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7 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

Seriously? I don't think he would make my top-ten list, there are way too many greats ahead of him.

Seriously. I hadn’t said anything about a top x list but he is one of the top 20 Russians of all time, and easily top 5-10 active Russians. (Bobby Hull was the 20th all time Canadian points getter; is he not one of the greatest Canadian players of all time?)
 

Let’s check the salary of those ahead of him:

 

1) Malkin: $9.5 million

2) Ovechkin: $9.38 million

3) Kucherov: $9.5 million

4) Panarin: $11.6 million 

5) Kovalchuk: $700k 

6) Tarasenko: $7.5 million

7) Kuznetsov: $7.8 million 

8. Radulov: $6.25 million

 

This is the list when it comes to points per game. I didn’t skip any names between #7 and #8.

 

When it comes to all time Russians, Radulov’s points per game is hovering around that of Alex Kovalev’s. When Kovalev was around Radulov’s age, he was making $5 million a season. If one accounts for inflation, that number becomes roughly $6.2 million, and pretty much exactly what Radulov is making himself. With that being said, when one accounts for what Montreal may have had to offer him given taxes, it would have been $7.x-8.1 million. 
 

The fact remains that we offered him the $6.25 million contract in a “take it or leave it” manner. Given the fact that Radulov was arguably our best player, I would have offered him at least what Pacioretty is making, in the $7 million range. I can see that $8.1 million is perhaps a number Bergevin never would have went, but to lose a bonafide first line NHL player because of a $1 million dollar difference in opinion is not something I will ever fully agree with. I know those capologists on here will bring up how necessary that $1 million dollars in savings would look on the back end of his contract, but I’d rather have the player on our team.

 

I’m fine with being in the minority but we can’t use the excuse that we have to pay free agents more than other organizations, for whatever the reason be, and then never actually do it. Instead, we had cap space saved in the cookie jar for a few years now.

 

 

 

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As opposed to a fan of a league of subliminal racists, moral cowards and hypocrites like the NHL...

They left Hainsey unprotected on waivers. Not a top dman, but would have been a good top 4 for many years and it was not like we were icing better defencemen in the lineup.   McDonough was our

One of the top active Russians in the NHL? Sure. One of the top 10 all-time Russians in the NHL? Maybe. One of the top 10 all-time Russians (regardless of league)? I really don't think so.

 

Anyway, none of us really know what happened with Radulov's contract. We have snippets of information, but not the full picture. And, to me, it's water under the bridge, even more so than Lafreniere, can't change that now.

 

 

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6 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Seriously. I hadn’t said anything about a top x list but he is one of the top 20 Russians of all time, and easily top 5-10 active Russians. (Bobby Hull was the 20th all time Canadian points getter; is he not one of the greatest Canadian players of all time?)
 

Let’s check the salary of those ahead of him:

 

1) Malkin: $9.5 million

2) Ovechkin: $9.38 million

3) Kucherov: $9.5 million

4) Panarin: $11.6 million 

5) Kovalchuk: $700k 

6) Tarasenko: $7.5 million

7) Kuznetsov: $7.8 million 

8. Radulov: $6.25 million

 

This is the list when it comes to points per game. I didn’t skip any names between #7 and #8.

 

When it comes to all time Russians, Radulov’s points per game is hovering around that of Alex Kovalev’s. When Kovalev was around Radulov’s age, he was making $5 million a season. If one accounts for inflation, that number becomes roughly $6.2 million, and pretty much exactly what Radulov is making himself. With that being said, when one accounts for what Montreal may have had to offer him given taxes, it would have been $7.x-8.1 million. 
 

The fact remains that we offered him the $6.25 million contract in a “take it or leave it” manner. Given the fact that Radulov was arguably our best player, I would have offered him at least what Pacioretty is making, in the $7 million range. I can see that $8.1 million is perhaps a number Bergevin never would have went, but to lose a bonafide first line NHL player because of a $1 million dollar difference in opinion is not something I will ever fully agree with. I know those capologists on here will bring up how necessary that $1 million dollars in savings would look on the back end of his contract, but I’d rather have the player on our team.

 

I’m fine with being in the minority but we can’t use the excuse that we have to pay free agents more than other organizations, for whatever the reason be, and then never actually do it. Instead, we had cap space saved in the cookie jar for a few years now.

