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Phozzwald

Habs Offseason Target: Vince Dunn

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Fortunately, Dunn can be acquired with either one of those options. Dunn is set to become a restricted free agent at the end of the season. Given the Blues cap troubles, having roughly $2 million in cap space with Alex Pietrangelo and Vince Dunn to sign, they will need to move out a significant amount of salary to get both under contract. The Canadiens could step in here and offer sheet Vince Dunn to a contract worth between $3 million to $4 million per season on a four or five-year deal. At this point, it would be something the Blues would not be able to match. That would put them above the salary cap ceiling and Pietrangelo is sure to cost at least double that amount.

 

Read more here: https://lastwordonhockey.com/2020/07/18/montreal-canadiens-offseason-target-vince-dunn/

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Would be a hell of a pick up, however, can't see STL not making moves to ensure they can keep him, he is young, his cap hit would be overall affordable, they just have to toss out some veteran cap hits to make room. That is an avenue I see them exploring, well before giving away an asset like Dunn, on the RFA market, uncontested. Would be amazing, don't get me wrong, but also why it is unlikely to happen.

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23 minutes ago, Link67 said:

Would be a hell of a pick up, however, can't see STL not making moves to ensure they can keep him, he is young, his cap hit would be overall affordable, they just have to toss out some veteran cap hits to make room. That is an avenue I see them exploring, well before giving away an asset like Dunn, on the RFA market, uncontested. Would be amazing, don't get me wrong, but also why it is unlikely to happen.

 

I think if you did a trade where you take Jake Allen and Vince Dunn, you could get him at a decent price. 

 

Would give the Habs a one-year backup goalie (although an overpriced one), and would let them get Dunn, who I think would immediately be our number 1 LHD and a perfect partner for Weber.

 

The trade would be cheap and give the Blues the room they need to re-sign Pietrangelo too. 

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I don't see why Dunn takes $3-4M on a four or five-year deal.  I know the market is a little deflated but if you want an offer sheet to discourage St. Louis from matching, that's a one-year or two-year price tag that sets him up for salary arbitration, not one that potentially buys out a UFA year. 

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On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 5:43 PM, Commandant said:

 

I think if you did a trade where you take Jake Allen and Vince Dunn, you could get him at a decent price. 

 

Would give the Habs a one-year backup goalie (although an overpriced one), and would let them get Dunn, who I think would immediately be our number 1 LHD and a perfect partner for Weber.

 

The trade would be cheap and give the Blues the room they need to re-sign Pietrangelo too. 

What would be sent the other way ?

 

I guess  the starter pack would include Victor Mete.

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56 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

What would be sent the other way ?

 

I guess  the starter pack would include Victor Mete.

 

Because you are taking on the salary, it would be a discount on what you would send back. 

It would either be Mete and one of the high second round picks (our pick or Chicago's pick)....  or a prospect and a 2nd.

Depends if St. Louis wants Mete's salary. 

 

Another player Id give up, without the pick attached, would be Poehling.

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39 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Because you are taking on the salary, it would be a discount on what you would send back. 

It would either be Mete and one of the high second round picks (our pick or Chicago's pick)....  or a prospect and a 2nd.

Depends if St. Louis wants Mete's salary. 

 

Another player Id give up, without the pick attached, would be Poehling.

 

Mete is also an RFA but wouldn't (IMO) get anywhere near the money Dunn would ... Vince has 5 times the number of goals and 50% more assists per 82 games than Mete in similar career ice time (15:04 TOI, 1:53 PP and 0:05 PK versus VM's 15:28/0:33/0:35) ... think Victor would be affordable for the Blues but question is whether they would want him .

 

I agree about Poehling ... he would IMO be attractive to STL ... he has a year left on his ELC and still has most of the "shine" of having (A) been a first round pick and (B) a strong showing at the 2019 WJHC ... but I would be willing to move him ... but would taking on Allen reduce Dunn's value to just Poehling?

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49 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Mete is also an RFA but wouldn't (IMO) get anywhere near the money Dunn would ... Vince has 5 times the number of goals and 50% more assists per 82 games than Mete in similar career ice time (15:04 TOI, 1:53 PP and 0:05 PK versus VM's 15:28/0:33/0:35) ... think Victor would be affordable for the Blues but question is whether they would want him .

 

I agree about Poehling ... he would IMO be attractive to STL ... he has a year left on his ELC and still has most of the "shine" of having (A) been a first round pick and (B) a strong showing at the 2019 WJHC ... but I would be willing to move him ... but would taking on Allen reduce Dunn's value to just Poehling?

 

If I was STL, I would take Poehling over Mete just because of the second being exempt form the Seattle expansion. 

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20 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

If I was STL, I would take Poehling over Mete just because of the second being exempt form the Seattle expansion. 

