GDT Game 4, Flyers vs Habs, 3 PM

[hab29RETIRED]

59 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Bit of a crash to earth after the highs of the Play-In and Game Two.

 

Those games offered a taste of what it can be like to cheer for a good team - a welcome reminder to those of us who were quite fed up with the diet of non-stop horse excrement.

 

At the end of the day, though, this IS a team which sucked the big one for most of the regular season. Just not good enough. And while the emergence of KK and Suzuki is a huge, potentially transformative development, those gains have been negated by the offensive impotence of our core forwards in particular.

 

Some positive signs for the organization as a whole. But we're a loooong way from actually being winners.

Game two was the win one for the gipper win, now we’re seeing what the team is.
Need Price to win 1-0, 2-1 games.  Price has a .953 save percentage and 1.40 GAA, but it means squat when you can’t score.

 

the good news, the emergence of KK and Suziki is a step in the right direction.  The bad - this is still very much a lower bubble team and desperately need a good young impactful dman - kind of like Sergechev and more reliable scorers with finish than Drouin.  We can talk about puck luck all we want, but typically, players with more skill and grit have better luck.

[illWill]

13 minutes ago, Neech said:

At least getting shut out means that we didn't lose because of Price's gaffe.  Philly is playing like a well-coached team with a slight talent edge, we've controlled the play for decent stretches but just haven't got the bounces.  Very defensive series with not many pucks reaching the net.  You'd hope for Price to be the difference in this situation but Hart has been right there with him.   

 

I think overall this series has been evenly matched, with Philly up in the series due to puck luck. That being said, it is a familiar story line with the Habs where we get scoring opportunities but fail to capitalize on them. 

[hab29RETIRED]

35 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

i still think game 3 was all puck luck. We had missed chances, 6 posts (3 from the kids alone) and Hart made more than a handful point blank saves. Fine you lose 1-0 to Philly and Hart out duels Price (mind you Price played well )

but game 4... I still think Muller mucked this one up from the start. Maybe it was over thinking the last change rather than just rolling his 4 lines systematically like in games 1 and 2.

 

And you bench Gallagher? If he's not hurt Im flabergasted that a relentless workhourse would get benched? Snakebitten is one thing, not trying is another!

 

Anyways, my guess is Poehling gets in tomorrow, has a wonderful game but, its one game to late!

I’m sure I’m Gallagher’s case he wasn’t playing because he’s injured and that is limiting his effectiveness. 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 minute ago, illWill said:

 

I think overall this series has been evenly matched, with Philly up in the series due to puck luck. That being said, it is a familiar story line with the Habs where we get scoring opportunities but fail to capitalize on them. 

We’re evenly matched in goal (even have an edge there), but otherwise, it’s not even close.  Score is showing us to be more closer because of Price.

[illWill]

1 minute ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We’re evenly matched in goal (even have an edge there), but otherwise, it’s not even close.  Score is showing us to be more closer because of Price.

 

Games 1 and 3 could have went either way, game 2 was all Habs and I'll give game 4 to Philly. So at worst it is 3-1 Philly, could be 3-1 Habs, but should be 2-2 IMO. 

[BCHabnut]

18 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We’re evenly matched in goal (even have an edge there), but otherwise, it’s not even close.  Score is showing us to be more closer because of Price.

I disagree.  I think Montreal defense has been fantastic. Very few high danger chances.  The difference is that Philly can play the walls and Montreal can't. Habs need middle of the ice and speed. Philly had three deflections in two games and very few odd man rushes or lateral plays.

[GHT120]

25 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

We’re evenly matched in goal (even have an edge there), but otherwise, it’s not even close.  Score is showing us to be more closer because of Price.

 

Also because, as I've heard from at least a couple of "media experts", Philadelphia is "comfortable playing a low scoring game" and doesn't sell-out defence to try to score another goal.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Listen...the Habs need better players. Absurdly simple, but true.

 

My mantra all along has been that any team which depends upon Drouin to produce is destined to be disappointed. Alas that I haven't been proved wrong on that. That trade was simply a disaster, another one to throw on the pile that extends back to Savard for Chelios. Heck, had we received back an actual quality FW instead of that uselessPOS, who knows, the series might be tied right now.

 

Tatar hasn't been good enough either. I know Commandant doesn't believe in this, but he really does appear to be one of Bergevin's fabled "players who help you get into the playoffs" but don't help you win once you're in them. I like Domi but he isn't good enough either. Too many core players, especially at FW, just aren't good enough.

 

The Trident and Kulak have been great. We really, really need Weber to be ageless - regression from him will make a hash of things and partially negate any gains from the addition of Romanov. And can we count on Kulak to deliver next season, considering what a debacle he was for most of this year?

 

At least, though, we look to be shaping up as a team with strength down the middle. That's a positive sign for the future.

