Jump to content

Game 4, Flyers vs Habs, 3 PM


dlbalr

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, DON said:

CBJ has no one even close to Weber all round and offensively equal top 2 (but overall Habs top 2 outpoint em in both reg season and playoffs), while Habs have Weber and Petry and even Chiarot had 9g.

And 3rd pairing..who cares, but likley flip a coin.

 

:gohabsgo:

 

Jones and Weber are on the same level. He's gonna win a Norris before too long. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, DON said:

For sure, Habs could easily do without a winger and adding a Sergachev seems is just what is needed to help solidify the backend.

I still remember Bergevin hinting Drouin being from Quebec was a factor (bonus) in the deal...which is total BS that drives me bonkers!

 

I suspect the trade was made primarily as a PR move after a disastrous season. Exactly like the Chelios trade, come to think of it

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I suspect the trade was made primarily as a PR move after a disastrous season. Exactly like the Chelios trade, come to think of it

 

And even there it failed. Given how far out of favor Drouin was in Tampa, it was stunning to give up MORE than just Sergachev to get him. I doubt many teams were in the same ballpark on an offer.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DON said:

Of course YOU would.:popcorn:

If you want less offense and weaker defense, that is the way to go.

You don’t think Jones (who may well be the best dman in the league) and Werenski are better than Weber and Petry/Chariot?  And a lot younger as well!!!

Hell I’d trade all of our top 4 for those two.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, DON said:

For sure, Habs could easily do without a winger and adding a Sergachev seems is just what is needed to help solidify the backend.

I still remember Bergevin hinting Drouin being from Quebec was a factor (bonus) in the deal...which is total BS that drives me bonkers!

It was a horrible trade - I was vocal at the time, and the fact that being French played a factor makes it even worse.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

A desperation trade. You almost always get taken advantage of when you make those. (Same in any business, for that matter.)

Yes. And a sign of a good GM is that they don’t make a desperation trade. Certainly not 5 years into the job.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Yes. And a sign of a good GM is that they don’t make a desperation trade. Certainly not 5 years into the job.

 

The only possible mitigating factor is that he may have had orders from Molson: "go get a French star, and hey, this Drouin is available." That's what happened when Serge Savard traded Chelios; he was bullied by that idiot Corey into doing it. Same was true of the Carbo trade.

 

Absent dumb-bell ownership, MB just plain screwed the pooch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The only possible mitigating factor is that he may have had orders from Molson: "go get a French star, and hey, this Drouin is available." That's what happened when Serge Savard traded Chelios; he was bullied by that idiot Corey into doing it. Same was true of the Carbo trade.

 

Absent dumb-bell ownership, MB just plain screwed the pooch.

I didn’t have an issue at the. Taking a flyer on Drouin - but it was stupid to give up our best prospect for him.  When you consider that TBL had cap issues and needed to move someone and he was the one that was out of favour, made the deal even more ridiculous.  2nd round pick?  Sure. Mccarron no problem , I’d even through in a 2nd. But your best prospect, when you said how important the draft is??? Stupid as stupid gets.

 

with respect to carbo/chelios, that was more Ronald Corey than ownership.  Ownership was not as meddlesome as it is now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess all it takes is a couple losses to get the boo birds all fired up. 

 

It's easy to dump on the Drouin trade since he hasn't produced in these playoffs so far, but keep in mind that half the team has gone silent on the score sheet. Drouin was our best forward to start the year before he got injured. And I don't see how it was such a terrible trade at the time when we acquired a 3rd overall pick who just came off a 53 point season in 73 games as a 21/22 year old. I'd love to see Yzerman's reaction when Habs29 offers up a 2nd round pick for him like he suggested. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DON said:

... Norlinder likely is a better prospect with higher ceiling ...

 

I was thinking the same thing ... hidden away in Europe he is almost out of sight out of mind ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, illWill said:

I guess all it takes is a couple losses to get the boo birds all fired up. 

 

It's easy to dump on the Drouin trade since he hasn't produced in these playoffs so far, but keep in mind that half the team has gone silent on the score sheet. Drouin was our best forward to start the year before he got injured. And I don't see how it was such a terrible trade at the time when we acquired a 3rd overall pick who just came off a 53 point season in 73 games as a 21/22 year old. I'd love to see Yzerman's reaction when Habs29 offers up a 2nd round pick for him like he suggested. 

First of all I dumped on the trade when it happened. And secondly - I wouldn’t care about Yzerman’s response, because he is trying to get whatever he can get, but that doesn’t mean I have to make a deal I don’t like, or was bad the moment it was made. Yakapov scores on a close to 30 goal pace in his first season. Would you have traded Gallagher for him, in yakapov’s third season?  Galchenyuk scores 30.  Drouin a good years are his outliers so far. He has the same issues, oozes with skill but like the scarecrow in wizard of oz, he obviously has no brain. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Jones shouldn't be in the Norris conversation.

