taken

Patience for the Habs has always seemed in short order for the average HabFan. I rememeber one game, they had the #1 PP in NHL, had 2 bad PPs and get booed off the ice.

 

RIP Mr.Peart

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm patient. I've been waiting for a contender since about 1997. A quarter century is long enough, don't you think?

 

Thank God I managed to be in the Forum when they won in 1993, attend the Cup parade, etc., because I would not bet three cents on the Habs winning again in the 35 years or so of life I may have left (assuming I draw an average life span).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I'm patient. I've been waiting for a contender since about 1997. A quarter century is long enough, don't you think?

 

Are you waiting for a contender? Or a cup winner?

 

Was finishing first in the conference (2008) not contending?

Were our two conference final appearances not contending?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Are you waiting for a contender? Or a cup winner?

 

Was finishing first in the conference (2008) not contending?

Were our two conference final appearances not contending?

 

 

We were not ready to contend in 2008, and the playoffs proved that. And of course that team became an abortion in 2009.

 

I enjoyed the 2010 run and really liked that group, but the team conked out quite easily in the semi-finals. That was a Cinderella run.

 

The 2014 and 2015 teams were much more serious - if not the real thing, then very close. But that's what drives me so crazy. Instead of transmuting that group into a heavy-duty contender, we pissed it away, and now here we are.

 

What we have really had, in short, are rebuilds that became abortions.

 

I don't want a freak run (unless it yields a Cup, natch! But that's like wishing for a unicorn). I want a team that is a serious threat to win over a number of seasons. San Jose, Boston, and Tampa come to mind. We have not had that calibre of organization since Serge Savard left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

We were not ready to contend in 2008, and the playoffs proved that. And of course that team became an abortion in 2009.

 

I enjoyed the 2010 run and really liked that group, but the team conked out quite easily in the semi-finals. That was a Cinderella run.

 

The 2014 and 2015 teams were much more serious - if not the real thing, then very close. But that's what drives me so crazy. Instead of transmuting that group into a heavy-duty contender, we pissed it away, and now here we are.

 

What we have really had, in short, are rebuilds that became abortions.

 

I don't want a freak run (unless it yields a Cup, natch! But that's like wishing for a unicorn). I want a team that is a serious threat to win over a number of seasons. San Jose, Boston, and Tampa come to mind. We have not had that calibre of organization since Serge Savard left.

This is where I disagree:

2010 was Gainey's core rebuild of a contender, they contended

2014-2015 was Bergevin's contender from the core he inherited that he "ran into the ground" (your point most of the time)  they contended and came short. They have since entered into a soft-rebuild.

1993 is a long time ago, there is no way of knowing if Savard would be a good manager in the 2020s salary cap era. 

 

St-Louis is an example of a perennial contender that never that never manged to win until last year; Calgary, Winnipeg and Tampa Bay are teams that in recent seasons have contended but have become "abortions".

 

The Habs organization is not as rotten and incompetent as you put it, you an above average organization that is in the middle of a third rebuild of a contender in it recent history

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Are you waiting for a contender? Or a cup winner?

 

Was finishing first in the conference (2008) not contending?

Were our two conference final appearances not contending?

 

Were the Avs really a contender the year they won their division with Roy?   Building a contender is building a team that is constructed to be a sustained contender for a 3 to 4 year window - not fluke out every 3  or 4 or 5 years, but be a bubble to crap team in between. That was the type of teams we had when we won the cup in 86 and 93.

 

in today’s NHL that’s what you need to aim for have at least 3 or 4 elite top-end players surrounded by good/great secondary players and a good supporting cast.  No one is going to build the 70’s habs, or 80’a Isle or Oiler Stanley cup teams anymore.

 

id be happy to have a team like a Wilson built in San Jose (before their core got old - though they still have a crop of good young players) or yzerman built in Tampa.  Those are good well constructed teams that made it to the finals  just didn’t get hot at the right time or didn’t face the adversity at the right time to win it all.


I know Don likes to say yzerman has the same number of cups as MB, but give me a break those are solidly built teams.  You do need some luck and have timing go your way as well. Unlike the MB model need to get hot and lucky and have price steal every game.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

We were not ready to contend in 2008, and the playoffs proved that. And of course that team became an abortion in 2009.

 

I enjoyed the 2010 run and really liked that group, but the team conked out quite easily in the semi-finals. That was a Cinderella run.

 

The 2014 and 2015 teams were much more serious - if not the real thing, then very close. But that's what drives me so crazy. Instead of transmuting that group into a heavy-duty contender, we pissed it away, and now here we are.

 

What we have really had, in short, are rebuilds that became abortions.

 

I don't want a freak run (unless it yields a Cup, natch! But that's like wishing for a unicorn). I want a team that is a serious threat to win over a number of seasons. San Jose, Boston, and Tampa come to mind. We have not had that calibre of organization since Serge Savard left.

Totally agree. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

This is where I disagree:

2010 was Gainey's core rebuild of a contender, they contended

2014-2015 was Bergevin's contender from the core he inherited that he "ran into the ground" (your point most of the time)  they contended and came short. They have since entered into a soft-rebuild.

1993 is a long time ago, there is no way of knowing if Savard would be a good manager in the 2020s salary cap era. 

 

St-Louis is an example of a perennial contender that never that never manged to win until last year; Calgary, Winnipeg and Tampa Bay are teams that in recent seasons have contended but have become "abortions".

 

The Habs organization is not as rotten and incompetent as you put it, you an above average organization that is in the middle of a third rebuild of a contender in it recent history

The gainey 2010 team got hit for one friggin run- that is not what I’d called a contending team that goes from zero to 60 one season and than back to zero the next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nor is Tampa Bay an "abortion." They are a consistently elite team that had a disastrous playoff.

 

I'll stick with my examples above: Tampa, Boston, San Jose. St. Louis is another example. Teams which, year after year, are among the league's most competitive teams. I await an explanation of why the Habs cannot possibly be expected to be a franchise at that level - as well as why I should be clicking my heels with delight over 25 years of mediocrity punctuated by a two-year glimmer (2014/15) and a freak run (2010). 🙄

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Nor is Tampa Bay an "abortion." They are a consistently elite team that had a disastrous playoff.

That is glaring double standard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I know Don likes to say yzerman has the same number of cups as MB, but give me a break those are solidly built teams. 

Ummm, Tampa just lost in 1st round, did they not? Couldnt of been that solid and you would be calling for Bergy's head after 7 or 8 years, no cups as GM and flame out in 1st round. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

That is glaring double standard

 

Hardly.

 

37 minutes ago, DON said:

Ummm, Tampa just lost in 1st round, did they not? Couldnt of been that solid and you would be calling for Bergy's head after 7 or 8 years, no cups as GM and flame out in 1st round. 

 

I might well be calling for Cooper's head at this point. I doubt I'd be calling for BriseBois's after what, one year on the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, DON said:

Ummm, Tampa just lost in 1st round, did they not? Couldnt of been that solid and you would be calling for Bergy's head after 7 or 8 years, no cups as GM and flame out in 1st round. 

If MB built a team that got as many points as TBL did and had a core of Hedman, Kucherov, Stamkos, point, McDonough, vasilousky all on brilliant team friendly deals, outstanding scouting and excellent farm and developing system, I’d want him there for life.  Now if the playoff flameout continued, you fire the coach😀

 

they lost last year because they faced zero adversity until the playoffs and were coasting along until the playoffs.  just like STL won , because while they had a solidly built team, they didn’t come together And sucked until they had the coaching change and new goaltending, but needed to gel and the adversity made them stronger once they finally got a goalie and coach that played to their strengths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...