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Habsfan89

No other thing to do but clean house and start over.

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I am sorry but that's it for me with this management group, this coaching staff and this team. Its time for full rebuild. I was trying hard to back them but I am done.

 

Clean house fire everyone and tank the rest of the year. 8 years of Bergevin and we got more lottery picks then playoffs made, and that's not by design. 2 8 game losing streaks in 2 months.  This team has no depth on it or in the system right now. Talent level drops off big time after key injuries. That's all on Bergevin.

 

We have some good prospects in our system that won't be ready for the NHL in another 3-4 years time.  We need to rebuild the team now so when they're ready we have a contending team. Its time to trade Weber, Price, Petry, Byron , Tatar and any UFA, get as much picks and prospects as we can. Our goal should be a lottery pick team for the next 3/4 years.

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When did you try hard to back them?

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9 minutes ago, Dalhabs said:

When did you try hard to back them?

The direction of player development over the last 2 years has improved, the drafting over the last 2 years has improved. The only thing I have been hard on Bergevin is the on ice product is garbage. 

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I have seen every game but two this season.

 

They are not bad and the margin has never been closer.

 

Goals: 141. Two fewer than St. Louis.

Goals against: 147. Two more than Toronto.

Goal difference: -6.

 

Shots on goal per game: 35.1. 1st overall in the NHL.

 

The Habs are not that bad! A slightly better defense, some luck, a bit better outcome with injuries and this team could be in a very different position. This team is better than last years edition. 

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You are what your record says you are. 

 

# Bottom feeder 

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This is like leaving the hospital's ER before being seen because the wait time is too long. 

 

We are either on-board a rebuild/reset or not. 

 

This season was going to be painful because:

1) we could not expect for every player who had a career season last year to repeat that

2) we had almost the same team as last year

 

 

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45 minutes ago, ch_nl said:

I have seen every game but two this season.

 

They are not bad and the margin has never been closer.

 

Goals: 141. Two fewer than St. Louis.

Goals against: 147. Two more than Toronto.

Goal difference: -6.

 

Shots on goal per game: 35.1. 1st overall in the NHL.

 

The Habs are not that bad! A slightly better defense, some luck, a bit better outcome with injuries and this team could be in a very different position. This team is better than last years edition. 

 

Yep, we're a bunch of one goal games from being in wildcard contention.  If Price has even an average season that's a huge difference right there, he lets in an iffy one most nights.  

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I hate to say this, but i just joined team tank - not to trade core pieces (Price, Weber) but simply to lose as many games as possible and trading off potential UFAs and players who have value but won’t be on the club in 2 years anyways (Kovalchuk, Tatar UNLESS we lock him up)
 

I love the direction the team is headed in the last 2 years. Building through the draft and trades to tweak or move strength to fill weakness. 
 

it’s a slow plan - but it’s the right one. This isn’t a plan to be forever mediocre ... it’s a plan that makes us a top tier contender for years in a row. 
 

we don’t need a top 5 pick. We don’t need to ice an AHL squad. Just draft wisely, manage the assets, scout waivers well - and wait. I really believe the KK, Suzuki, Brook, Caufield, Romanov wave will bring us Stanley Cups. 

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1 hour ago, revvvrob said:

I really believe the KK, Suzuki, Brook, Caufield, Romanov wave will bring us Stanley Cups. 

 

Keep dreaming, kid. I heard this sort of thing around 1996, and again around 2005, and again around 2011. I guess one of these rebuilds it might actually turn out to be true, but Bergevin inherited the core of a near-contender and managed it into the ground. Rational analysis suggests this should temper our optimism that he will be able to manage the upcoming generation into a Cup.

 

16 hours ago, ch_nl said:

The Habs are not that bad! A slightly better defense, some luck, a bit better outcome with injuries and this team could be in a very different position. This team is better than last years edition. 

 

I disagree with the last sentence. This has been my main criticism since last July - that management did not meaningfully improve on last year's team. I'll stand by that. On the other hand, I absolutely agree that this year's group is "not that bad." They've been decimated by injuries and Price has been mediocre. When reasonably healthy, this is a solid bubble team. But that's the problem with being a bubble team: hit significant adversity, and you end up where the Habs are. By definition a bubble team has minimal margin of error, no crumple zones.