[Commandant]

27 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Listen...the Habs need better players. Absurdly simple, but true.

 

My mantra all along has been that any team which depends upon Drouin to produce is destined to be disappointed. Alas that I haven't been proved wrong on that. That trade was simply a disaster, another one to throw on the pile that extends back to Savard for Chelios. Heck, had we received back an actual quality FW instead of that uselessPOS, who knows, the series might be tied right now.

 

Tatar hasn't been good enough either. I know Commandant doesn't believe in this, but he really does appear to be one of Bergevin's fabled "players who help you get into the playoffs" but don't help you win once you're in them. I like Domi but he isn't good enough either. Too many core players, especially at FW, just aren't good enough.

 

The Trident and Kulak have been great. We really, really need Weber to be ageless - regression from him will make a hash of things and partially negate any gains from the addition of Romanov. And can we count on Kulak to deliver next season, considering what a debacle he was for most of this year?

 

At least, though, we look to be shaping up as a team with strength down the middle. That's a positive sign for the future.

 

Kulak was not a debacle for most of the year.  The stats dont support it, at all.

 

Like Subban used to do, he had several high profile mistakes that make us think he is a bad defender.  But hes not... not at all.

 

His advanced numbers are outstanding.

 

I keep pounding this drum... but the Kulak-Petry pairing is the number 1 pairing in the entire NHL in terms of generating more scoring chances than they give up at 5v5 over the last 2 seasons (minimum 400 minutes together for any pair).  And yes... petry is the better player on that pair.  That said... petry does well, but not as well with other partners.  Kulak also does better with Weber, than any other defenceman on this team does with Weber.  He may not lead his pair, but Kulak is an excellent complementary piece to our RHD.  They play well without him, but they are even better when he is their partner.

 

Can he do it next year over a full season?  Yes, hes done it for 2 full seasons already.  

[tomh009]

24 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Listen...the Habs need better players. Absurdly simple, but true.

 

Sorry, I snipped most of your post, but I wanted to address the crux of your message. Better players, yes. You don't mention goaltending, and you say that the Trident Pitchfork has been great (plus we have some solid D prospects).

 

But up front, we were again frustrated by the lack of scoring. Kotkaniemi and Suzuki looked great for a pair of 20-year-olds, and Danault was solid. But I think we need some wingers who can put the puck in the net. Caufield may be one of them, but I think he alone will not be enough.

[Habsfan89]

We're being out coach, Philadelphia 

 made the right adjustments after game 2 and our coaching staff hasn't been able to find a answer for it. Last 2 games our d hasn't been able to keep the puck in the zone long enough for us to set up plays .

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

21 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

Sorry, I snipped most of your post, but I wanted to address the crux of your message. Better players, yes. You don't mention goaltending, and you say that the Trident Pitchfork has been great (plus we have some solid D prospects).

 

But up front, we were again frustrated by the lack of scoring. Kotkaniemi and Suzuki looked great for a pair of 20-year-olds, and Danault was solid. But I think we need some wingers who can put the puck in the net. Caufield may be one of them, but I think he alone will not be enough.

With C seemingly in good order for once, yes, W is now the priority. (Gallagher will probably not age well, BTW). 
 

If Kulak is as good as Commandant argues, then maybe our LD is not a complete chasm, but a lot depends on Romanov there. And on Weber not aging, like I said before. Petry’s not getting younger either, but that guy seems to age like wine.

 

#1 G is probably solid for another 4 years or so, but we need a good backup. 

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Game two was the win one for the gipper win, now we’re seeing what the team is.
Need Price to win 1-0, 2-1 games.  Price has a .953 save percentage and 1.40 GAA, but it means squat when you can’t score.

 

the good news, the emergence of KK and Suziki is a step in the right direction.  The bad - this is still very much a lower bubble team and desperately need a good young impactful dman - kind of like Sergechev and more reliable scorers with finish than Drouin.  We can talk about puck luck all we want, but typically, players with more skill and grit have better luck.

I don't think D has been a problem in the playoffs. ITS SCORING

 

Tatar

Gallagher

Domi

Danault

Drouin

Armia

Just to name a few...

[Commandant]

Chiarot is not bad... but hes not as good as many believe.  Hes basically a small upgrade on Jordie Benn and really should be the #5 D.

 

He was caught up the ice at least 3 times today, leading to 2 on 1s against.

[tomh009]

7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

With C seemingly in good order for once, yes, W is now the priority. (Gallagher will probably not age well, BTW). 
 

If Kulak is as good as Commandant argues, then maybe our LD is not a complete chasm, but a lot depends on Romanov there. And on Weber not aging, like I said before. Petry’s not getting younger either, but that guy seems to age like wine.

 

#1 G is probably solid for another 4 years or so, but we need a good backup. 

