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What needs to happen for the Habs to have a successful trade deadline?


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1 minute ago, REV-G said:

What I heard Pierre McQuire say on TSN radio a few months back was that was the best and deepest draft in years. He said this was the year to not trade away draft picks and the more picks you had the better positioned you would be.  But from what some of you are saying, maybe that’s not the case. 

 

The top of this draft is excellent. 

 

I think its just an average draft once you get past that top 10-12 though.

 

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If the Habs are a playoff team next year, that’s a good thing.    I don’t subscribe to the mentality that we should predict the future as negative under all circumstance. If a great trade offer

Can always count on your comedic levels of rational analysis when it comes to anything Bergevin does.    Guy turns a 4th round pick into a 2nd round pick with Scandella, then turns a free ass

I never understand why we should move petry or Tatar for a pick that we HOPE in 3-4 years becomes at least as good as the petry or Tatar we now have. Those are exactly the types of players we’d need t

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

The top of this draft is excellent. 

 

I think its just an average draft once you get past that top 10-12 though.

 

 

You say top 10-12, but don't think that tanking is imperative?  That's the difference between being in or out of your own list of elite prospects, not to mention having some choice of which one you favour.  I'd much rather come in at #8 than #12 if there's 10-12 elite guys.

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56 minutes ago, Neech said:

 

You say top 10-12, but don't think that tanking is imperative?  That's the difference between being in or out of your own list of elite prospects, not to mention having some choice of which one you favour.  I'd much rather come in at #8 than #12 if there's 10-12 elite guys.


A few things

 

Players don't tank.  You are never going to get a team full of professionals to lose on purpose.

 

Right now we would pick 8th.... based on Pts% (how much do you want us to tank?)

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Commandant said:


A few things

 

Players don't tank.  You are never going to get a team full of professionals to lose on purpose.

 

Right now we would pick 8th.... based on Pts% (how much do you want us to tank?)

 

 

 

We need to make sure we're at 7 or 8 and not 10-12.  We should rest the vets and play the kids more.  Give Price every other game off, play Weber less and give him games off, ditto for Petry and Gallagher.  We should have been doing this on some level for a couple months now.  

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4 hours ago, Neech said:

 

We need to make sure we're at 7 or 8 and not 10-12.  You cant really, but likely will be close to top ten...Alzner playing should help though.

We should rest the vets and play the kids more.  They wont, maybe last couple games. Unless injured they will all want to play.

Give Price every other game off,  They wont., unless injury forces it. If healthy i bet he plays all remaining games (give him 71games played).

play Weber less and give him games off, ditto for Petry and Gallagher.  They wont unless injured.

We should have been doing this on some level for a couple months now.  For couple months, so back to Dec 26...no team would pack it in then (maybe Wings this year i guess).

 

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Some of you are missing the point! This has nothing to do with draft picks, the picks were a sweetener or the cherry on top.

 

This had everything to do with the high end prospects that would have come our way. High end prospects that would have had an impact on our team for years and the picks were extra.

 

How do we know this kind of deal was available? There is always some level of speculation but look at the picks and prospects that were handed out over the last two weeks, we haven't seen a seller's market like this in years. Add in the fact that avalanche and Habs scouted each other at least 3 times in the past few days.

 

It was a missed opportunity but lets see what happens this summer

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6 hours ago, Commandant said:


A few things

 

Players don't tank.  You are never going to get a team full of professionals to lose on purpose.

 

Right now we would pick 8th.... based on Pts% (how much do you want us to tank?)

 

 

Players don’t snd either do coaches trying to keep their jobs.  But management can make moves  to finish lower - such as trading Petry and Tatar, of keeping KK and Poehling in Laval fir the rest of the season- much like the leafs did for Mathews.

 

th me big question for you is this, do you so this lineup being a SERIOUS playoff team next year - not a bubble team, if the answer is yes, you hang on to Tatar and Petry, if no you I’ve then and absorb half their salery to drive up their value more.

 

if you don’t see this team being a serious contender for the next three years, you also don’t hold onto Price and Weber past this draft.

 

i know where I sit, I don’t see us getting more points next year than TBL, BOS, TOR and FLA for sure, may even finish lower than BUF depending on what they do.  But at best I see as 5th in our division.

We need to build a new core - Suzuki looks like he will be part of that and the hope is that at a minimum, KK, Canfield and romonov  hopefully will be in three years. Until than we should be maximizing high draft picks and high end prospects and using our cap room to do so.  Enough with having a team of depth grunts and players with some tools, but no tool box.

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The other thing is that we don't know what direction came from Molson.

 

It is possible that Molson came to MB and told him that he can't trade Tarar and Petry because he must make the playoffs next year.

