Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Phozzwald

Canadiens should offer sheet Sergachev

Recommended Posts

23 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think that Poile should have tried to move Weber for a centre rather than Jones.  You could see that this guy was going to be a stud.  He may end up being  the best Dman that Poile has drafted - and it’s a pretty impressive list just from Nashville alone includes suter, Weber, Josi and Ellis.


Suter

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DON said:


Suter

 

 

Scott Stevens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think that Poile should have tried to move Weber for a centre rather than Jones.  You could see that this guy was going to be a stud.  He may end up being  the best Dman that Poile has drafted - and it’s a pretty impressive list just from Nashville alone includes suter, Weber, Josi and Ellis.

 

Columbus made the trade because they didn't want to pay Johansen.  They probably didn't want Weber's contract at the time and took Jones who was making much less. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Columbus made the trade because they didn't want to pay Johansen.  They probably didn't want Weber's contract at the time and took Jones who was making much less. 

 

But logic takes all the fun out of things.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If MB is not going to blow it up and is hanging on to Weber and Price in particular, they need to make the team better fast.  Even than they really have to hope that Suzuki and KK become dominant players sooner rather than later and Romanov is as good as advertised.

 

MB has wasted each season since the Weber deal ... no matter what he feels, there is a window when your two "best players are 30 or over ... that is no time for a re-set ... by the time the youngsters are ready to be significant contributors Price and Weber will be even further down the far side of the hill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

MB has wasted each season since the Weber deal ... no matter what he feels, there is a window when your two "best players are 30 or over ... that is no time for a re-set ... by the time the youngsters are ready to be significant contributors Price and Weber will be even further down the far side of the hill

 

Price probably has about 4-6 years left as a Lundqvist-type goaltending machine.

 

Weber has struck me as already having declined somewhat in his own end owing to relatively diminished agility, but he remains a top-pairing guy. He is harder to project, though...I can see him going fairly strong for, say, another 2-3 years before receding into a more and more one-dimensional player whose minutes and situations need to be 'handled' carefully . 

 

Don't forget that Galy is 28 and that it's hard to imagine a guy whose body has taken that much punishment continuing to be a top-liner past his early 30s.

 

Even if we take the optimistic view that the Habs' young talent is the nucleus of a future contender (a view about which I am skeptical), you are, therefore, broadly correct. There may, if we're lucky, be an overlap of a year or two between Price/Weber twilight as impact players and the rise of the young guns as impact players, but that is not nearly a wide enough window to make us a serious, elite organization.Your best bet for winning a Cup is by icing a heavy-duty team over several seasons, not by crossing your fingers on a miracle year where 'everything works out perfectly.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Price probably has about 4-6 years left as a Lundqvist-type goaltending machine ... There may, if we're lucky, be an overlap of a year or two between Price/Weber twilight as impact players and the rise of the young guns as impact players, but that is not nearly a wide enough window to make us a serious, elite organization.

 

Since signing his mega-deal Lundqvist has been 10th, 14th, 28th, 19th, 35th and 31st in Sv% (minimum 30 games) ... it has been at least 5 years since Henriq was any kind of "machine" ... IMO, given age and injuries of recent years, for Price to now deliver "machine-like" goaltending he has to have backup who carries at least 22 (better 27-30) games of the workload at an above average NHL level ... THAT will be pricey (pun intended) ... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Since signing his mega-deal Lundqvist has been 10th, 14th, 28th, 19th, 35th and 31st in Sv% (minimum 30 games) ... it has been at least 5 years since Henriq was any kind of "machine" ... IMO, given age and injuries of recent years, for Price to now deliver "machine-like" goaltending he has to have backup who carries at least 22 (better 27-30) games of the workload at an above average NHL level ... THAT will be pricey (pun intended) ... 