 

LD seems like it might maybe be possibly OK (some weasel words there). Romanov and Norlinder look like solid prospects to add onto Chiarot and Kulak, and we have more in the pipeline. RD will probably need attention sooner as Weber and Petry age and we don't have a solid 3RD at the moment. Unless one of our LD prospects can successfully switch sides.

 

For goal, our hopes need to rest primarily on Demchenko and Primeau. I would prefer the former, and let Primeau get another AHL under his belt, but we really don't know what Demchenko can do yet. McNiven and Lindgren are not likely to be NHL goalies.

[GHT120]

1 minute ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I don't think D has been a problem at in the playoffs. ITS SCORING

 

Tatar

Gallagher

Domi

Danault

Drouin

Armia

Just to name a few...

 

Agreed ... and of that list the only one I would have expected to depend on for goals in the playoffs is Gallagher ... 

[tomh009]

1 minute ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I don't think D has been a problem at in the playoffs. ITS SCORING

 

Tatar

Gallagher

Domi

Danault

Drouin

Armia

Just to name a few...

 

Armia and Gallagher are playing through injuries. Danault has done what we should expect of him -- and I think he was great when paired with Lehkonen and Byron in the Pittsburg series.

[Commandant]

I think fleury and brook will be decent rhd.  We need a guy who projects to the top pair though.

[Habsfan89]

Here's a question, should KM put back together the Tatar/danault/Gallagher line?

[GHT120]

2 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Chiarot is not bad... but hes not as good as many believe.  Hes basically a small upgrade on Jordie Benn and really should be the #5 D.

 

He was caught up the ice at least 3 times today, leading to 2 on 1s against.

 

Think that is harsh ... IMO Chiarot is a solid top 4 LHD ... perhaps not an ideal top pairing LHD (although that perhaps opens the argument about which pairing is the top pairing) but works well with Weber ... but neither are ideal in situations when chances must be taken because a goal is needed ... if punches don't work they van be left behind.

[GHT120]

4 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

Here's a question, should KM put back together the Tatar/danault/Gallagher line?

 

He did this last game ... I would suggest going back to the lines that were used in Game 2 as that was a game that left the Habs feeling good about themselves.

 

I have a funny feeling that the Habs may pull it out tomorrow but not have anything left for game 6

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I don't think D has been a problem in the playoffs. ITS SCORING

 

Tatar

Gallagher

Domi

Danault

Drouin

Armia

Just to name a few...

No question scoring is an issue. We don’t really have a finisher who can get that goal when needed - although Suziki and KK look very promising.  But a lot offence is generated from the D and we don’t have a true QB type of Dman like Markov was that drives the offense and creates chances.  Weber is a shooter, not a passer.  Petry is good and gets his points, but can’t take over a game.  For so long we had Markov and good goaltending and Markov helped both his D partners and forwards score a lot of goals and they probably wouldn’t have scored as many without Markov.  The lack of true QB is a reason why the PP has sucked for so long.

Look at how the Avs this year.  They were deviated by injuries, but had both a forward in McKinnon and a stud rookie Dman in Makar driving the offence didn’t miss a beat.  Same with the Canucks. Main difference for them has been Hughes driving the offence and the PP.  Granted they have good young forwards, but the big change this year was adding that QB on the point.

So while I totally agree we need forwards with more finish and grit, we need a true QB on the blueline.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

 

LD seems like it might maybe be possibly OK (some weasel words there). Romanov and Norlinder look like solid prospects to add onto Chiarot and Kulak, and we have more in the pipeline. RD will probably need attention sooner as Weber and Petry age and we don't have a solid 3RD at the moment. Unless one of our LD prospects can successfully switch sides.

 

For goal, our hopes need to rest primarily on Demchenko and Primeau. I would prefer the former, and let Primeau get another AHL under his belt, but we really don't know what Demchenko can do yet. McNiven and Lindgren are not likely to be NHL goalies.

I agree about Primeau- assuming there is an AHL this year, otherwise, you have to play him and maybe platoon 3 goalies.

[hab29RETIRED]

2 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

I disagree.  I think Montreal defense has been fantastic. Very few high danger chances.  The difference is that Philly can play the walls and Montreal can't. Habs need middle of the ice and speed. Philly had three deflections in two games and very few odd man rushes or lateral plays.

I think Price has made the D look better than it is. Lots of sloppy play and blown coverages.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

 

Armia and Gallagher are playing through injuries. Danault has done what we should expect of him -- and I think he was great when paired with Lehkonen and Byron in the Pittsburg series.

I don’t know why they broke up that pairing, unless Gallagher’s injury is more serious and they know that he can only be relied on to play defensively responsible.  It looked like he had some lower body issues, but He’s not the streaky player that MaxPac was, so not sure if their may be other other upper body issues effective his shooting ability.