 

It is also possible that the Blues would want Mete precisely because of the expansion draft ... they need to expose a defenceman under contract in 2021-22 who played in at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons ... Mete would only need to be extended and play 19 games in 20-21 ... but considering this possibility requires more (a) research than I care to do and (b) knowledge of the Blues than I have ... of course that might be the very reason the Habs might want to keep Mete ... Kulak is the likley other option to expose ... unless they have the rebuilding cojones to expose Weber (kidding, won't happen) 

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On 7/20/2020 at 12:01 PM, Commandant said:

 

Because you are taking on the salary, it would be a discount on what you would send back. 

It would either be Mete and one of the high second round picks (our pick or Chicago's pick)....  or a prospect and a 2nd.

Depends if St. Louis wants Mete's salary. 

 

Another player Id give up, without the pick attached, would be Poehling.

 

I'm ok with giving up Poehling as well as I don't see a place for him in the Habs lineup. He'll develop into a third line centre at best in my eyes. With Suzuki, Kotkaniemi and Danault likely securing those top three spots moving forward, Poehling is on the outside looking in. He could move to the wing, but even then the Habs have a ton of depth there as well. Moving a guy like Poehling to make that deal wouldn't be a bad idea. 

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I think that Danault, like Plekanec, will have a steep decline, and for that reason alone I would keep Poehling around on the fourth line with Evans. That will give the habs flexibility and depth in the mid term. 

Danault will move down to centre the 3rd line in the next couple of years (or we would be in a rebuild mode, having failed MB's reset) and by that time a line of Evans-Danault-Poehling will be really good. 

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I think that Danault, like Plekanec, will have a steep decline, and for that reason alone I would keep Poehling around on the fourth line with Evans. That will give the habs flexibility and depth in the mid term. 

Danault will move down to centre the 3rd line in the next couple of years (or we would be in a rebuild mode, having failed MB's reset) and by that time a line of Evans-Danault-Poehling will be really good. 

 

Danault is 27

 

Plekanec didn't really decline til he was 33 or 34.  Its a ways away still

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5 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Danault is 27

 

Plekanec didn't really decline til he was 33 or 34.  Its a ways away still

I know, but he is also going to be separated from Gallagher and Tatar when he is pushed down by Suzuki and Kotkaniemi (and that better happens sooner than later for the team's  reset sake) .  That will impact his production. 

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8 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I know, but he is also going to be separated from Gallagher and Tatar when he is pushed down by Suzuki and Kotkaniemi (and that better happens sooner than later for the team's  reset sake) .  That will impact his production. 

 

Is it better for the team's sake?

 

On a terrible team Tatar - Danault - Gallagher has been the best possession line in the entire NHL at 5v5.  All while playing against the other team's best line every night. 

 

5v5 this line is elite. 

And Danault doesn't hurt their scoring as they are a strong scoring line 5v5 too.   And he doesn't play the PP much.

 

We don't appreciate how good that line has actually been.  He really deserves the Selke and doesn't get recognition cause the rest of the team didn't do enough to be a playoff team (top 16).

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21 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I know, but he is also going to be separated from Gallagher and Tatar when he is pushed down by Suzuki and Kotkaniemi (and that better happens sooner than later for the team's  reset sake) .  That will impact his production. 

 

Danault's value is not points production ... Tartar and Gallagher would likely produce as well, perhaps even slightly better, with Domi, KK or Suzuki as their centre ... but they also fit with Phil's strength ... DEFENCE ... and can still produce some offence ... Danault slipping to 30-35 points if moved down to the 3rd line would not greatly reduce his value (IMO) ... but this is why his next contract (nest summer) is very tricky ... he shouldn't be paid as a 1st line centre but won't want 3C money

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Its hard to say Tatar and Gallagher would do better with another centre, when that line puts up excellent production in the NHL at 5v5. 

 

They just don't get the PP production to augment that to be amongst the top scorers in the NHL. 

 

Tatar is 21st in the NHL in 5v5 scoring,

Danault 31st,

Gallagher 54th (despite playing ten less games than most people in front of him). 
 

In P/60 at 5v5 (minimum 30 GP)

 

Gallager is 18th

Tatar is 20th

Danault is 30th

 

Thats damn good production for a top line at 5v5, especially when you add in their defensive stats. 

The ideal thing for this team would be to keep that line together, and continue to play it against the other team's top lines. 

 

And hope one of Suzuki/KK takes the step into being a 70 point centre.... with Drouin on the wing, and someone on the Right who can also score, and have that line play an easier matchup and put up points. 

