Le démon brun Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 In this "new" nhl, it does'nt seem like an enforcer is a necessity. Should an important spot on the habs's line-up be givin to a goon, especialy one like Vandermeer that does'nt hit, does'nt fight, can't play and takes the spot of someone like Higgins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafs Suck Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Nope. Some tough guys obviously can do more than just fight, ie Laraque, Barnaby, etc... However Vandermeer is not one of them. He's been an AHLer for 10 years and frankly I do not think it is wise for him to be taking up a spot that would normally be given to a young player. So if it came down to Perezhogin or Vandermeer. Would who you choose? The addition of a guy like Brendan Witt might be enough so that we don't have to carry Vandermeer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I agree with Leafs Suck. Anyway Higgens is big and Dags has started laying on the body, both of these players offer much more than Vandermeer. Perez goes to Hamilton, no waivers no problem and he needs more time in NA to work the smaller ice and so on. So, would you rather have Dags, a potential 25-30 goal scorer, or Higgins, a go-to guy, or Vandermeer? [Edited on 28-9-05 by JeanLucPilon] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 does Vandermeer have a two way contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 problem is when the other team has a goone who do we have to counter them? risk Sourray hurting his hand... get dagenais to do the same ? even if he does constantly losing fights is a negative moral hit to any team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Originally posted by CoRvInAproblem is when the other team has a goone who do we have to counter them? risk Sourray hurting his hand... get dagenais to do the same ? even if he does constantly losing fights is a negative moral hit to any team Maybe we let the other team take the penalty? Thug fights only for the sake of fighting are boring and against hockey, I hope their part in the game declines this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafs Suck Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 If we have a good enough power-play, as good as it's been in the pre-season, teams would be afarid of taking liberties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Originally posted by Leafs SuckIf we have a good enough power-play, as good as it's been in the pre-season, teams would be afarid of taking liberties. As a semi-old-timer, I can say that I think (from the games I've been able to watch the last few years) that the hockey fight has become so ritualized lately with the refs standing back and the spotlight turned on and so forth, that it is just a sorry-assed spectacle now and adds little to the game. I hope this has no more place in the NHL this season, I wonder if it isn't on its way out -- I mean physical play is one thing but the goon-on-goon thing, really, do fans want to watch that? Maybe they do, I wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs71 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 We don't need a fighter we have komi and souray and rivet to get into little fights. Why take away spot for plecs and higgins they will do great with begin on the fourth line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33_ Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 New NHL, old NHL, I don't care. You need a guy who can drop the gloves. With as little depth as the Habs have on D, they can't afford to have guys like Souray being the tough guy. It's not a good thing when your 3 most likely tough guys are D-man (Rivet, Souray, and Komi). It's simply not smart to have those guys in the box or getting the crap kicked out of them. You need a guy who can go up against the Oliwas and the Shelleys of the league. He doesn't have to play every night, but you have to have an enforcer at times. You don't want your teams important players to be the ones standing up for teammates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABZRULE Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 What about Ivanans??? Is the "BIG MAN" getting a shot at the enforcer role? I didn't see his name anywhere today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 With the Habs probably dressing 13 forwards with them theres no reason Vandermeer can't sit on the bench and take the odds shift. That still leaves plenty of room for Higgins, Perezhogin, Plekanac, Hossa et all. And yes a goon is still needed in the NHL these days. Unfortunatley there is still a time and a place for these guys in the game, but hopefully that is diminishing. Dagenais cannot do the job. He is soft and never has been a physical presence And I'm not sure who said Higgins was big, but he's generously listed as 6 foot, and 192lbs, but hes not much of a physical presence either, more of a speed skill guy. So yeah, Montreal does need a Peter Vandermeer at this point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33_ Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Originally posted by HABZRULEWhat about Ivanans??? Is the "BIG MAN" getting a shot at the enforcer role? I didn't see his name anywhere