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Aug. 1, Game 1 - Habs vs Penguins, 8 PM

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16 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Fair enough ... I was generally in that mode until the last year or two ... but I have simply lost patience, and confidence that this management team will ever deliver ... their two best youngsters are KK (when they could have had Thachuk or Hughes ... both the type of player the Habs have desperately lacked for years) and Suzuki (who MB didn't REALLY want in the Pacs trade) ... even small bits of success lets MB continue to sell HOPE ... that, like Houle, Savard, Gainey and Gauthier before him, will likely prove to be false


Let me be clear... If the team is eliminated from the playoffs, I'll cheer for losses and take the draft pick.  But if the wins are meaningful, then i want the wins.  Right now the wins are meaningful.  When the season stopped, I had given up on making the playoffs and was ready to embrace.

 

Also I'd like a source that MB didn't really want Suzuki.  He was the key to the trade by all accounts.  I mean the trade was Suzuki, a 2nd round pick, and Tatar.... at the time Tatar was a salary dump for the VGK as he was benched in the playoffs, a 2nd rounder is nothing special... so it was Suzuki who was the biggest piece in that deal.  I have a hard time believing he didn't really want him.  Of course he asked for Glass first (as Glass was the higher ranked prospect at the time), but I think the key to the trade was absolutely getting one of Glass/Suzuki, getting one of the two high-end centre prospects that the Knights had.   So I think... didn't Really want is kinda going too far.  The trade doesn't get made without one of those centres IMO. 

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10 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

That argument is moot because it isn't like we automatically get him if we lose this series

 

 

I will bet you all of your Habs29 disposable funds that the Habs win this series at 8-1 odds. I might lose the bet, but that might be the dumbest line I ever seen. 

 

And again, you're blaming the win on the performance of our best player as if it is a bad thing. Why is this a narrative? He is our highest paid player. You complain he gets paid so much but then complain when he wins a game by playing great. 

 

Exactly.  If Sid puts up 3 points and the Penguins win 3-2, everyone praises Sid.  And its all about how Sid led his team to victory.

 

If Price shuts down the Penguins, we are lucky that our best player was great.

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15 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

That argument is moot because it isn't like we automatically get him if we lose this series

 

 

I will bet you all of your Habs29 disposable funds that the Habs win this series at 8-1 odds. I might lose the bet, but that might be the dumbest line I ever seen. 

 

And again, you're blaming the win on the performance of our best player as if it is a bad thing. Why is this a narrative? He is our highest paid player. You complain he gets paid so much but then complain when he wins a game by playing great. 

I’m not complaining that we win because if Price, I’m complaining of the crap play around him is the same crap we saw al year - with the exception of Suzuki who looks like he may finally be the elite top line centre that we’ve been without for decades.

but I guess that’s beyond your rose coloured comprehension skills.

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Just now, Commandant said:

 

Exactly.  If Sid puts up 3 points and the Penguins win 3-2, everyone praises Sid.  And its all about how Sid led his team to victory.

 

If Price shuts down the Penguins, we are lucky that our best player was great.

 

It's just one of those irrational things that our fanbase projects, No one else is "Lucky" that MacKinnon had a 4 point night or they would have lost, or Matthews had a hat trick or they would have lost. No one else gets the "Lucky they had their best players,otherwise they would suck." narrative but us, here, it is constantly a "Lucky Montreal had Price to save their butts or they would have been blown out." 

 

Your best players sometimes win you games all on their own, it's why they get paid the big bucks, they can't do it every night, but they can do it on more nights than the rest of the players on their team.

 

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5 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Lafreniere is a more likely path to a Cup than getting past Pittsburgh

 

1 hour ago, illWill said:

That argument is moot because it isn't like we automatically get him if we lose this series

 

NEVER said losing to Pittsburgh meant the Habs would draft draft Lafreniere (although it would guarantee the 9th puck in every round) ... I wasn't even comparing the CHANCES of beating Pittsburgh to the CHANCES of drafting Lafreniere

 

What I was saying was that we are unlikely to win the Cup if we beat Pittsburgh and that the odds are better of winning the right to draft Lafreniere ... and, that adding Lafreniere would move the Habs closer to being a Cup winner than would the chance to play a few playoff games (i.e., beating Pittsburgh)  

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3 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

 

NEVER said losing to Pittsburgh meant the Habs would draft draft Lafreniere (although it would guarantee the 9th puck in every round) ... I wasn't even comparing the CHANCES of beating Pittsburgh to the CHANCES of drafting Lafreniere

 

What was saying was that we are unlikely to win the Cup if we beat Pittsburgh and that the odds are better of winning the right to draft Lafreniere ... and, that adding Lafreniere would move the Habs closer to being a Cup winner than would the chance to play a few playoff games (i.e., beating Pittsburgh)  

 

Okay so you tell those players that are giving it their all that you would rather they don't so that there is a small chance that they can draft a guy that might help them win a cup down the road. 

 

I seen a video of them coming off the ice last night and I can confidently tell you they are going for wins, not draft picks. 