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I said a week ago or so that I joined tank nation, here is what I mean by tanking:

 

1) I still want them to play hard and win games, I don't want them to develop a losing mindset because that can be a hard habit to break (see Edmonton Oilers the last 13 years, still trying to  

     recover).

2) I am a realist, the Habs are too far behind and have too many teams to climb over and are too hurt to have any real chance of making the playoffs so I expect/want MB to make strategic 

     moves come the trade deadline,  not necessarily a fire sale but look for opportunities to add draft picks and good young players where he can

3) He still needs some good veterans to mentor the young players, this is really important so keeping Gallagher/Weber is really important in my opinion.

4) I know I use the Oilers a lot as an example but they are a great example of what not to do, messed up so many draft picks by rushing them, not enough good veteran leadership etc etc. 

    Management in Edmonton has been horrible. Finally they got the right guy in Holland. 

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34 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I said a week ago or so that I joined tank nation, here is what I mean by tanking:

 

4) I know I use the Oilers a lot as an example but they are a great example of what not to do, messed up so many draft picks by rushing them, not enough good veteran leadership etc etc. 

    Management in Edmonton has been horrible. Finally they got the right guy in Holland. 

And you don’t that MB has done the same with Galchenyuk, De la rose, Julsson  mete, Kk, Poehling, fleury, and id even argue Suzuki (who could have benefited with some top line minutes in the AHL first).

 

I’d rather the habs try and ice a strong AHL team and give the young guys top minutes there and develop a winning attitude there and have a championship minor league team for now, rather than ice at best bubble teams at both levels that are regularly missing the playoffs.  That how you develop a losing culture.

 

i liked  what the leafs did during the Matthews draft when they iced pretty  much an AHL team with NHL/AHL journeymen in the NHL and kept a lot of the better prospects in the AHL.  They than screwed thing up by letting go of Lou and promoting Dubas who proceeded to offer high contracts without even buying enough UFA years.

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39 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

And you don’t that MB has done the same with Galchenyuk, De la rose, Julsson  mete, Kk, Poehling, fleury, and id even argue Suzuki (who could have benefited with some top line minutes in the AHL first).

 

I’d rather the habs try and ice a strong AHL team and give the young guys top minutes there and develop a winning attitude there and have a championship minor league team for now, rather than ice at best bubble teams at both levels that are regularly missing the playoffs.  That how you develop a losing culture.

 

i liked  what the leafs did during the Matthews draft when they iced pretty  much an AHL team with NHL/AHL journeymen in the NHL and kept a lot of the better prospects in the AHL.  They than screwed thing up by letting go of Lou and promoting Dubas who proceeded to offer high contracts without even buying enough UFA years.

 

I don't disagree, I have said before that a year in the AHL is a good thing. Absolutely the Habs have rushed some guys. I don't think KK should  have stayed up last year, Fleury did a spend a year in the AHL, Mete was too soon, dela rose did spend time in the AHL,  in a perfect world most young players spend a little time maturing and learning in the AHL. 

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I find this bunch so hopeless that I am mostly disinterested in tonight's game.   I will probbably be flicking back and forth between the Titans - Ravens game and the Habs - Sens, rather than watching hockey exclusively.  Sad state of affairs.  It's depressing to have your team pretty much playing out the string when it's Jan 11  😫

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4 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I said a week ago or so that I joined tank nation, here is what I mean by tanking:

 

    Management in Edmonton has been horrible. Finally they got the right guy in Holland. 

 

Why is he in Holland? 

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1 hour ago, sbhatt said:

I find this bunch so hopeless that I am mostly disinterested in tonight's game.   I will probbably be flicking back and forth between the Titans - Ravens game and the Habs - Sens, rather than watching hockey exclusively.  Sad state of affairs.  It's depressing to have your team pretty much playing out the string when it's Jan 11  😫

Lamar is awesome.  I have to watch habs though. 

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 10:55 AM, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

    Management in Edmonton has been horrible. Finally they got the right guy in Holland. 