 

Lundqvist took a major dip at age 36. If Price follows the exact template, he has around four years to go. On the other hand, Bobby Lou was excellent until about age 39. (Of course, he did not have Price's history of catastrophic injury). 4-6 years seems a safe projection for Price. But I think everyone agrees that it's stupid for the Habs to expect Price to play 65 games per season anymore; we need a legitimate backup who can win hockey games of his own accord. Indeed, for a bubble team to be willing to throw away a high % of games Price does not start could be argued to be the basic difference between making and missing the playoffs. Characteristically, MB has let the gaping hole fester for years and years rather than fix it. Because hey, that's how he rolls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Lundqvist took a major dip at age 36. If Price follows the exact template, he has around four years to go. On the other hand, Bobby Lou was excellent until about age 39. (Of course, he did not have Price's history of catastrophic injury). 4-6 years seems a safe projection for Price. But I think everyone agrees that it's stupid for the Habs to expect Price to play 65 games per season anymore; we need a legitimate backup who can win hockey games of his own accord. Indeed, for a bubble team to be willing to throw away a high % of games Price does not start could be argued to be the basic difference between making and missing the playoffs. Characteristically, MB has let the gaping hole fester for years and years rather than fix it. Because hey, that's how he rolls.

 

Injuries are a major factor in my thinking ... as well as his actual play in recent years

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first season Hasek dipped to under .915 was 2003-2004, when he turned 39. But that really isn't a realistic expectation for Price. But Hasek was still doing .903 after he turned 43!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/13/2020 at 8:28 PM, Commandant said:

 

Scott Stevens

stevens wasn't drafted by Poile. He was hired after the draft.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Price probably has about 4-6 years left as a Lundqvist-type goaltending machine.

 

Weber has struck me as already having declined somewhat in his own end owing to relatively diminished agility, but he remains a top-pairing guy. He is harder to project, though...I can see him going fairly strong for, say, another 2-3 years before receding into a more and more one-dimensional player whose minutes and situations need to be 'handled' carefully . 

 

Don't forget that Galy is 28 and that it's hard to imagine a guy whose body has taken that much punishment continuing to be a top-liner past his early 30s.

 

Even if we take the optimistic view that the Habs' young talent is the nucleus of a future contender (a view about which I am skeptical), you are, therefore, broadly correct. There may, if we're lucky, be an overlap of a year or two between Price/Weber twilight as impact players and the rise of the young guns as impact players, but that is not nearly a wide enough window to make us a serious, elite organization.Your best bet for winning a Cup is by icing a heavy-duty team over several seasons, not by crossing your fingers on a miracle year where 'everything works out perfectly.'

the way he has played the last couple of years, i'd say we've got 3 more years.  Although, don't know how much of his lack of consistency has to do with frustration with the lineup in front of him, workload and injures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/13/2020 at 6:44 PM, Commandant said:

The Drouin trade is irrelevant to this discussion IMO. 

 

It's in the past, and you can't change the past. 

 

You have to make the decision if you want to make the team better tomorrow. 

 

If it was a player with the exact same skills as Sergachev, and a team with the exact same cap crunch as Tampa, but who never made that trade, would you do it to improve the team right now?  That's the question we can debate.  And its perfectly fine to say 8.5 is too much money, or to say you would do it... but the Drouin trade shouldn't be a reason why we do or dont make this move.

 

On 6/13/2020 at 7:12 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

Signing Sergechev is not trying to correct a wrong.  It’s to fill a major hole and pickup a dman who looks like he will be a dominating top line Dman and he hasn’t even hit his prime.

 

this isn’t like the Chelios for Savard trade where the the French media at the time was saying a great wrong had been corrected from when the Habs drafted Wickeneiser over the local French kid.  At the time the habs traded one of the best dman in the league who was still in his prime as part of the regular animals Corey dictated crap moves for a declining French star.

 

you make the move because that Sergechev is the best dman available as an RFA and Tampa is limited in how much they can offer.  If Seth Jones was an RFA on a team in the same cap situation as Sergechev, I’d be willing to make the same offer for him as well.  