 

 

 

So he is better than

1. Ovechkin 

2. Malkin

3. Datsyuk

4.  Bure

5. Fedorov

6. Kuznetsov 

7. Mogilny

8. makarov

9. Larionov

10. Fetisov

11. Zubov 

12. Kovalchuk 

13. PAnarin

14. Zhamnov

15.  Kovolev 

16. Kucherov

17. Vyacheslav Kozlov 

18. kamensky

19. Konstantinov 

20. Tarasenko 

21. Markov

22.  Samsonov 

23. Victor Kozlov 

24. Zhitnik 

25. Gonchar 
25. semin

 

This is just from the top of my head in no particular order.  doesn’t even include the goalies, or a lot more dmen I’ve missed or the all time great Russians that never played in the NHL.
 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

So he is better than

1. Ovechkin 

2. Malkin

3. Datsyuk

4.  Bure

5. Fedorov

6. Kuznetsov 

7. Mogilny

8. makarov

9. Larionov

10. Fetisov

11. Zubov 

12. Kovalchuk 

13. PAnarin

14. Zhamnov

15.  Kovolev 

16. Kucherov

17. Vyacheslav Kozlov 

18. kamensky

19. Konstantinov 

20. Tarasenko 

21. Markov

22.  Samsonov 

23. Victor Kozlov 

24. Zhitnik 

25. Gonchar 
25. semin

 

This is just from the top of my head in no particular order.  doesn’t even include the goalies, or a lot more dmen I’ve missed or the all time great Russians that never played in the NHL.
 

 

 

 

He is one of the greatest Russians to ever play in the NHL.

 

This isn’t in response just to you but why is it relevant that there may be better Russians who have played outside of the NHL? The Canadiens obviously would never have had the chance to sign them. One can argue and nitpick in a snarky way that I’ve said one of the greatest players ever from Russia and that I didn’t specify the NHL, but considering the context what I meant is that the Habs had one of the greatest Russian players of all time, who has played in the NHL, on our team, and he walked. 
 

Considering the NHL is the best league in the world then yes I would also assume he was one of the greatest Russians to ever play the game. 
 

I stated that he is top 20, and yes he is better than some of the players you listed. I never said he was better than Ovechkin or any of those other top 12 players. I was also referring more to forwards but I digress as it wasn’t such a massive point I was making. 

 

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

How do we know that is a fact?  Was his agent leaking negotiations?  


That is such an easy response. Of course “no one here was in the room”. I left out the argument between Radulov and Bergevin about the timing of the offer but both sides have stated that “they offered the same as Dallas”.

 

It’s easy to be a brick wall and state what you’ve said but where is the evidence that Bergevin offered so much more? 
 

All in all, this wasn’t a comment that we should have signed him because I understand that there’s no way to tell whether or not Radulov would have bolted anyway. 
 

The plain purpose of this conversation was the belief that we should have offered Radulov more than we did. If you guys want to pounce on me for that, so be it. The evidence I’ve seen has said we offered the same as Dallas, which was never going to cut it. Digressing the conversation about whether or not Radulov is one of the greatest Russian players of all time is pointless.

 

I once again state that Radulov is the 20th all time Russian points per game leader in the NHL. Bobby Hull was the 20th all time point ls per game leader as a Canadian in the NHL. Is he not one of the all time Canadian greats? 
 

PS: There are so many articles that are easy to look up. I don’t come close to believing everything I read but when Bergevin himself says hr made a final offer to Markov and Radulov and won’t budge, that was a mistake in my opinion. And that’s exactly the point I was trying to make. Everyone’s okay losing him because of a (theoretical yet educated guess) figure of $500k-$1 million? That’s okay, you can all enjoy your boat.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tsn.ca/bergevin-hasn-t-had-talks-with-radulov-markov-since-offers-1.794971%3ftsn-amp

 

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20 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... This isn’t in response just to you but why is it relevant that there may be better Russians who have played outside of the NHL?...

 

Don't disagree that Kovalchuk had a great career and is in any discussion ranking best all-time Russian players ... once the discussion starts the specific rankings will vary by personal opinion ... but the "outside the NHL" was relevant factor as your description of him was "he is one of the best Russian players of all time" ... pre-80/90s lots of Russian players never came to the NHL and are therefore difficult for most of us to assess.

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38 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

He is one of the greatest Russians to ever play in the NHL.