Yeah.  Hopefully he will be able to lock  Alex Chiasson, Juhar Khaira, Josh Archibald and Kris Russel  with  NTC or NMC contracts  like he did in Detroit.

 

Ken Holland is OVERRATED AF.  Change my mind.

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5 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

Yeah.  Hopefully he will be able to lock  Alex Chiasson, Juhar Khaira, Josh Archibald and Kris Russel  with  NTC or NMC contracts  like he did in Detroit.

 

Ken Holland is OVERRATED AF.  Change my mind.

Agree. Him and Babcock both. Both are competent, quality gm coaches, but this air of superiority that the media has sold us is wrong imo. You had the best defenseman on earth since orr,  and datsyuk and zetterberg fall into your lap. Pretty easy to work with that.

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7 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Agree. Him and Babcock both. Both are competent, quality gm coaches, but this air of superiority that the media has sold us is wrong imo. You had the best defenseman on earth since orr,  and datsyuk and zetterberg fall into your lap. Pretty easy to work with that.

 

Holland is a competent GM, never claimed he was god. If Detroit had drafted terribly you would probably blame the GM but since they drafted well then I guess the GM got lucky. You also have to develop these players properly, I guess Holland got lucky with that too. 

 

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13 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

Yeah.  Hopefully he will be able to lock  Alex Chiasson, Juhar Khaira, Josh Archibald and Kris Russel  with  NTC or NMC contracts  like he did in Detroit.

 

Ken Holland is OVERRATED AF.  Change my mind.

His worst signings came from pressure from a dying owner to keep the playoff streak kept alive. Holland acquiesced.

 

His moves after the owner died were all generally pretty good. 

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14 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

Yeah.  Hopefully he will be able to lock  Alex Chiasson, Juhar Khaira, Josh Archibald and Kris Russel  with  NTC or NMC contracts  like he did in Detroit.

 

Ken Holland is OVERRATED AF.  Change my mind.

 

You are right, Holland is really over rated. It is so obvious . So glad he wasn't the Habs GM. 

 

"Under his leadership as GM the Red Wings won the Central Division ten times, the regular-season Conference title five times, the Presidents' Trophy four times, and the Stanley Cup three times, and won more regular-season games (789) and postseason games (118) than any other NHL team."]

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7 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Holland is a competent GM, never claimed he was god. If Detroit had drafted terribly you would probably blame the GM but since they drafted well then I guess the GM got lucky. You also have to develop these players properly, I guess Holland got lucky with that too. 

 

 

Detroit drafted exceptionally well up to 2004 (best in the league by far).  They didnt draft particularly well for the next decade after that (bottom 5 in the league)

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8 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

You are right, Holland is really over rated. It is so obvious . So glad he wasn't the Habs GM. 

 

"Under his leadership as GM the Red Wings won the Central Division ten times, the regular-season Conference title five times, the Presidents' Trophy four times, and the Stanley Cup three times, and won more regular-season games (789) and postseason games (118) than any other NHL team."]

I'm 100% for Holland with the first wave of wins, until 2002  when he built a strong team with  Chelios, Shanahan, Yzerman, etc.

 

But I'm questionning the 2nd wave,  2005 until the rebuild.

 

Well,  if there are proof that Holland even knew who were Datsyuk and Zetterberg before draft day, then I'll give him some credit other than trusting his Euro scout an hour before leaving the draft table and hit the bar/restaurant.
If HE KNEW that they'd be alone on Datsyuk and Zett and played the game, trying to draft other guys with 1 to 5 rounders, and THEN picking these two (and on 2 different draft years), then he's a Genius.


Otherwise,  I call him lucky as #### that they both developped into Hall of Famers.  Because if you take Zett and Datsyuk out of the equation, his teams were quite weak if you ask me.

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My clean house staff  candidates

 

President : Pat Brisson,. Bob Gainey, Saku Koivu

GM : Mark Hunter,  Claude Lemieux, Patrick Roy

Coach : Guy Boucher Gérard Gallant Bob Hartley 

 

I would go for Brisson, Hunter and Gallant. With french associates to please the press.

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Gallant is a non starter at coach.

 

The other positions i think you could get away with it cause the number of press conferences is a lot less but at coach, he has to speak french.

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