I think my post was misinterpreted because whether or not that trade was wrong or bad is arguable. I didn’t like that trade for reasons that are completely irrelevant to the topic. The point is if Drouin was signed to 5.5 million, Sergachev is unlikely to be signed for 8.5 million by the same general manager considering they were traded for one another. I personally would not fault him for thinking that way, while others would be quick to say something like “obviously MB wouldn’t” in some type of snarky way. 
 

It’s also indicative that 8.5 million is an overpayment. It does make our team better, so if that’s the only move in the world versus having unused cap space, by all means go for it. It simply wouldn’t be the wisest use of money because Sergachev is not a player who is worth that much. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

 


I think my post was misinterpreted because whether or not that trade was wrong or bad is arguable. I didn’t like that trade for reasons that are completely irrelevant to the topic. The point is if Drouin was signed to 5.5 million, Sergachev is unlikely to be signed for 8.5 million by the same general manager considering they were traded for one another. I personally would not fault him for thinking that way, while others would be quick to say something like “obviously MB wouldn’t” in some type of snarky way. 
 

It’s also indicative that 8.5 million is an overpayment. It does make our team better, so if that’s the only move in the world versus having unused cap space, by all means go for it. It simply wouldn’t be the wisest use of money because Sergachev is not a player who is worth that much. 

 

The money would be based as much on a belief in what he *will* do as what he's done. The kid is 21 years old and playing over 20 minutes per night on one of the best teams in hockey. Some can say, 'well, his stats are inflated because he plays on Tampa.' But you can just as easily stress how impressive it is that he has imposed himself to such a degree at such a young age upon such a strong roster. When was the last time a crappy franchise like the Habs, so desperate for star youth they throw guys like Mete and KK into key roles way before they're ready, had a 21-year-old playing those kinds of minutes so successfully? You probably have to go back to Subban.

 

So it's a deal made with the view that he will be a top-pairing core piece for the next 10 years at least; an investment.

 

How much Drouin gets paid should be utterly irrelevant to that calculation.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The money would be based as much on a belief in what he *will* do as what he's done. The kid is 21 years old and playing over 20 minutes per night on one of the best teams in hockey. Some can say, 'well, his stats are inflated because he plays on Tampa.' But you can just as easily stress how impressive it is that he has imposed himself to such a degree at such a young age upon such a strong roster. When was the last time a crappy franchise like the Habs, so desperate for star youth they throw guys like Mete and KK into key roles way before they're ready, had a 21-year-old playing those kinds of minutes so successfully? You probably have to go back to Subban.

 

So it's a deal made with the view that he will be a top-pairing core piece for the next 10 years at least; an investment.

 

How much Drouin gets paid should be utterly irrelevant to that calculation.

 


All of what you said is true.
 

I also add that You also have to overpay at least a little, so Tampa doesn't match

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The money would be based as much on a belief in what he *will* do as what he's done. The kid is 21 years old and playing over 20 minutes per night on one of the best teams in hockey. Some can say, 'well, his stats are inflated because he plays on Tampa.' But you can just as easily stress how impressive it is that he has imposed himself to such a degree at such a young age upon such a strong roster. When was the last time a crappy franchise like the Habs, so desperate for star youth they throw guys like Mete and KK into key roles way before they're ready, had a 21-year-old playing those kinds of minutes so successfully? You probably have to go back to Subban.

 

So it's a deal made with the view that he will be a top-pairing core piece for the next 10 years at least; an investment.

 

How much Drouin gets paid should be utterly irrelevant to that calculation.

 

Komisarek comes to mind as someone who got overpaid after playing on the top pair with Markov, and a few others

 

I would not overpay for Sergschev 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Komisarek comes to mind as someone who got overpaid after playing on the top pair with Markov, and a few others

 

I would not overpay for Sergschev 

Komisarek is about as similar to Sergechev as Douglas Murray is to Weber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Komisarek is about as similar to Sergechev as Douglas Murray is to Weber.

