GDT Aug. 3, Game 2 - Habs vs Penguins, 8 PM

[DON]

16 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Well they reportedly have been working on the PP for 2 or 3 years so...

3 and 4 years ago Habs PP was near or in top ten...the Markov influence?

[sbhatt]

6 minutes ago, DON said:

3 and 4 years ago Habs PP was near or in top ten...the Markov influence?

 

The lack of a blueline quarterback has hurt us for sure.

[Habsfan89]

9 minutes ago, DON said:

Ya, I don't get that one. Statistically is it help with entries? I assume that is only reason why they all started doing it.

 

 I know what you mean, but just ask 20+ current GMs with no rings how easy that is.

Way to simplistic ask, is not quite so easy to win a cup though.

I know as a habs fan just tired of the same old same old.  Teams will kill to have a goaltender like Price for a playoff run and we're just wasting him away.

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yeah, the Habs have had 3 #3 overall picks on the roster recently: Galy, KK, and Drouin. That's the equivalent of three tank jobs right there. I don't see any new banners in the rafters, though... You don't need to tank. You need elite scouting and player development. Look at Boston.

 

You need to "tank" in the right seasons ... in the right seasons #3 could yield, for example, Miro Heiskanen, Pierre-Luc Dubois, Leon Draisaitl, Jonathan Huberdeau, Matt Duchene or Jonathan Toews.

 

But the "scouting" aspect is a HUGE point ... I would also add in development as too many players never seemed to progress from whet they were when drafted.

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

People who are discussing tanking and draft picks right now are essentially trolls ...

 

No, we are Canadiens fans with a different vision for how to make the Habs a Cup contender ... in my case, it is only in the last 18-24 months that I have lost my optimism and become frustrated with the "what can we do for now" approach

 

2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... Instead we have people bashing Drouin, Weise, Ouellete, etc. ...

 

It is in the nature of fans to focus on their own team ... chirping the other team is for the ice, not the fan boards

[GHT120]

2 hours ago, sbhatt said:

 

True.  Our problem is the inability of our top 6 to score, not 4th line tweaks.  Drouin being in that top 6 is the most glaring problem I have seen in these first 2 games: he has contributed absolutely nothing.  His errant passes and suspect decision making have done as much to help the Penguins PK as any PIttsburgh player has.

 

 

2 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I believe the 3rd and 4th lines play an absolutely huge role in the success of a playoff run. NO team has won a cup or made a run with just a top 6 and not huge contributions form the bottom 6. 

 

I agree with both of you ... responsibility for the Habs lack of offence has to be primarily assigned to the top 6/top4 players ... but in the playoffs, the 3rd/4th lines and 3rd pairing D are also hugely important as in many cases the top 6/top 4 for each side balance out and those lower-ranked players make the difference.

[tomh009]

The Tatar-Domi-Gallagher combination has really atrocious advanced stats (naturalstattrick.com) in spite of the short time on ice, with five scoring chances against and none for.

 

Quote

 

I couldn't watch the third period, though, were they as bad as the stats suggest?

[xXx..CK..xXx]

35 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

No, we are Canadiens fans with a different vision for how to make the Habs a Cup contender ... in my case, it is only in the last 18-24 months that I have lost my optimism and become frustrated with the "what can we do for now" approach

 

 

It is in the nature of fans to focus on their own team ... chirping the other team is for the ice, not the fan boards

No, chirping your own players on a consistent basis are for negative fans. 
 

I can’t say that you’re not a Habs fan because I do not know you, but there is no version of fandom that leads one to hope their team loses. We just had a 3rd overall pick and yet fans want to lose to get a 9th pick over a 16th pick. It’s not over simplified. While anyone would prefer the 1st, even the 9th has been deemed “worth losing for”.

 

If we get the 9th pick this year, “fans” will be asking for us to tank again in a year or two once again. It’s not a method that works.
 

The dominos will always fall as they should.

Once we get a 1st, 2nd, 3rd overall pick it is understandable to get excited. Clamoring for it while we still are in a playoff hunt (even though we like won’t win a cup) is no recipe for success in any which way. 

 

Say it once, that’s fine. Say it over and over and over again regardless of wins or losses and one becomes a troll. 
 

Someone who takes my enjoyment away from winning a game due to comments like “it’s better for us to lose” are considered trolls to me.    If you already understand that the players and coaches are going to give it their all, then continue to state that we should try and lose, that is trolling. It is never the path that the organization will actually take. Therefore, the discussion leads nowhere.

 

 

[Commandant]

12 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

The Tatar-Domi-Gallagher combination has really atrocious advanced stats (naturalstattrick.com) in spite of the short time on ice, with five scoring chances against and none for.