 

This isn’t in response just to you but why is it relevant that there may be better Russians who have played outside of the NHL? The Canadiens obviously would never have had the chance to sign them. One can argue and nitpick in a snarky way that I’ve said one of the greatest players ever from Russia and that I didn’t specify the NHL, but considering the context what I meant is that the Habs had one of the greatest Russian players of all time, who has played in the NHL, on our team, and he walked. 
 

Considering the NHL is the best league in the world then yes I would also assume he was one of the greatest Russians to ever play the game. 
 

I stated that he is top 20, and yes he is better than some of the players you listed. I never said he was better than Ovechkin or any of those other top 12 players. I was also referring more to forwards but I digress as it wasn’t such a massive point I was making. 

 


That is such an easy response. Of course “no one here was in the room”. I left out the argument between Radulov and Bergevin about the timing of the offer but both sides have stated that “they offered the same as Dallas”.

 

It’s easy to be a brick wall and state what you’ve said but where is the evidence that Bergevin offered so much more? 
 

All in all, this wasn’t a comment that we should have signed him because I understand that there’s no way to tell whether or not Radulov would have bolted anyway. 
 

The plain purpose of this conversation was the belief that we should have offered Radulov more than we did. If you guys want to pounce on me for that, so be it. The evidence I’ve seen has said we offered the same as Dallas, which was never going to cut it. Digressing the conversation about whether or not Radulov is one of the greatest Russian players of all time is pointless.

 

I once again state that Radulov is the 20th all time Russian points per game leader in the NHL. Bobby Hull was the 20th all time point ls per game leader as a Canadian in the NHL. Is he not one of the all time Canadian greats? 
 

PS: There are so many articles that are easy to look up. I don’t come close to believing everything I read but when Bergevin himself says hr made a final offer to Markov and Radulov and won’t budge, that was a mistake in my opinion. And that’s exactly the point I was trying to make. Everyone’s okay losing him because of a (theoretical yet educated guess) figure of $500k-$1 million? That’s okay, you can all enjoy your boat.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tsn.ca/bergevin-hasn-t-had-talks-with-radulov-markov-since-offers-1.794971%3ftsn-amp

 

I wanted to resign radulov, but he isn’t even close to the 20 best Russian players of all time. Once you add in goaltenders he’s even outside the top 30.

 

the players I listed had better years and a lot of them much better careers and accomplished a lot more than radulov.

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41 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:


That is such an easy response. Of course “no one here was in the room”. I left out the argument between Radulov and Bergevin about the timing of the offer but both sides have stated that “they offered the same as Dallas”.

 

It’s easy to be a brick wall and state what you’ve said but where is the evidence that Bergevin offered so much more? 
 

 

 

There is no evidence that offered Bergevin offered so much more and I don't remember both sides stating that they offered the same but i could be wrong.  In any event, I think we have beaten this to death as we likely did before.  Time to look forward.

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3 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

In any event, I think we have beaten this to death as we likely did before.  Time to look forward.

 

This.

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https://m.ranker.com/list/russian-nhl-players/ranker-hockey
 

Looks like I’m really so far off.
 

To be that high on a list from a country such as Russia when it comes to hockey makes one an all time great from that country.

 

He has been captain of his national team and is second all time in KHL scoring, since we are bringing up that there are Russian players outside of the NHL.

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14 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

https://m.ranker.com/list/russian-nhl-players/ranker-hockey
 

Looks like I’m really so far off.
 

To be that high on a list from a country such as Russia when it comes to hockey makes one an all time great from that country.

 

He has been captain of his national team and is second all time in KHL scoring, since we are bringing up that there are Russian players outside of the NHL.

Yeah, I don’t give much credence to a sight that ranks Radulov ahead of Panarin, Kubina, or Russian legends like Boris Mikhailov,

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Nice to see the Flyers get shellacked in game 1 of their series. Islanders in 6. 

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14 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Nice to see the Flyers get shellacked in game 1 of their series. Islanders in 6. 

 

Nice to see discussion about the playoffs in this thread! 🤣

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22 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Nice to see the Flyers get shellacked in game 1 of their series. Islanders in 6. 

 

Of course it would tend to point to the Habs not being a "round of 8" team either

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23 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Of course it would tend to point to the Habs not being a "round of 8" team either

Yep. I think the flyers are better than they showed tonight, just like I don’t think we are as good as we looked against the Pens or Flyers.  Flyers also have holes on their blue line, while the isles with Lou at the helm went from being a league doormat to a respectable franchise - despite losing their franchise player to the leafs.