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57 minutes ago, Commandant said:


Let me be clear... If the team is eliminated from the playoffs, I'll cheer for losses and take the draft pick.  But if the wins are meaningful, then i want the wins.  Right now the wins are meaningful.  When the season stopped, I had given up on making the playoffs and was ready to embrace.

 

Also I'd like a source that MB didn't really want Suzuki.  He was the key to the trade by all accounts.  I mean the trade was Suzuki, a 2nd round pick, and Tatar.... at the time Tatar was a salary dump for the VGK as he was benched in the playoffs, a 2nd rounder is nothing special... so it was Suzuki who was the biggest piece in that deal.  I have a hard time believing he didn't really want him.  Of course he asked for Glass first (as Glass was the higher ranked prospect at the time), but I think the key to the trade was absolutely getting one of Glass/Suzuki, getting one of the two high-end centre prospects that the Knights had.   So I think... didn't Really want is kinda going too far.  The trade doesn't get made without one of those centres IMO. 

 

Hard to find trade rumour discussions after a trade is made, best I could find is a post-trade assessment: 

 

In swinging this deal, Golden Knights general manager George McPhee also was able to hold on to his No. 1 prospect, center Cody Glass, who was the 6th overall selection in 2017 by the club.

 

"Holding on" to Glass would indicate that Glass was the target ... what I recall from all the trade rumour reports from that summer is that what held up the trade until the eve of training camp was that MB was pushing for Glass, who at that time was the higher "rated" prospect ... (a) OBVIOUSLY very happy that MB had to "settle" for Suzuki, and (b) shows how much "ratings" can be worth sometimes ... although, in fairness to Glass, he missed 29 games of his last junior season, most/all (?) due to a knee injury ... almost three weeks in December 2019 because of a concussion ... almost several weeks in January(4th)/February (15th) 2020 with a knee injury that then recurred after only two games back (out for the "rest" of season). 

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28 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Okay so you tell those players that are giving it their all that you would rather they don't so that there is a small chance that they can draft a guy that might help them win a cup down the road. 

 

I seen a video of them coming off the ice last night and I can confidently tell you they are going for wins, not draft picks. 

 

NEVER said they wouldn't be going for the wins ... players and coaches always will ... and would never suggest asking/telling the players/coaches not to win ... just that my preference for an outcome is to not beat Pittsburgh ... whether the Habs end up drafting 1st (ideal) or 9th

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34 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

NEVER said they wouldn't be going for the wins ... players and coaches always will ... and would never suggest asking/telling the players/coaches not to win ... just that my preference for an outcome is to not beat Pittsburgh ... whether the Habs end up drafting 1st (ideal) or 9th

 

Cool. I'll keep that in mind if they go on a run here and you show any excitement. I also want video reaction from your house showing that you are upset at any win

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1 minute ago, illWill said:

 

Cool. I'll keep that in mind if they go on a run here and you show any excitement. 

 

Feeling that the need to build for long-term success is more important than the immediate term, non-playoff games doesn't mean that I can't enjoy elements of those games ... for example, VERY happy with how KK and NS played ... bodes well

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Having a 9th overall pick vs a 16th or higher pick doesn't necessarily equate to long term success. The world could end tomorrow, enjoy today. 

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:


Let me be clear... If the team is eliminated from the playoffs, I'll cheer for losses and take the draft pick.  But if the wins are meaningful, then i want the wins.  Right now the wins are meaningful.  When the season stopped, I had given up on making the playoffs and was ready to embrace.

 

Also I'd like a source that MB didn't really want Suzuki.  He was the key to the trade by all accounts.  I mean the trade was Suzuki, a 2nd round pick, and Tatar.... at the time Tatar was a salary dump for the VGK as he was benched in the playoffs, a 2nd rounder is nothing special... so it was Suzuki who was the biggest piece in that deal.  I have a hard time believing he didn't really want him.  Of course he asked for Glass first (as Glass was the higher ranked prospect at the time), but I think the key to the trade was absolutely getting one of Glass/Suzuki, getting one of the two high-end centre prospects that the Knights had.   So I think... didn't Really want is kinda going too far.  The trade doesn't get made without one of those centres IMO. 

That's not opinion... that's a fact

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29 minutes ago, illWill said:

Having a 9th overall pick vs a 16th or higher pick doesn't necessarily equate to long term success. The world could end tomorrow, enjoy today. 

 

All it does is improve the odds ... make the pool the habs fish from larger ... would never claim more

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’m not complaining that we win because if Price, I’m complaining of the crap play around him is the same crap we saw al year - with the exception of Suzuki who looks like he may finally be the elite top line centre that we’ve been without for decades.

but I guess that’s beyond your rose coloured comprehension skills.

Suzuki was amazing but he definitly was not the only player who played well....

I'd add Armia kulak Chairot Weber Tatar and Gally to that list as well.

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1 hour ago, illWill said:

Having a 9th overall pick vs a 16th or higher pick doesn't necessarily equate to long term success. The world could end tomorrow, enjoy today. 

Tankers were hoping for losses and look at where we are now. 
 