 

 

I couldn't watch the third period, though, were they as bad as the stats suggest?

 

They played mainly the second period and then danault was put back on the line in the third.

 

Mixing the lines didnt work.

 

I think domi needs to go to.the wing though.  Not cause hes playing badly, but because we need his offence further up the lineup. Id sit weise.  Bring in evans to centre the 4th. 

 

Domi - Suzuki - Armia

Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Lehkonen

Byron - Evans - Weal

[GHT120]

29 minutes ago, DON said:

3 and 4 years ago Habs PP was near or in top ten...the Markov influence?

 

20 minutes ago, sbhatt said:

 

The lack of a blueline quarterback has hurt us for sure.

 

Back in his prime (05/06 thru 09/10) Markov led the best PP in the NHL (21.3%), although in those years the team also had Kovalev as a co-QB on the right boards ... but AM's last five seasons (12/13 thru 16/17) the habs were 22nd in the NHL (17.9%)

 

While I completely agree that the lack of a PP-QB is a major problem, I think either the "system" is not optimizing the resources or not getting the players to do follow the system (only they know for certain) ... OR, maybe both ... Suzuki shows promise in the "Kovalev" role ... maybe the Habs need to look for a guy to "hide" on the 3rd pairing/4th line but who can still QB a PP  

[alfredoh2009]

14 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

The Tatar-Domi-Gallagher combination has really atrocious advanced stats (naturalstattrick.com) in spite of the short time on ice, with five scoring chances against and none for.

 

 

I couldn't watch the third period, though, were they as bad as the stats suggest?

Actually, they played well until the second goal. It was downhill after

 

I do not know if he shortened the bench, but he had sat a few players before ; some due to not being in special teams, others for floating 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

2 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I believe the 3rd and 4th lines play an absolutely huge role in the success of a playoff run. NO team has won a cup or made a run with just a top 6 and not huge contributions form the bottom 6. 

The 3rd and 4th line play a crucial role but it doesn’t change the fact that the series will not be decided by Dale Weise vs Teddy Blueger.... unless Dutch Gretzky pots the OT winner in Game 5. 🙂

[GHT120]

1 minute ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

No, chirping your own players on a consistent basis are for negative fans. 
 

I can’t say that you’re not a Habs fan because I do not know you, but there is no version of fandom that leads one to hope their team loses. We just had a 3rd overall pick.

 

Once we get a 1st, 2nd, 3rd overall pick it is understandable to get excited. Clamoring for it while we still are in a playoff hunt (even though we like won’t win a cup) is no recipe for success in any which way. 

 

If we get the 9th pick this year, “fans” will be asking for us to tank again in a year or two once again. It’s not a method that works. The dominos will always fall as they should.
 

Say it once, that’s fine. Say it over and over and over again regardless of wins or losses and one becomes a troll. 
 

Someone who takes my enjoyment away from winning a game due to comments like “it’s better for us to lose” are considered trolls to me.    If you already understand that the players and coaches are going to give it their all, then continue to state that we should try and lose, that is trolling. It is never the path that the organization will actually take. Therefore, the discussion leads to a dead end.

 

 

 

Well, we fundamentally disagree on a few things ... the way forward ... whether fans can be honestly negative about their team and what constitutes a troll ... and I doubt we will ever agree on those things.

 

I have been a Habs fan since Toe Blake's last Cup (68/69) ... I was a "stay positive", "hope for the best" and "always try to win now" guy until about 18-24 months ago ... I then got fed up with mediocrity and lost faith in MB's ability to make the Habs a contender ... when Bergevin traded for Weber it (IMO) the Habs should have been "all-in" mode to try to win a Cup ... but he tinkered and "built through the drat" ... now Price and Weber are 33 and 35 heading into 20/21 and the Habs are still lacking several pieces

 

As for taking away your enjoyment ... you have chosen to give me and others far too much influence on you ... and you are making your definition of a "troll" VERY personal to you ... IMO a troll comes on a team site with the sole intent to belittle the team and annoy the fan group as a whole ... I am not saying you shouldn't enjoy the wins if you choose (but hope you don't allow losses to distress you) ... I am just expressing my views on what is best for the team as I want them to win a Cup as soon as possible ... as I am absolutely certain you do as well ... I just see moderate short-term success as the least likely way to get to that Cup status.

 

We can agree to disagree ... but continue to call me a troll and IMO you are just trolling me

 

[GHT120]

26 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

They played mainly the second period and then danault was put back on the line in the third.

 

Mixing the lines didnt work.

 

I think domi needs to go to.the wing though.  Not cause hes playing badly, but because we need his offence further up the lineup. Id sit weise.  Bring in evans to centre the 4th. 

