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Shea Weber's statement

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12 minutes ago, DON said:

That Ahmaud Arbery video is just another example of craziness by Good ol Boys doing what they do and videoing it themselves, so they can proudly replay it...I assume?

 

 

 

 

After watching that video you would think we were living in a different time period not 2020.  There is a lot of work to do to educate people.   They better convict those guys or we will get round 2 and it will be worse. 

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5 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

After watching that video you would think we were living in a different time period not 2020.  There is a lot of work to do to educate people.   They better convict those guys or we will get round 2 and it will be worse. 

Not much has changed since Rodney King 20 years ago, other more more scrutiny and attention because of social media.

 

not the same thing at all, but looking at how there is little to no backlash at Derek Sloan who is a leadership candidate for the conservatives question whether whether Dr. Tam works for Canada or China.  Not much has changed in this type of racist comment than the attitudes that preceded the internment of Japanese Canadians during WW2.  To me the fact that an MP can stay on and not be forced to resign is worse than some of the other incidents you hear about asians being beat up.  At least those are by scumbags who aren’t elected officials in position of power.  

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On 6/4/2020 at 9:03 PM, tomh009 said:

 

Yeah. The rioting is bad, and I disapprove of it. But it's only a tiny percentage of the protestors. And It's nowhere near the same thing as the cold-blooded murder of a helpless, unarmed, handcuffed man.

 

And I think that's as far as I'll wade into this debate on HW. (And Poehling may want to learn to keep quiet in the future, too, and stick to playing hockey.)

 

I'll bring up these two quotes, asking if its my place to decide how protests should be held.  As a white man, its not my place to decide how they should protest... its my job to support their movement, not tell black people how to have that movement, that's for them to decide)

I leave two quotes from Martin Luther King Jr. that I've thought a lot about. 

 

“I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”
 Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from the Birmingham Jail

 

 

“I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.”
- Martin Luther King Jr., Speech at Stanford University, April 1967

 

 

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Nothing will defend spreading corona!

rioting and big protest gatherings in these covid19 times is just as much murder as what that police did. How many will they kill by spreading that virus now? We will never know.

Off course black lives matters! Just as much as asian lives, albino lives and pink lives but this is not the time for big gatherings of people...

And Trump is an a-hole.

Stay safe and keep distance.

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400 years of oppression and murder.... Corona or not, its got to stop.   You reach a point where police brutality and racism has to end and changes have to be made.  Again, don't think its our place to say... yes, we hear your protest but can you wait for a more convenient time?

 

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you.

 

As for your all lives matter comments....

 

20160707_allhousesredux.png

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3 hours ago, Commandant said:

400 years of oppression and murder.... Corona or not, its got to stop.   You reach a point where police brutality and racism has to end and changes have to be made.  Again, don't think its our place to say... yes, we hear your protest but can you wait for a more convenient time?

 

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you.

 

As for your all lives matter comments....

 

20160707_allhousesredux.png

Agreed.  It also doesn’t help when peaceful protests are also being dispersed by riot squads so that Trump can have a photo op at a church.  I’m sure that didn’t help incite more violence🙄

 

having said that as, I don’t see things changing.  I know I’m not known as an optimist when it comes to how the habs are run, but I have even less faith that anything will change.  I was in university when the Rodney King incident happened and at that time their was disbelief that over 30 years after the gains made in the civil rights movement nothing had changed.  There was a lot of talk back than how the police department la were going to go under complete changes. But nothing really has changed.

 

its almost 30 years again and where still at the same place.  The positive is that with social media a lot of athletes are speaking up and surprisingly major hockey players are commenting without being prompted.  I remember Gretzky being asked about Rodney King and he basically dodged the issue and just said it was a bad situation. 


but you can’t have changes when the president calls white supremicsts good people.  You can’t have change when there are still lots of senators and congressman who have similar attitudes and beliefs as the politicians that were there in the 60’s (most are more polished).  
 

even in Canada when you have MP’a like Derek Sloan not forced to resign for racist comments, nothing will change.

 

i grew up with racism, faced it heavily even from teachers in the 70s/80’s as well as in university in the 90’s.  Was denied an apartment I was trying to rent in Lethbridge during my one year of going to school there.  I’ve never been more comfortable around police than I was that year in Lethbridge.