To me it’s an extreme fallacy. Drafting is only one small element of the team’s future success. Suzuki was 13th overall, as an example, and here we are quarrelling about 9th vs 16th overall.

 

The team having success in any given year has a positive impact on the future of the club as well. 
 

We all want the 1st overall draft pick, but there is no rational reason to be thinking about it during a potential playoff run. We are obviously not the best team in the league but neither were we in 2002 when Theodore beat the Bruins, or 2010 when we went on an exciting run with major upsets.

 

There’s no one here who thinks we will win the cup. That doesn’t mean we can’t celebrate wins and cheer on the underdog. I heard a comment about MB selling “hope” and fans buying it. Is that really why we want the Habs to lose? So MB can’t brainwash us? When I watch the Habs, I don’t even think of Bergevin. There’s too much focus on the wrong things. 

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57 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Tankers were hoping for losses and look at where we are now. 
 

To me it’s an extreme fallacy. Drafting is only one small element of the team’s future success. Suzuki was 13th overall, as an example, and here we are quarrelling about 9th vs 16th overall.

 

The team having success in any given year has a positive impact on the future of the club as well. 
 

We all want the 1st overall draft pick, but there is no rational reason to be thinking about it during a potential playoff run. We are obviously not the best team in the league but neither were we in 2002 when Theodore beat the Bruins, or 2010 when we went on an exciting run with major upsets.

 

There’s no one here who thinks we will win the cup. That doesn’t mean we can’t celebrate wins and cheer on the underdog. I heard a comment about MB selling “hope” and fans buying it. Is that really why we want the Habs to lose? So MB can’t brainwash us? When I watch the Habs, I don’t even think of Bergevin. There’s too much focus on the wrong things. 

 

You make a lot of good points. Sure, I would love the #1 pick but there is an 87.5% chance we don't get it if we lose.  I don't think they will win the cup either but you get a hot goalie, kids develop quicker than you think, other teams suffer some key injuries and you never know. Right now we are playing with house money,  I am thrilled with any win but won't be crushed if they lose.  I am also thrilled to see the way Suzuki is developing. He is a keeper. 

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15 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Tankers were hoping for losses and look at where we are now. 
 

To me it’s an extreme fallacy. Drafting is only one small element of the team’s future success. Suzuki was 13th overall, as an example, and here we are quarrelling about 9th vs 16th overall.

 

The team having success in any given year has a positive impact on the future of the club as well. 
 

We all want the 1st overall draft pick, but there is no rational reason to be thinking about it during a potential playoff run. We are obviously not the best team in the league but neither were we in 2002 when Theodore beat the Bruins, or 2010 when we went on an exciting run with major upsets.

 

There’s no one here who thinks we will win the cup. That doesn’t mean we can’t celebrate wins and cheer on the underdog. I heard a comment about MB selling “hope” and fans buying it. Is that really why we want the Habs to lose? So MB can’t brainwash us? When I watch the Habs, I don’t even think of Bergevin. There’s too much focus on the wrong things. 


This a rare case where we agree! Great post. The Tankist formula is to hope for crushing defeats until some miraculous moment where the team is declared a ‘contender.’ The problem is that it seldom works so tidily. You need your young players to have what Gainey called ‘experience rich’ games as part of their development arc. Winning a playoff series is a huge piece of that. If and when the Habs ever get back to the playoffs on merit, I want Suzuki (and other young guys) to have experience under their belts. That will up the odds of success next time. 
 

And even for a Tankist, cheering for a loss in our first playoff series since 2017 just to pick 9th rather than 16th seems extreme to me.

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

And even for a Tankist, cheering for a loss in our first playoff series since 2017 just to pick 9th rather than 16th seems extreme to me.

Hear, hear captain Haddock, the Chicoutimi Cucumber ! !

 

I am with you, xXx..CK..xXx, illWill, Commandant and others: that was a heck of a game, I am so happy for the win.

 

I was camping and away from cell phone coverage on Saturday. I had to wait for the atmospheric conditions to change (after 10:00pm) so that I could tune inthe game on my old transistor radio. Listening to over time, in my tent, with the moonlight as only light source was great.

 

I am back home now, looking forward to another fun hockey game. I do not care if the y win or loose, as long as they play hard. I missed hockey and I am glad we got it back.

 

Go Habs Go!

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I think many people underestimate the advantages of winning this series and maybe one or even two more.

Of course, winning playoff games is great for the experience of our young guys but there are many other considerations.

 

If we lose does that increase the chance of Price asking to leave?  If so it really reduces our future cup chances.

 

If we win one or two rounds, I think many free agents will see a team on the rise.  Getting one or two quality free agents (or even keeping our own) would have much more effect than chosing 9th vs 16th.  A loss to the Pens cements us as a bottom 8 team in many minds. 

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BUT; most important...what did Romanov think of Game 1?

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21 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... Drafting is only one small element of the team’s future success. Suzuki was 13th overall, as an example, and here we are quarrelling about 9th vs 16th overall ... 

 

At 9th the habs could have drafted Suzuki ... at 16th they couldn't have ... there are never any guarantees, but the higher the pick the more options a team has

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