 

There is no reason why the Danault line cannot continue to be a 20 minute a game line and part of a winning team.  They real are the closest thing we have seen to the Carboneau line of the late 80s, early 90s, that played those minutes on a Cup Finalist in 89 and Cup Winner in 93.  You just need a Muller-Damphousse, or a Corson-Richer, to be that line that can put up points against easier matchups.   Guys who can also produce on the PP since Danault isn't going to do that. 

The Danault line can absolutely be part of a 1a/1b lineup and since they play the other team's top line, they are going to get the minutes. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Is it better for the team's sake?

 

On a terrible team Tatar - Danault - Gallagher has been the best possession line in the entire NHL at 5v5.  All while playing against the other team's best line every night. 

 

5v5 this line is elite. 

And Danault doesn't hurt their scoring as they are a strong scoring line 5v5 too.   And he doesn't play the PP much.

 

We don't appreciate how good that line has actually been.  He really deserves the Selke and doesn't get recognition cause the rest of the team didn't do enough to be a playoff team (top 16).

 

I am thinking two years from now, when Suzuki and Kotkaniemi would be entering their productive years and Tatar and Gallagher would be 

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13 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Its hard to say Tatar and Gallagher would do better with another centre, when that line puts up excellent production in the NHL at 5v5. 

 

They just don't get the PP production to augment that to be amongst the top scorers in the NHL. 

 

Tatar is 21st in the NHL in 5v5 scoring,

Danault 31st,

Gallagher 54th (despite playing ten less games than most people in front of him). 
 

In P/60 at 5v5 (minimum 30 GP)

 

Gallager is 18th

Tatar is 20th

Danault is 30th

 

Thats damn good production for a top line at 5v5, especially when you add in their defensive stats. 

The ideal thing for this team would be to keep that line together, and continue to play it against the other team's top lines. 

 

And hope one of Suzuki/KK takes the step into being a 70 point centre.... with Drouin on the wing, and someone on the Right who can also score, and have that line play an easier matchup and put up points. 

 

There is no reason why the Danault line cannot continue to be a 20 minute a game line and part of a winning team.  They real are the closest thing we have seen to the Carboneau line of the late 80s, early 90s, that played those minutes on a Cup Finalist in 89 and Cup Winner in 93.  You just need a Muller-Damphousse, or a Corson-Richer, to be that line that can put up points against easier matchups.   Guys who can also produce on the PP since Danault isn't going to do that. 

The Danault line can absolutely be part of a 1a/1b lineup and since they play the other team's top line, they are going to get the minutes. 

 

 

I'd like us to be able to play Caufield with Suzuki and Drouin  sooner than later.   Just like Buffalo did with Olofsson.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Its hard to say Tatar and Gallagher would do better with another centre, when that line puts up excellent production in the NHL at 5v5. 

 

They just don't get the PP production to augment that to be amongst the top scorers in the NHL. 

 

Tatar is 21st in the NHL in 5v5 scoring,

Danault 31st,

Gallagher 54th (despite playing ten less games than most people in front of him). 
 

In P/60 at 5v5 (minimum 30 GP)

 

Gallager is 18th

Tatar is 20th

Danault is 30th

 

Thats damn good production for a top line at 5v5, especially when you add in their defensive stats. 

The ideal thing for this team would be to keep that line together, and continue to play it against the other team's top lines. 

 

And hope one of Suzuki/KK takes the step into being a 70 point centre.... with Drouin on the wing, and someone on the Right who can also score, and have that line play an easier matchup and put up points. 

 

There is no reason why the Danault line cannot continue to be a 20 minute a game line and part of a winning team.  They real are the closest thing we have seen to the Carboneau line of the late 80s, early 90s, that played those minutes on a Cup Finalist in 89 and Cup Winner in 93.  You just need a Muller-Damphousse, or a Corson-Richer, to be that line that can put up points against easier matchups.   Guys who can also produce on the PP since Danault isn't going to do that. 

The Danault line can absolutely be part of a 1a/1b lineup and since they play the other team's top line, they are going to get the minutes. 

 

 

 

You are right, but based on your analysis we need a good RW (like Toffoli or Bowser) for the Suzuki line and hope that Ylonen and Caufield become a great line with KK mid-term

 

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Suzuki-Armia

Ylonen-Kotkaniemi-Caufield

Lehkonen-Evans-Poehling

 

Edited by alfredoh2009
added fourth line

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1 minute ago, JoeLassister said:

I'd like us to be able to play Caufield with Suzuki and Drouin  sooner than later.   Just like Buffalo did with Olofsson.

 

He's one of the options I was thinking of. 

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1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

You are right, but based on your analysis we need a good RW (like Toffoli or Bowser) for the Suzuki line and hope that Ylonen and Caufield become a great line with KK mid-term

 

 

Well…  Over the years, Habs did have  Larry, Ludwig and Roy.  I guess it's time for Bowser.

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