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Habs Fan in Edmonton

What do you think of Marc Bergevin

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No no no no I am not falling for this ( the red button is back isn't it👀)

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21 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Thought I would start this topic as many topics seem to lead in this direction anyway. 

I'd say Bergy has been Average-to-Slightly better than Average.

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Personally, I think he may be the best-dressed GM in the NHL.

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

Personally, I think he may be the best-dressed GM in the NHL.

I’d agree that he is all style over substance.

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I like what Bergevin has done the last couple years as he has realized you have to build through the draft and what he was doing before wasn't working. He has also made a couple excellent trades  (ie. getting Domi and Armia), didn't like giving up Sergachev.  The Bergevin of the last couple years has given me some hope which I didn't have before. Now he has to decide whether to be a buyer or seller at the deadline. If the Habs win a couple more it will be a tough decision. 

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Bergevin from 13 to 18 was reactionary and changed his game plan constantly.  I hated him and wanted him gone. The new Bergevin is making some solid moves and being patient.  I want to see the new plan play out, because overall, I like what I see.  I also understand people's frustrations when looking at his job as a whole. It is quite poor overall. 

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Well,  MB has a tough decision to make regarding Kovy. I think a lot depends on whether Kovy wants to be here next year and at what price. He is certainly playing with a lot of passion which is great,  Montreal is a great place to play for guys with passion.

 

I will be away for a couple weeks and may not be able to post much so I look to Habsfan89,  hab29RETIRED and Chris to keep the positive vibes going on MB.  LOL

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5 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I will be away for a couple weeks and may not be able to post much so I look to Habsfan89,  hab29RETIRED and Chris to keep the positive vibes going on MB.  LOL

 

😂 😂 😂

 

 

 

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On 2/7/2020 at 5:55 PM, BCHabnut said:

Bergevin from 13 to 18 was reactionary and changed his game plan constantly.  I hated him and wanted him gone. The new Bergevin is making some solid moves and being patient.  I want to see the new plan play out, because overall, I like what I see.  I also understand people's frustrations when looking at his job as a whole. It is quite poor overall. 

 

Good post, and fair. Where we may differ is that I am more skeptical about the new plan working out. By "working out," I mean enabling the Habs to become enduring, top-end contenders in the medium term. I just don't think we have enough top-end young talent to achieve that, and I also worry about our best players aging out. So I'm somewhat more negative about MB.

 

That said, I'm not sure I want him fired anymore either. A new GM would have to come in and basically keep the identical plan, so any upgrade would have to be in the execution of the plan, rather than in its design. And every time you fire the GM, a whole lot is lost in the transition - coaches get canned, there is upheaval throughout the organization, players get shipped out without full evaluation, etc.. He should have been fired in 2018, but at this point we might as well keep him around until the result of the "retool" has clarified itself. If the result is, as I expect, a good-not-great team, then that's not sufficient, and the GM position should be revisited at that point. Not that it will be, because at the end of the day the Habs are the way the Leafs used to be - happy as long as the fans are drinking the Kool-Aid and the money is rolling in.

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28 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Good post, and fair. Where we may differ is that I am more skeptical about the new plan working out. By "working out," I mean enabling the Habs to become enduring, top-end contenders in the medium term. I just don't think we have enough top-end young talent to achieve that, and I also worry about our best players aging out.


Most people who analyze NHL prospects rank the Habs’ prospect pool near the top of the league. The Athletic’s mid-season assessment places us in the top three.

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27 minutes ago, tomh009 said:


Most people who analyze NHL prospects rank the Habs’ prospect pool near the top of the league. The Athletic’s mid-season assessment places us in the top three.

 

I didn't say it's bad. Just that I don't see a contender in embryo. 

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18 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Most people who analyze NHL prospects rank the Habs’ prospect pool near the top of the league. The Athletic’s mid-season assessment places us in the top three.

Top of the league in depth, for sure, but not top-end talent. It's nice to have a deep roster of nearly sure-thing NHL players but it's not really as impressive if they all put up 3rd or 4th line production. 

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:


Most people who analyze NHL prospects rank the Habs’ prospect pool near the top of the league. The Athletic’s mid-season assessment places us in the top three.

We’ve got a lot of good prospects but probably only two elite (Caufield/Romanov) prospects.  At this point we don’t know if those good prospects will make it or be just role players, or the elite prospects will translate to good or decent.  What I don’t see is any guaranteed franchise type prospects.  

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Its pretty good to be top 3 in prospects.

 

You can say we only have 2 elite guys, but most teams don't have any elite guys 

 

And this team also.has a 20 year old top 5 in rookie scoring who is no longer counted as a prospect 

 

2 Dmen who are 21 and have played significant NHL time this year who are no longer considered prospects.

 

A 19 year old centre who is starting to find his game in the AHL again and if he was a prospect would be considered an elite prospect.

 

So yeah there is that.

 

Then there is primeau who is a top 10 goalie prospect.

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I guess MB is alright for an above average GM

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I guess MB is alright for an above average GM

 

What a joke 🙄 The world's only above average GM whose teams somehow keep missing the f**king playoffs.