 

Domi - Suzuki - Armia

Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Lehkonen

Byron - Evans - Weal

 

Like the Evans move ... but may be time to do more than just shuffle the bottom 3 lines ... for example, moving Suzuki to centre with Tartar and Gallagher might optimize the pure skill of that line while Danault's style would (IMO) mix well with Domi and Armia and produce offence in a different way ... I also would flip Byron and Lehkonen ... I've lost faith in Artturi scoring many goals

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

48 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

They played mainly the second period and then danault was put back on the line in the third.

 

Mixing the lines didnt work.

 

I think domi needs to go to.the wing though.  Not cause hes playing badly, but because we need his offence further up the lineup. Id sit weise.  Bring in evans to centre the 4th. 

 

Domi - Suzuki - Armia

Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Lehkonen

Byron - Evans - Weal

 

I've been meaning to suggest this about Domi. He's being wasted with those plugs, and the team needs his skill and moxy. He is maybe the only card we have left to play when it comes to offence.

 

The relative impotence of the Tatar line may be understandable given the monster matchup (Crosby), but the fact is, this team is not talented enough to overcome a "first line" that doesn't generate anything.

 

Also worth noting is that Weber has not gotten off his bomb much at all. Again, understandable, as he is tasked with containing Malkin. But that shot is a huge ingredient in our offensive mix. He has to find a way to fire that cannon a few times a game.

 

For all the talk about KK, Suzuki, and even Kulak (whose rushing game has been a delightful bonus), the Habs cannot survive without reliable offensive contributions from Tatar, Danault, Gally, Weber, Domi, and of course that doofus Drouin. Those guys are the core and there are no two ways about it, they simply need to produce.

 

That said, both games in this series have been close. And that's the recipe: keep it close, get opportunistic goals. We've got the first part down. If we can sustain the former and add the latter, we'll be in good shape. But failing that, it may be over real quick.

[TurdBurglar]

This post isn’t blaming one player for losing last night, but where’s Drouin?  I had to check the stat sheet to see his name.  He played 16 minute according to TSN, but I heard his name all of once last night.  Apparently he lost a faceoff, gave the puck away 3 times, blocked a shot and was a minus 1.  That’s 16 minutes of work right there.  It’s embarassing.

[DON]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

, were they as bad as the stats suggest?

Malkin has ZERO points in the 2 games. Is he as bad as the zero offense suggests?

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

Like the Evans move ... but may be time to do more than just shuffle the bottom 3 lines ... for example, moving Suzuki to centre with Tartar and Gallagher might optimize the pure skill of that line while Danault's style would (IMO) mix well with Domi and Armia and produce offence in a different way ... I also would flip Byron and Lehkonen ... I've lost faith in Artturi scoring many goals

 

Breaking up the Danault line in the second period was a disaster.  I wouldn't touch that line.  They have been largely successful in winning their matchups against either Crosby or Malkin.  They haven't been on the ice for a goal against in two games and they were part of the OT winner.  

In Game 1 they were the only line that didn't get caved in defensively.... 

In Game 2, they were over 70% possession when together... the KK line was great at 80%.  Suzuki's line got destroyed in game 2, so did Domi. 

[Commandant]

55 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I've been meaning to suggest this about Domi. He's being wasted with those plugs, and the team needs his skill and moxy. He is maybe the only card we have left to play when it comes to offence.

 

The relative impotence of the Tatar line may be understandable given the monster matchup (Crosby), but the fact is, this team is not talented enough to overcome a "first line" that doesn't generate anything.

 

Also worth noting is that Weber has not gotten off his bomb much at all. Again, understandable, as he is tasked with containing Malkin. But that shot is a huge ingredient in our offensive mix. He has to find a way to fire that cannon a few times a game.

 

For all the talk about KK, Suzuki, and even Kulak (whose rushing game has been a delightful bonus), the Habs cannot survive without reliable offensive contributions from Tatar, Danault, Gally, Weber, Domi, and of course that doofus Drouin. Those guys are the core and there are no two ways about it, they simply need to produce.

 

That said, both games in this series have been close. And that's the recipe: keep it close, get opportunistic goals. We've got the first part down. If we can sustain the former and add the latter, we'll be in good shape. But failing that, it may be over real quick.

 

The Danault line had 15 shots on goal in game 1, and it was Danault and Gallagher who set up the Petry goal. 

The Danault line and the KK line were the only lines generating any kind of chances last night.  The other two lines are really struggling out there.  I think that's why Domi has to go up with Suzuki.  