 

I also wanted to clarify that I don't want to trade either one of them. I have posted that Petry is the best player on our team and is every bit as important to us as Markov was. Tatar is our leading point getter. Despite loving both of these players, I wanted us to take advantage of the opportunity to help the team long term even if that meant sucking next season.

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

The other thing is that we don't know what direction came from Molson.

 

It is possible that Molson came to MB and told him that he can't trade Tarar and Petry because he must make the playoffs next year.

 

I also wanted to clarify that I don't want to trade either one of them. I have posted that Petry is the best player on our team and is every bit as important to us as Markov was. Tatar is our leading point getter. Despite loving both of these players, I wanted us to take advantage of the opportunity to help the team long term even if that meant sucking next season.

For a non-playoff team, why is it better to trade at deadline than June/July?

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35 minutes ago, DON said:

For a non-playoff team, why is it better to trade at deadline than June/July?

You make the deal when you can get the best return.  This deadline seemed like the old days where teams were willing to give stupid returns.

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9 hours ago, Neech said:

 

We need to make sure we're at 7 or 8 and not 10-12.  We should rest the vets and play the kids more.  Give Price every other game off, play Weber less and give him games off, ditto for Petry and Gallagher.  We should have been doing this on some level for a couple months now.  

 

So piss off the vets, like Price, Petry and Gallagher by giving up on the season months ago.

 

Yeah, that is a great way to attract free agents. 

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3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Players don’t snd either do coaches trying to keep their jobs.  But management can make moves  to finish lower - such as trading Petry and Tatar, of keeping KK and Poehling in Laval fir the rest of the season- much like the leafs did for Mathews.

 

th me big question for you is this, do you so this lineup being a SERIOUS playoff team next year - not a bubble team, if the answer is yes, you hang on to Tatar and Petry, if no you I’ve then and absorb half their salery to drive up their value more.

 

if you don’t see this team being a serious contender for the next three years, you also don’t hold onto Price and Weber past this draft.

 

i know where I sit, I don’t see us getting more points next year than TBL, BOS, TOR and FLA for sure, may even finish lower than BUF depending on what they do.  But at best I see as 5th in our division.

We need to build a new core - Suzuki looks like he will be part of that and the hope is that at a minimum, KK, Canfield and romonov  hopefully will be in three years. Until than we should be maximizing high draft picks and high end prospects and using our cap room to do so.  Enough with having a team of depth grunts and players with some tools, but no tool box.

 

Matthews was in the NHL at the first opportunity after he was drafted, the Leafs never put him in the AHL. 

 

I don't know what the lineup will be next year, the summer will be changes.   So how do you want me to predict what they are doing next year? or any other team?  Why is Buffalo improving and we arent?  Rumours are that Florida is going to slash 10 million in payroll this summer, why are they assumed to be better, without knowing that 10 mill?

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3 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You make the deal when you can get the best return.  This deadline seemed like the old days where teams were willing to give stupid returns.

 

Lets look at the "stupid returns:"

 

 

 

1) NYI traded a 1st and 2nd for JG Pageau... they then signed him to a stupid deal.  Seems to me they wanted a centre, and we didn't have a centre to give here. (and no, a 1st and 2nd I would not trade Domi for). 

2) Tampa gave stupid prices for Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow.  No evidence they would make these deals if it was a division rival.  No evidence that we had players that they wanted, signed for around 1million per season, and on multiple year deals.  These deals were about getting super cheap players for both this year and next, and helping Tampa's coming cap issue. 

 

 

 

Where was the big package given out for a defenceman?  a single first rounder for Brady Skjei, a 25 year old with 5 years of control?  2 second rounders for Alec Martinez who is in the same contract situation as Petry?

Where was the big package given out for a winger?  The Devils held Palmeiri when they sold everything else.  The Rangers opted to re-sign Kreider rather than trade him.  Kase didn't go for an insane price considering the Ducks also ate the contract on Backes.  He basically was a 2nd rounder and B -level prospect and then got upgraded to a 1st to take the shitty deal. 

So what deal do you think was out there for Tatar or Petry that was absolute knock the socks off good?  That is surely better than what would be offered in the summer or next year. 

People freaked out in 2018 when Pacioretty was held til the summer, and we've learned nothing from the experience.  

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3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Players don’t snd either do coaches trying to keep their jobs.  But management can make moves  to finish lower - such as trading Petry and Tatar, of keeping KK and Poehling in Laval fir the rest of the season- much like the leafs did for Mathews.

 

th me big question for you is this, do you so this lineup being a SERIOUS playoff team next year - not a bubble team, if the answer is yes, you hang on to Tatar and Petry, if no you I’ve then and absorb half their salery to drive up their value more.

 

if you don’t see this team being a serious contender for the next three years, you also don’t hold onto Price and Weber past this draft.