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7 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yeah, I don’t give much credence to a sight that ranks Radulov ahead of Panarin, Kubina, or Russian legends like Boris Mikhailov,

Valeri kharlamov

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9 hours ago, tomh009 said:

 

Nice to see discussion about the playoffs in this thread! 🤣

I am really not sure why the Radulov discussion bothered people so much. It wasn’t me who brought him up but he was brought up as a result of his game 1 performance against Colorado. It looks like he got the game winner in game 2 for Dallas as well.
 

9 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

Of course it would tend to point to the Habs not being a "round of 8" team either

The Habs were the better team for the most part in that series. If we’re not a round of 8 team, which many would indeed agree with, then I suppose the Pens are simply not a playoff calibre team. If we’re going by that logic.

We shellacked Philly twice as well, so we’ll see how they respond. Although I am still going with the Islanders and Trotz in 6 games.

 

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10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yep. I think the flyers are better than they showed tonight, just like I don’t think we are as good as we looked against the Pens or Flyers.

 

I think we were exactly as good as we looked over the ten intense post-season games. Good attitude and team ethic. Good defence. Rock-solid goaltending. Some very good young forwards but we could not score. PP still inept. In total, better than the Penguins and almost as good as the Flyers.

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5 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Valeri kharlamov

That’s who I couldn’t remember the name off.

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

 

I think we were exactly as good as we looked over the ten intense post-season games. Good attitude and team ethic. Good defence. Rock-solid goaltending. Some very good young forwards but we could not score. PP still inept. In total, better than the Penguins and almost as good as the Flyers.

I really was stoked about Suziki and Kk’s progression, I just think our D looked better than it is.

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

 

I think we were exactly as good as we looked over the ten intense post-season games. Good attitude and team ethic. Good defence. Rock-solid goaltending. Some very good young forwards but we could not score. PP still inept. In total, better than the Penguins and almost as good as the Flyers.

 

Good post. But one thing to keep in mind is the difference between a short tourney and a grinding regular season marathon. I said going in that the Habs are a good team "when healthy and rested." Neither of those conditions applies over an average regular season, or a long playoff run.

 

27 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I really was stoked about Suziki and Kk’s progression, I just think our D looked better than it is.

 

Agree. Even Weber - an absolute dominating presence this playoff - cannot play at that level over 82 games. He hadn't scored in 28 prior to the PITT series (for example).

 

The two young C will help for sure, but the team may still need an overall talent upgrade in order to vault beyond precarious bubble status.

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28 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Good post. But one thing to keep in mind is the difference between a short tourney and a grinding regular season marathon. I said going in that the Habs are a good team "when healthy and rested." Neither of those conditions applies over an average regular season, or a long playoff run.

 

I agree. Particularly we need backup goaltending that will take about a third of the load in the regular season, whether that's a UFA signing or Demchenko (assuming Primeau is able to play in the AHL) -- and acceptance of that by Price and Julien. We should rest Weber and Petry from time to time ("load management"!) but that assumes we have some young D who can fill in from time to time.

 

Injuries are something that's harder to control, but well-rested players should also be somewhat less prone to injury.

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12 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... The Habs were the better team for the most part in that series. If we’re not a round of 8 team, which many would indeed agree with, then I suppose the Pens are simply not a playoff calibre team. If we’re going by that logic.

We shellacked Philly twice as well, so we’ll see how they respond. Although I am still going with the Islanders and Trotz in 6 games.

 

 

Just saying that If NYI wipe out a team that beat the Habs 4 of 6, despite ELITE goaltending by Price, then we can't reasonably expect that the Habs would do much better ... THAt said, it is just one game.

 

IMO it is important to remember that these are not "normal playoffs" ... it is a tournament being played when most players are just entering training camp final prep ... Habs were more ready than Pittsburgh but their In Carey We Trust roster model could quite overcome Flyers ... hopefully the playoff experience will serve KK and NS well in future years ... don't know that they wouldn't have started the next season at the same level they showed in recent weeks.

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9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I really was stoked about Suziki and Kk’s progression, I just think our D looked better than it is.

 

Have to agree about NS & KK ... think the habs defence may have looked better than expected in large part because Kulak got his head together but also because Weber, and to a lessor extent Petry, benefited from having to focus energy in single series chucks rather than looking at m onths and months of games ahead of them ... the lack of travel was also great for older players

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