 

I think my kids have had and should have less racism to deal with and really want to hope they won’t face any, but am to much of a realist to think they won’t.

 

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3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Agreed.  It also doesn’t help when peaceful protests are also being dispersed by riot squads so that Trump can have a photo op at a church.  I’m sure that didn’t help incite more violence🙄

 

 

The photo op was one of the stupidest ideas I have ever seen. A big part of the problem is that Trump fired so many good people that he is left with a bunch of yes/men/women. I can't believe someone couldn't explain to him what a bonehead idea that was before he did it. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

i grew up with racism, faced it heavily even from teachers in the 70s/80’s as well as in university in the 90’s.  Was denied an apartment I was trying to rent in Lethbridge during my one year of going to school there.  I’ve never been more comfortable around police than I was that year in Lethbridge.

 

I think my kids have had and should have less racism to deal with and really want to hope they won’t face any, but am to much of a realist to think they won’t.

 

 

Racism is something that nobody should have to face, it's unfortunate that you had to deal with this. I like to think that things are better in Canada than the US and they probably are but obviously there is still a lot of work to do here. 

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Any hope for change comes, in my admittedly Caucasian opinion, from two factors:

 

1. Gen-Zers and Millennials seem to have a lot less time for this horsesh*t than earlier generations

 

2. Canada will be majority non-white by 2036 https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/the-politics-of-2036-when-canada-is-as-brown-as-it-is-white/article33814437/

and the USA by 2044: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/us/white-americans-minority-population.html

 

Arguably, what Trump represents is the death-spasm of a frightened white majority which can hear footsteps behind it.

 

Now (2) emphatically doesn't mean racism will end in 2036. Indeed, as my comment about Trump suggests, we are apt to see a spike in virulence from whites who can feel their demographic dominance slipping away - for a time. But that would be a transitional hysteria, followed by a settling in of a situation in which POC are normalized instead of racialized to their detriment. This is, admittedly, a long-term hope. But demographics are not on the side of the white supermacists.

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4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Agreed.  It also doesn’t help when peaceful protests are also being dispersed by riot squads so that Trump can have a photo op at a church.  I’m sure that didn’t help incite more violence🙄

 

having said that as, I don’t see things changing.  I know I’m not known as an optimist when it comes to how the habs are run, but I have even less faith that anything will change.  I was in university when the Rodney King incident happened and at that time their was disbelief that over 30 years after the gains made in the civil rights movement nothing had changed.  There was a lot of talk back than how the police department la were going to go under complete changes. But nothing really has changed.

 

its almost 30 years again and where still at the same place.  The positive is that with social media a lot of athletes are speaking up and surprisingly major hockey players are commenting without being prompted.  I remember Gretzky being asked about Rodney King and he basically dodged the issue and just said it was a bad situation. 


but you can’t have changes when the president calls white supremicsts good people.  You can’t have change when there are still lots of senators and congressman who have similar attitudes and beliefs as the politicians that were there in the 60’s (most are more polished).  
 

even in Canada when you have MP’a like Derek Sloan not forced to resign for racist comments, nothing will change.

 

i grew up with racism, faced it heavily even from teachers in the 70s/80’s as well as in university in the 90’s.  Was denied an apartment I was trying to rent in Lethbridge during my one year of going to school there.  I’ve never been more comfortable around police than I was that year in Lethbridge.

 

I think my kids have had and should have less racism to deal with and really want to hope they won’t face any, but am to much of a realist to think they won’t.

 

 

Change has happened.  Its been at a snail's pace and we need to make it move further and faster, but change has happened. 

With Minneapolis reforming their police this week, with the US Marines banning the Confederate flag on their bases this week, with the democrats introducing police reform bills this week, with Ahmaud Arbery's killers arrested, with George Floyd's killers arrested and the charges increased, and a few other things, we've seen a few changes just since these protests began. 

I get that its hard to see, I get that its not even close to enough, and that is why the protests continue.  But I have to have hope for change, cause that is what helps to keep fighting.  That is why I continue to support the fight, because I believe change can happen, and this is not all for not. Losing hope for me, would mean losing my motivation to help fight for change. As long as I believe that changes can be made if we just push harder, I will always use my voice to help amplify and support the protests of the oppressed. 

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We should all be looking to Quebec, where premier claims there is no systemic racism. Had to be somewhere in the world without it and who would of guessed it was there.