 

i know where I sit, I don’t see us getting more points next year than TBL, BOS, TOR and FLA for sure, may even finish lower than BUF depending on what they do.  But at best I see as 5th in our division.

We need to build a new core - Suzuki looks like he will be part of that and the hope is that at a minimum, KK, Canfield and romonov  hopefully will be in three years. Until than we should be maximizing high draft picks and high end prospects and using our cap room to do so.  Enough with having a team of depth grunts and players with some tools, but no tool box.

If Bergevin actually makes moves to improve the team yes this can be a play off team.

 If he only targets one player and doesn't get him, like he's been doing the last 3 years and  then turns around and doesn't make any moves..... then this won't be a playoff team.

 

I had brought this up earlier, i think this should be the summer he goes all in and turns this team into a playoff team. He has a 2 year window right now to do so. In 2 years time we could once again see another player turn over.

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Matthews was in the NHL at the first opportunity after he was drafted, the Leafs never put him in the AHL. 

 

I don't know what the lineup will be next year, the summer will be changes.   So how do you want me to predict what they are doing next year? or any other team?  Why is Buffalo improving and we arent?  Rumours are that Florida is going to slash 10 million in payroll this summer, why are they assumed to be better, without knowing that 10 mill?

I’m talking about Matthews draft year when the leafs were fielding half an AHL team to improve their lottery position. They kept their better prospects down.

back in June you said we got all summer to Fill the holes, in the summer you said we don’t need to fill the holes until the season started. Did the big hole on left D get filled???  Romanov May be coming in next year, but putting all your hopes on a guy with zero NHL experience is absurd.


as far as Florida goes, unless they are dumping barkov, Ekblad, huberdeau, I don’t think they will get much worse, losing Hoffman will knock $5m, and moving a guy like stralman is over $10m.  They have young prospects that are knocking on the door.

 

their issue  is Tallon’s propensity to give stupid money to the wrong guys (like the brobovsky deal)  - thats probably something MB learned from him.

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’m talking about Matthews draft year when the leafs were fielding half an AHL team to improve their lottery position. They kept their better prospects down.

back in June you said we got all summer to Fill the holes, in the summer you said we don’t need to fill the holes until the season started. Did the big hole on left D get filled???  Romanov May be coming in next year, but putting all your hopes on a guy with zero NHL experience is absurd.


as far as Florida goes, unless they are dumping barkov, Ekblad, huberdeau, I don’t think they will get much worse, losing Hoffman will knock $5m, and moving a guy like stralman is over $10m.  They have young prospects that are knocking on the door.

 

their issue  is Tallin’a propensity to give stupid money to the wrong guys (like the brobovsky deal)  - thats probably something MB learned from him.


Last off season did not do much to improve our team. My biggest complaint in general at any point has been the fact that we have left large amounts of cap space on the table heading into seasons. It was a complaint of mine the first year we did it a few years ago, and it would be a complaint of mine now.

 

With that being said, what happened last off season has no bearing on what will happen this summer. Your plan is essentially to throw in the towel prior to next season because of your expectations of management. That’s not at all a rational way to manage a team and the only outcome of making the moves that you are suggesting, would be the firing of the person making those moves. Is that the motive here? Bergevin should make those moves f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶ because he will get fired if he does.

 

We have a complaint in one breath that the  Habs have missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, and then the suggestion becomes to make sure that they miss it for another two or three years. 
 

Tatar is our best player. Weber is our best player. Price is our best player. Pacioretty was our best player. 
 

The Habs will never have a competitive team if all we want is to keep shipping out our best players. At one point, it has nothing to do with the specific core, and more to do with a lack of surrounding talent. The mission this summer is to improve. Failing that, we can talk firings again. 

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5 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:


Last off season did not do much to improve our team. My biggest complaint in general at any point has been the fact that we have left large amounts of cap space on the table heading into seasons. It was a complaint of mine the first year we did it a few years ago, and it would be a complaint of mine now.

 

With that being said, what happened last off season has no bearing on what will happen this summer. Your plan is essentially to throw in the towel prior to next season because of your expectations of management. That’s not at all a rational way to manage a team and the only outcome of making the moves that you are suggesting, would be the firing of the person making those moves. Is that the motive here? Bergevin should make those moves f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶ because he will get fired if he does.

 

We have a complaint in one breath that the  Habs have missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, and then the suggestion becomes to make sure that they miss it for another two or three years. 
 

Tatar is our best player. Weber is our best player. Price is our best player. Pacioretty was our best player. 
 

The Habs will never have a competitive team if all we want is to keep shipping out our best players. At one point, it has nothing to do with the specific core, and more to do with a lack of surrounding talent. The mission this summer is to improve. Failing that, we can talk firings again. 