today As far as I can tell, he has not been cut yet, so he must be in a good competition with Vandermeer for the role. Personally, I'm pulling for Vandermeer to become the 5th (at least) Columbus Chill player to make it to the NHL. It's been a while since the Chill even existed, but I loved them. Originally posted by kaosWith the Habs probably dressing 13 forwards with them theres no reason Vandermeer can't sit on the bench and take the odds shift. That still leaves plenty of room for Higgins, Perezhogin, Plekanac, Hossa et all. Since when can teams dress 13 forwards? Is there a new rule I missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Originally posted by Fanpuck33New NHL, old NHL, I don't care. You need a guy who can drop the gloves. With as little depth as the Habs have on D, they can't afford to have guys like Souray being the tough guy. It's not a good thing when your 3 most likely tough guys are D-man (Rivet, Souray, and Komi). It's simply not smart to have those guys in the box or getting the crap kicked out of them. You need a guy who can go up against the Oliwas and the Shelleys of the league. He doesn't have to play every night, but you have to have an enforcer at times. You don't want your teams important players to be the ones standing up for teammates. Sadly, I have to agree with you on this one. What used to frustrate me the last couple of years was to see Stéphane Quintal getting into all of those fights, buggering up his hands and then having to go back on the ice and perform as, at least, an adequate defenseman (opinions on his talent aside). It was like a waste of an important positional player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaliHab Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 While I don't feel Vandemeer is a good fit as our fighter I am also of the opinion that Souray/Rivet/Komi et al. is not enough deterence either. We still need a player that can dominate physically if the games come to that, a player which is to be feared... we have got alot of young, top talent that needs to be protected. Vandemeer simply doesn't have the package in my mind to complement the players he'd be playing with, or to justify playing him over those that would be relegated with his inclusion. I believe this is a role that still needs addressing. Ivanis was my hopeful at the start of camp but he's definitely lacking in ability as well, at least he hits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Originally posted by CoRvInAdoes Vandermeer have a two way contract? Who cares? Put him on waivers. It's no loss to us if he goes anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Originally posted by Trizzak Originally posted by CoRvInAdoes Vandermeer have a two way contract? Who cares? Put him on waivers. It's no loss to us if he goes anywhere else. Thats right, if BG see the neccessity to make room for someone,...no one way contract will stop him from doing so. Wether it be Vandermeer or Sundstrom playing down in Hamilton away from the CH roster and salary cap...he ought to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Originally posted by Fanpuck33New NHL, old NHL, I don't care. You need a guy who can drop the gloves. With as little depth as the Habs have on D, they can't afford to have guys like Souray being the tough guy. It's not a good thing when your 3 most likely tough guys are D-man (Rivet, Souray, and Komi). It's simply not smart to have those guys in the box or getting the crap kicked out of them. You need a guy who can go up against the Oliwas and the Shelleys of the league. He doesn't have to play every night, but you have to have an enforcer at times. You don't want your teams important players to be the ones standing up for teammates. I have to agree with this. Its unfortunate but you do need a goon. One thing that intrigues me about Ivanans is the idea of parking him in front of the opposition's net during power plays. I don't see how you can move this guy even under the old rules. Ottawa had quite a bit of success doing this with Zedano Chara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Thats right, if BG see the neccessity to make room for someone,...no one way contract will stop him from doing so.Wether it be Vandermeer or Sundstrom playing down in Hamilton away from the CH roster and salary cap...he ought to do it. can't afford to send SunnyD to Hamilton he's a Million bucks better get rid of him even if Scotty and Jacques think he's good .. but whomever is the 24th or 25 th habs then too bad chao chao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~moeman Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Originally posted by Habs71We don't need a fighter we have komi and souray and rivet to get into little fights. Why take away spot for plecs and higgins they will do great with begin on the fourth line. I found this information: Habs Average....: Height: 6'1 Weight: 200 lbs Age: 26.9 That's average size in a young team. The players being young is important because how well does Dave Manson fight now? Also, I don't think this list includes Ivanans who is a beast. We are definitely big enough thanks to Ivan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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