 

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3 minutes ago, DON said:

We should all be looking to Quebec, where premier claims there is no systemic racism. Had to be somewhere in the world without it and who would of guessed it was there.

 

 

The same Quebec that had banned religious headcoverings in the last year? good to know. 

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17 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Change has happened.  Its been at a snail's pace and we need to make it move further and faster, but change has happened. 

With Minneapolis reforming their police this week, with the US Marines banning the Confederate flag on their bases this week, with the democrats introducing police reform bills this week, with Ahmaud Arbery's killers arrested, with George Floyd's killers arrested and the charges increased, and a few other things, we've seen a few changes just since these protests began. 

I get that its hard to see, I get that its not even close to enough, and that is why the protests continue.  But I have to have hope for change, cause that is what helps to keep fighting.  That is why I continue to support the fight, because I believe change can happen, and this is not all for not. Losing hope for me, would mean losing my motivation to help fight for change. As long as I believe that changes can be made if we just push harder, I will always use my voice to help amplify and support the protests of the oppressed. 

It’s not that I’m saying I’m losing hope - anyone with kids has to keep fighting and hoping.  But when you continuously see obvious racists get elected and retain their ridings after incidents, when you still here comments at work where you are left speechless and flabbergasted that you respond too late, because you couldn’t believe what someone just said, it’s hard to differentiate the light in the tunnel from a freight train coming at you.

 

things have changed.  My kids have not experienced what I did.  Just as I never experienced what Afro-Americans did in the 60’s and they didn’t experience what their predecessors did in in the last century.

 

So I agree there has been change and it’s been very slow. The Minnesota response is better than LA after Rodney King.  But Even with the charges in Minnesota.  It’s 3rd degree murder.  If convicted that’s what 5-15 years and than time off for good behaviour.

 

braden Holtby has a great post about the Woodrow Wilson bridge being named after a racist, white supremicst president.  The scary thing is that when you factor on the general attitudes and convention of his time time period, Wilson  was probably a better man than Trump is now.  I can’t imagine how much worse the treaty of Versailles (which was a leading contributor to WWII), would have been with Trump.

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36 minutes ago, DON said:

We should all be looking to Quebec, where premier claims there is no systemic racism. Had to be somewhere in the world without it and who would of guessed it was there.

 

Quebec is probably more racist than Alberta.
 

Historically, France was less discriminatory toward skin colour than over religion, than Britain - for the British empire  skin colour was the main driver.  Quebec isn’t much different than France in that regard. I almost spit out the water I was drinking when I heard Quebec’s premier.

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50 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Any hope for change comes, in my admittedly Caucasian opinion, from two factors:

 

1. Gen-Zers and Millennials seem to have a lot less time for this horsesh*t than earlier generations

 

2. Canada will be majority non-white by 2036 https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/the-politics-of-2036-when-canada-is-as-brown-as-it-is-white/article33814437/

and the USA by 2044: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/us/white-americans-minority-population.html

 

Arguably, what Trump represents is the death-spasm of a frightened white majority which can hear footsteps behind it.

 

Now (2) emphatically doesn't mean racism will end in 2036. Indeed, as my comment about Trump suggests, we are apt to see a spike in virulence from whites who can feel their demographic dominance slipping away - for a time. But that would be a transitional hysteria, followed by a settling in of a situation in which POC are normalized instead of racialized to their detriment. This is, admittedly, a long-term hope. But demographics are not on the side of the white supermacists.

What I don’t get is the woman who support trump.  I also don’t get the Bible Belt supporting a pig like him.

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16 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It’s not that I’m saying I’m losing hope - anyone with kids has to keep fighting and hoping.  But when you continuously see obvious racists get elected and retain their ridings after incidents, when you still here comments at work where you are left speechless and flabbergasted that you respond too late, because you couldn’t believe what someone just said, it’s hard to differentiate the light in the tunnel from a freight train coming at you.

 

things have changed.  My kids have not experienced what I did.  Just as I never experienced what Afro-Americans did in the 60’s and they didn’t experience what their predecessors did in in the last century.

 

So I agree there has been change and it’s been very slow. The Minnesota response is better than LA after Rodney King.  But Even with the charges in Minnesota.  It’s 3rd degree murder.  If convicted that’s what 5-15 years and than time off for good behaviour.