What do you see changing this year that will improve the team?  We are a constant bubble team and it isn’t working with this core. You say that Tatar is our best player - therein lies the problem.  A team that Tatar is your best forward, or Danault is your best centre will never be a contending team.  Your expecting a team that missed the playoffs now three year  straight with the same core - which is agin GM is suddenly going to be better??

i want to blow up the core, but I hope to god it’s not MB who is still around to do it.

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Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

What do you see changing this year that will improve the team?  We are a constant bubble team and it isn’t working with this core. You say that Tatar is our best player - therein lies the problem.  A team that Tatar is your best forward, or Danault is your best centre will never be a contending team.  Your expecting a team that missed the playoffs now three year  straight with the same core - which is agin GM is suddenly going to be better??

i want to blow up the core, but I hope to god it’s not MB who is still around to do it.

For me, I would like to improve the team. 
 

Tatar is our best forward and if we trade him, that brings it back to Gallagher again. When we started trading for players like Drouin, and Domi, I was subconsciously hoping that we were beginning to build a team with talented players that could start preventing us from relying only on one or two players. 
 

Tatar is not off the table but I’m not doing it for a draft pick or two and a mediocre prospect. Who knows what really was on the table. It order to actually trade him or Petry this deadline, the offer has to actually be something better than what the market is offering. The market is “crazy”? Okay, you have to offer something BETTER than the crazy market value of Petry or Tatar right now, because we are in no desperation to move them. 
 

If that doesn’t happen, a similar offer, if not a better offer, will eventually be on the table once again for these players. It’s hypothetical to say that in a way, but it’s not. Tatar and Petry will be in play again, or resigned depending on circumstance.

 

As for my expectations for the off season, I couldn’t even begin to guarantee which player we will be successfully sign, or trade for. What I can say is that the plan will be to improve the team, and not actively try to make it worse for the future. Teams that shoot for the moon with prospects as you are suggesting, tend to take 15-20 years to finally get to where they want to be. Even New York, who announced a rebuild as recently as 1-2 years ago have been signing players like Panarin, and resigning Kreider in the meantime. They’re in the hunt right now.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

The Habs will never have a competitive team if all we want is to keep shipping out our best players.

But, it hasn't worked for Ottawa at all, so it should work for Habs.

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Come on Drouin? There is no team in the league who would consider him a prime piece or core player except the habs. He disappears more than casper. 

 

Tatar is ranked 36th in scoring, again a nice piece but if your going with youth, he brings back the most 

 

Danault isn't even in the top 60 in scoring for centers, he is arguably the best 3rd line center in the league, he is not a top offensive center, nothing wrong with having a great checking line, Lekonen and Armia are good wingers for him/ 

 

Suzuki should be playing with Tatar and gallagher

 

Domi is streaky and a defensive liability which is fine if he is producing, again he is not 

 

KK needs offensive minutes, so to me the decision is KK or Domi, but im sure the habs will turn KK's (potential) into a grinder 

 

No offense plus no defense plus playing your top golaie 75 games a year isn;t going to work, 

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4 hours ago, Commandant said:

So what deal do you think was out there for Tatar or Petry that was absolute knock the socks off good?  That is surely better than what would be offered in the summer or next year. 

Bergevin was specifically asked at his press conference if he was offered any trades that would have made this team worse next year but better in the future, and his immediate response was, "No."

 

Obviously he doesn't have to tell the truth. Obviously interpretations of the question can differ (a draft pick is not guaranteed to make your team better eventually. Busts happen.) 

 

But that answer and the lack of deals done of the value we'd want for Petry or Tatar level talent should tell everyone that the market wasn't what we thought it was.

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26 minutes ago, Trizzak said:

Bergevin was specifically asked at his press conference if he was offered any trades that would have made this team worse next year but better in the future, and his immediate response was, "No."

 

Obviously he doesn't have to tell the truth. Obviously interpretations of the question can differ (a draft pick is not guaranteed to make your team better eventually. Busts happen.) 

 

But that answer and the lack of deals done of the value we'd want for Petry or Tatar level talent should tell everyone that the market wasn't what we thought it was.

If you trust MB

 

trouble is there are camps in both sides cynical about MB or hopeful MB has learned 

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Tom Fitzgerald said he didnt trade Palmeiri cause the offers for Palmeiri werent good.

 

The Rangers re-signed Kreider instead of trading him.

 

There is evidence out there that scoring wingers with significant contracts werent the most in demand thing at the deadline.

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Tom Fitzgerald said he didnt trade Palmeiri cause the offers for Palmeiri werent good.

 

The Rangers re-signed Kreider instead of trading him.

 

There is evidence out there that scoring wingers with significant contracts werent the most in demand thing at the deadline.

Just more excuses!<_<

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