 

Emelin, Subban, Souray, Streit benefited from playing with Markov. Same as Sergachev 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

Emelin, Subban, Souray, Streit benefited from playing with Markov. Same as Sergachev 

 

 

Emelin was not that good - I see him as Komisarik 2.0.  Souray has a shot and nothing else and was basically a pylon. Yes all of these guys benefitted from playing with Markov.  Subban was a norris finalist post Markov. Streit was a team captain post Markov.  


Lapointe played with Robinson and Savard, are we saying Lapointe was just carried by Robinson and Savard (btw, I see lapointe and Savard as great old time comparables to Sergechev- can skate, shoot carry the puck -  Something that komisarik and Souray and emelin probably couldn’t do in the AHL, let alone the NHL).


pronger and neidermeyer led the ducks to a cup win.  Was pronger carrying neidermeyer, it was neidermeyer carrying pronger??  
 

when chelios came up he was playing with Robinson, was Robinson just carrying Chelios.  We should have Chelios 7 years before we did, because he really wasn’t that good, he only looked good playing with Robinson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It comes down to pro scouting on Sergachev. If your pro scouts believe that he is a legitimate top-pairing LD at age 21, then you make the move. Even if the salary is something of an overpay right now, I'd rather overpay for a sky's-the-limit 21-year-old than a declining UFA 10 years older.

 

I suspect that if Sergy were putting up 35+ points and eating 20 minutes per night playing alongside Weber on the Habs as a 21-year-old 9th-overall pick, some of the people currently denigrating him as an artificial product of strong teammates would be hyping him up as a guaranteed future Norris winner and probable perennial all-star.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was not denigrating him, if that is the reference.

I am just stating that there is. I point in overpaying for Sergachev with Romanov, Harris and Norlinder in the queue in addition to Brooks who is being touted as a top-4 RD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

It comes down to pro scouting on Sergachev. If your pro scouts believe that he is a legitimate top-pairing LD at age 21, then you make the move. Even if the salary is something of an overpay right now, I'd rather overpay for a sky's-the-limit 21-year-old than a declining UFA 10 years older.

 

I suspect that if Sergy were putting up 35+ points and eating 20 minutes per night playing alongside Weber on the Habs as a 21-year-old 9th-overall pick, some of the people currently denigrating him as an artificial product of strong teammates would be hyping him up as a guaranteed future Norris winner and probable perennial all-star.

100% agree.  I’ve been saying for years, I’d rather overpay first a RFA That is just hitting his prime and has his best years ahead of him, than a UFA who you’ll probably regret the last 4 or even 5 years of the contract.  Sure UFA only take cap space, but I’d rather give up the picks and dollars on someone who is more likely to be worth the contract for the entire term, than an UFA, who will be a boat anchor on the cap for half of the contract term.  There’s been very few UFA’s that have stayed elite like that piece of human garbage Chara and a lot more Gomez/Drury/shattenkirk/(inset tither Rangers UFA’s) Type if UFA signings.  Hell, even the leafs writers have commented that Tavares looks like he is losing a step (has the IQ/skill), to make up for it, but is don’t see him being worth $11m for the full 7 years.
 

you just have to make sure you make the offer sheet to the right player and make sure it’s an offer sheet that actually has a chance of success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I was not denigrating him, if that is the reference.

I am just stating that there is. I point in overpaying for Sergachev with Romanov, Harris and Norlinder in the queue in addition to Brooks who is being touted as a top-4 RD

Sergechev by all indications is a tip pairing dman. Romanov MAY become one, the others are not.  There’s a huge difference between a legit top pairing dman and a 2nd pair being asked to play on the top pairing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And a UFA will only take cap space ... but it is a struggle to get them to sign up for a move to Montreal. When you send out an offer sheet, the RFA has exactly two choices, take that offer sheet or wait for his team's offer (or another offer sheet, which is not very likely).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

And a UFA will only take cap space ... but it is a struggle to get them to sign up for a move to Montreal. When you send out an offer sheet, the RFA has exactly two choices, take that offer sheet or wait for his team's offer (or another offer sheet, which is not very likely).

He accepted, signed the offer sheet AND waited for his teams offer to match.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...