 

braden Holtby has a great post about the Woodrow Wilson bridge being named after a racist, white supremicst president.  The scary thing is that when you factor on the general attitudes and convention of his time time period, Wilson  was probably a better man than Trump is now.  I can’t imagine how much worse the treaty of Versailles (which was a leading contributor to WWII), would have been with Trump.


Its second degree in Minnesota now.  Keith Ellison took over the case and has  upped the charges.  He's now facing 40 years.

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21 minutes ago, Commandant said:


Its second degree in Minnesota now.  Keith Ellison took over the case and has  upped the charges.  He's now facing 40 years.

I missed that - that’s definitely a step in the right direction and a sign that public pressure is making a difference.

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43 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What I don’t get is the woman who support trump.  I also don’t get the Bible Belt supporting a pig like him.

 

I think the religious right supporting Trump is the ultimate in hypocrisy but the alternative for them is the democrats so it is no surprise they support him.  Did Trump look really uncomfortable with a bible in his hand or was that just me?  

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They support a shit head cause he puts in judges who will support their views on abortion, gay rights, etc...

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3 hours ago, DON said:

We should all be looking to Quebec, where premier claims there is no systemic racism. Had to be somewhere in the world without it and who would of guessed it was there.

 

He's actually admitting that there is racism in Quebec, he is arguing about the use of the word "systemic". To avoid these kinds of arguments, I prefer to say that there is bias, discrimination etc rather than using the "systemic" word. The meaning is basically the same.

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I do not like Justin Trudeau. In fact I can't stand him. But I was happy to set aside that bias when he made his 20 second pause response.  He could not call out trump individually. I was proud to see our leader take some time and reflect with a strong statement about systemic racism.  Trump the narcissistic did the exact opposite.  Shame on him. A good leader makes his people feel safe and gives them confidence. 

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2 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

I do not like Justin Trudeau. In fact I can't stand him. But I was happy to set aside that bias when he made his 20 second pause response.  He could not call out trump individually. I was proud to see our leader take some time and reflect with a strong statement about systemic racism.  Trump the narcissistic did the exact opposite.  Shame on him. A good leader makes his people feel safe and gives them confidence. 

 

I agree with your thoughts on this. Not a big fan of Trudeau either but managing the relationship  with Trump is difficult to say the least and that question put him in a difficult position. I thought he handled it well. 

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And I really believe him when he talks about racism and equality. He truly believes it. You can tell. I can't stand how polarizing politics has become. You don't agree with a statement  therefore you are an alt right crazy person. I have fiscal conservative values, therefore everything that liberal guy says is trash. Some pragmatic leadership globally would be pretty great right now.

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1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

And I really believe him when he talks about racism and equality. He truly believes it. You can tell. I can't stand how polarizing politics has become. You don't agree with a statement  therefore you are an alt right crazy person. I have fiscal conservative values, therefore everything that liberal guy says is trash. Some pragmatic leadership globally would be pretty great right now.

 

Totally agree, it is so polarizing right now.  I hate putting labels on people. I consider myself a fiscal conservative but I definitely have some liberal social values. What does that make me? I try and keep an open mind on all issues. Quite often I disagree with Trudeau but sometimes I agree with him. I get annoyed with people who keep blinders on and twist things to fit a particular narrative they have. 

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17 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Totally agree, it is so polarizing right now.  I hate putting labels on people. I consider myself a fiscal conservative but I definitely have some liberal social values. What does that make me? 

Screwed.  You either get a wingnut or someone left of Karl Marx.

 

thats why politics is so messed up these days.  In Alberta everyone I work for is pro trump, because he is pro-pipelines.  Doesn’t matter what kind of leader he is or whatever else happens in the world as a result of his actions. 

 

with the exception one election where the NDP got elected, In AB we had  almost almost 60 years of a conservative government.  I don’t like Rachel Notley’s economic policy, but have more respect for her as a person than I ever can/will for Jason Kenny.  Liberals will never win in Alberta and NDP blew their one chance. Their last win was such a surprise that you had new grads and yoga instructors who won - when they just ran for the heck of it and in town halls were clearly out of their depth. 
 

At the federal level I would prefer a fiscal conservative, but I’d take Trudeau over anyone the conservatives have and NDP are a non-starter.  For some reason Globally, conservative are almost all right wing wingnut/racists now.

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