The reality is that Suzuki's game 1 was on ES goal... and then outstanding work on the PK.  He really wasn't that great 5v5 against Malkin.   I don't even think its Suzuki's fault... Drouin is really doing nothing offensively and is a defensive liability.  That's why I'm pulling him off that line for Domi.  Domi has done a decent job of pestering and getting in guys like Malkin and especially Crosby's face in this series, so its more than Drouin is doing. 

[DON]

Well, at least Price has showed up ready to play for both games so far and just too bad Habs are slightly outgunned up front.

 

 

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, DON said:

3 and 4 years ago Habs PP was near or in top ten...the Markov influence?

Definitely. Never saw a Habs dman keep clearing attempts in like he did and thread passes through traffic.  Made Souray and komisarik look like all stars and they were nothing without him.  The only wax-hab dmen to have success without Markov were Subban and Streit. He was for sure about best dman since Chelios.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

No, chirping your own players on a consistent basis are for negative fans. 
 

I can’t say that you’re not a Habs fan because I do not know you, but there is no version of fandom that leads one to hope their team loses. We just had a 3rd overall pick and yet fans want to lose to get a 9th pick over a 16th pick. It’s not over simplified. While anyone would prefer the 1st, even the 9th has been deemed “worth losing for”.

 

If we get the 9th pick this year, “fans” will be asking for us to tank again in a year or two once again. It’s not a method that works.
 

The dominos will always fall as they should.

Once we get a 1st, 2nd, 3rd overall pick it is understandable to get excited. Clamoring for it while we still are in a playoff hunt (even though we like won’t win a cup) is no recipe for success in any which way. 

 

Say it once, that’s fine. Say it over and over and over again regardless of wins or losses and one becomes a troll. 
 

Someone who takes my enjoyment away from winning a game due to comments like “it’s better for us to lose” are considered trolls to me.    If you already understand that the players and coaches are going to give it their all, then continue to state that we should try and lose, that is trolling. It is never the path that the organization will actually take. Therefore, the discussion leads nowhere.

 

 

No.  It’s lose and you have a chance at #1 overall or at worst #9.  Win and we are one and done and get #16.  It’s a moot point because we really aren’t good enough to win anyways and had this been a ordinary year, we aren’t a playoff team.  Hell we aren’t even in the playoffs now - were in this play-in thing to secure tv revenues.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

 

Back in his prime (05/06 thru 09/10) Markov led the best PP in the NHL (21.3%), although in those years the team also had Kovalev as a co-QB on the right boards ... but AM's last five seasons (12/13 thru 16/17) the habs were 22nd in the NHL (17.9%)

 

While I completely agree that the lack of a PP-QB is a major problem, I think either the "system" is not optimizing the resources or not getting the players to do follow the system (only they know for certain) ... OR, maybe both ... Suzuki shows promise in the "Kovalev" role ... maybe the Habs need to look for a guy to "hide" on the 3rd pairing/4th line but who can still QB a PP  

Suzuki May be able to play the quarterback role. But I’d prefer getting a traditional QB man and not just someone who blast it like Weber.  With both Subban and Weber the other team has always known the shot was coming and is the go to option. When healthy , Markov could thread it in for the tap in, setup someone in the slot, setup the blast or fire it himself.

 

right now it’s the blast from Weber that is the only chance for scoring.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I've been meaning to suggest this about Domi. He's being wasted with those plugs, and the team needs his skill and moxy. He is maybe the only card we have left to play when it comes to offence.

 

The relative impotence of the Tatar line may be understandable given the monster matchup (Crosby), but the fact is, this team is not talented enough to overcome a "first line" that doesn't generate anything.

 

Also worth noting is that Weber has not gotten off his bomb much at all. Again, understandable, as he is tasked with containing Malkin. But that shot is a huge ingredient in our offensive mix. He has to find a way to fire that cannon a few times a game.

 

For all the talk about KK, Suzuki, and even Kulak (whose rushing game has been a delightful bonus), the Habs cannot survive without reliable offensive contributions from Tatar, Danault, Gally, Weber, Domi, and of course that doofus Drouin. Those guys are the core and there are no two ways about it, they simply need to produce.

 

That said, both games in this series have been close. And that's the recipe: keep it close, get opportunistic goals. We've got the first part down. If we can sustain the former and add the latter, we'll be in good shape. But failing that, it may be over real quick.

My main complaint about Weise is that Domi is that he makes Domi useless as well. Having Domi play with two guys that can’t score waste his play making ability - which is something a team that can’t score simply cannot afford to do.

[GHT120]

10 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

... Hell we aren’t even in the playoffs now - were in this play-in thing to secure tv revenues.

 Exactly ... Chicago and Montreal were included primarily for their TV markets