 

As for the prospect/youth pool, we know we have a nice crop of promising players - and that's about all we know. We had that back in 2006 as well and it turned out to yield nothing other than complete crap results. Similar hopes were floated back in 2012-13: "wait until the kids come into their own," etc.. Again: nothing to show. We also know that the meter is running on Price and Weber (and Gallagher too, probably). Some amount of skepticism is warranted that all this will translate into an elite team that contends over a good number of seasons. Note that "some amount of skepticism" does not mean "complete pessimism." But I've been here one too many times to unreflexively swallow the Kool-Aid, sorry.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

What a joke 🙄 The world's only above average GM whose teams somehow keep missing the f**king playoffs.

 

As for the prospect/youth pool, we know we have a nice crop of promising players - and that's about all we know. We had that back in 2006 as well and it turned out to yield nothing other than complete crap results. Similar hopes were floated back in 2012-13: "wait until the kids come into their own," etc.. Again: nothing to show. We also know that the meter is running on Price and Weber (and Gallagher too, probably). Some amount of skepticism is warranted that all this will translate into an elite team that contends over a good number of seasons. Note that "some amount of skepticism" does not mean "complete pessimism." But I've been here one too many times to unreflexively swallow the Kool-Aid, sorry.

 

Line, sinker and all 🎣

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4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What I don’t see is any guaranteed franchise type prospects.  


I think a “guaranteed franchise prospect” is a rare species indeed. McDavid maybe. Lafreniere may end up being a franchise player but it really isn’t guaranteed either.

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2 hours ago, tomh009 said:


I think a “guaranteed franchise prospect” is a rare species indeed. McDavid maybe. Lafreniere may end up being a franchise player but it really isn’t guaranteed either.

It’s been too friggin long since we had that type of prospect at the forward or D position.  I’m still hoping KK can be that guy or Suzuki can be a top 10 player, but very few teams win cups without a dominant centre and Norris calibre Dman in today’s NHL. There is no way in hell we are making the playoffs this year Id rather try and see if we can get a first rounder (not lottery protected) from some of the bubble teams that are close or in a playoff position now by moving Tatar and Petry.  If Kovalchuk resigns before the deadline I’ll be fine with signing him for two years at around $5.5m. But we should be moving guys like Tatar, Petry, Byron and package theme with some of our depth players to try and get more first rounders. I’d also target a young guy like Gostisbehere from Philly. They need wingers, move Tatar, Byron and a d prospect for Gostisbehere and a first and retain 1/2 of Tatar’s cap hit.

 

 

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First 5 years, he was below average, honorable mention to the Petry move though, who is a top 15 RHD in this league in my book and severely underrated, but that's something different entirely. While the majority of his hockey moves were pretty good, his hockey direction and plan of action were not. Notable moments of utter failure being the summer we lost Markov and Radulov for nothing and replaced them with Streit and cap space. While I am not at all opposed to a change of personnel, or whether Radulov was being greedy with us or whatever, bottom line is if you are letting important players walk due to age and contracts, you better have a solid plan to replace them adequately, he did not, like, at all. One could argue that summer set off the events that would lead to the retool.

 

Last couple years, he's been solid, dialed in on a plan that made sense, made solid hockey moves towards that end, re-filled the bare cupboards with some real meaningful young players, and has refused to deviate from his plan no matter how great the temptation. Whether he deserved the chance to learn from his mistakes, or not, the fact is he got a 9th life, and he is certainly making the best of it. I wonder if he had applied this kind of conviction towards a plan when he first got here, instead of seemingly, learn on the job, where we could be today.

 

Overall, I see his tenure as GM in 2 chapters, and Below average + Above average = Average in my books, so that's what I think of him, he has been an average GM. The optimist in me would also like to think he is showing signs of a guy getting better and better at this job by learning through past mistakes, so the best could truly be, yet to come.

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I would not trade any of Petry Tatar kovalchuk type elite players unless there is a top 4 LD coming back. Next year is the time to see if the reset was a success. Hopefully with a more balanced defense. If next year is a failure, sell away.

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9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

There is no way in hell we are making the playoffs this year Id rather try and see if we can get a first rounder (not lottery protected) from some of the bubble teams that are close or in a playoff position now by moving Tatar and Petry.

 

You're asking for something that's entirely unrealistic though.  Non-playoff teams aren't moving unprotected first-round picks for guys that are going to be unrestricted free agents next season.  They're not moving protected first-round picks for them either.  They'd be insane to do so.  The mishaps with Duchene and Karlsson will have teams putting lottery protections on almost all draft pick trades moving forward so that they don't risk the same thing happening.  You can want to trade for an unprotected first-rounder all you want but it's not going to happen, at least with those guys.

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And even if we were somehow able to get one ... a top-ten first-rounder is definitely not a guaranteed elite player, not even in a strong draft year like this one. Countless examples abound of players who looked fantastic pre-draft but never succeed in building a top-line/top-pairing NHL career. There is always risk in selecting or signing a prospect, even a top one.

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