 

He's massively overrated. 

He’ll be a a regular Norris finalist in the next few years.

 

didnt you also say Horvat was over-rated?  I’d take him over a drouin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think you are really under rating Slavin.  I think he’s their best dman.  My point though was to show that from team that don’t have much scoring (though Carolina has Aho and Svechnikov) and are bubble teams, those teams have a D that structurally looks better and looks to be better going forward.  They both are pretty sound defensively and are built for today’s game and don’t have a $10.5m goalie to bail them out.  I think both have a bright future and I am amazed how Columbus has done after losing so many free agents.  I respect them for rolling the dice and selling off a lot of draft picks when they shout they had a chance and respect them even more for how they’ve played given their losses.  Hurts even more now that the Aho RFA off we want for more money that may have would have involved them getting more and better picks, because he is a forward that can take over a game and I can only imagine what a top three of Aho, KK and Suzuki would be like.

 

As far as the lineups. I like your suggested lineups and at this point there is nothing to lose rolling the dice and giving Poehling a shot to show what he can do.  Some have commented that he hasn’t impressed in practice. 

I think Slavin is great... thats why I have him better the Chairot in a top LD spot...

 

Your question was would we trade our top 4 for the Carolina top 4 .

I listed who I thought was better...

I prefer petry and weber on the right and Slavin on the left. Skjei and Kulak are equal to me.

 

As for Poehling and where he's at in development... NOBODY really  knows. There's been ZERO reports no analysis no practices no exhibition no nothing. Its all assumptions and presumptions. 

 

For someone to say Weise is ahead of him is laughable...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I think Slavin is great... thats why I have him better the Chairot in a top LD spot...

 

Your question was would we trade our top 4 for the Carolina top 4 .

I listed who I thought was better...

I prefer petry and weber on the right and Slavin on the left. Skjei and Kulak are equal to me.

 

As for Poehling and where he's at in development... NOBODY really  knows. There's been ZERO reports no analysis no practices no exhibition no nothing. Its all assumptions and presumptions. 

 

For someone to say Weise is ahead of him is laughable...

 

But weise always gives 110% (whatever that means) in practice and loves playing for the habs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Philly’s success is above all a testament to Vigneault’s coaching.

 

Can’t speak to Muller’s merits or demerits - and I think any coach would have pulled out the blender after five periods of being shut out.  That said, I doubt he is in Julien’s class, let alone Vigneault’s. His track record is not promising.

 

I agree with PM Koivu that Domi has probably played himself out of the Habs’ future, and hopefully Drouin has as well. And everyone and his dog can see that playing Mete in the wrong side to accommodate Oulette (!) is either a dumb coaching move or a testament to inadequate depth on D. That pairing blows.

Muller started the blender after 2 periods 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Jones shouldn't be in the Norris conversation.

 

He's massively overrated. 

 

:rolleyes:  I was going to ignore it the first time you said it, but now that you've said it again, rolling my eyes is pretty much the nicest thing I can say. Seth Jones is not overrated. Not by a long shot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

But weise always gives 110% (whatever that means) in practice and loves playing for the habs.

Exactly... its these types of no risk no reward decisions that cause you to lose more then win. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, illWill said:

... It's easy to dump on the Drouin trade since he hasn't produced in these playoffs so far, but keep in mind that half the team has gone silent on the score sheet. Drouin was our best forward to start the year before he got injured. And I don't see how it was such a terrible trade at the time when we acquired a 3rd overall pick who just came off a 53 point season in 73 games as a 21/22 year old. I'd love to see Yzerman's reaction when Habs29 offers up a 2nd round pick for him like he suggested. 

 

It is easy to dump on Drouin because since joining Habs he has scored at a 17 goals per 82 games pace ... he just hasn't produced at the level he was acquired to provide.

 

I agree that at the time it was a bold move but not a terrible trade ... unfortunately Sergachev has developed as hoped/expected and Drouin has not ... think he could blossom as a secondary scorer/assist machine on a team with a true sniper  (Colorado and MacKinnon?)... but as Habs roster has been constituted since he arrived, he has been the Habs most offensively skilled player (KK and Suzuki may have now exceeded him) but in his three seasons as a Hab he is 5th in goals scored despite being second in games played by 18 games amongst those top 5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

:rolleyes:  I was going to ignore it the first time you said it, but now that you've said it again, rolling my eyes is pretty much the nicest thing I can say. Seth Jones is not overrated. Not by a long shot.

Agree here. He's not overrated... he's 25 has size, skill and is one of the most fluid skaters in the league on the backline. It helps to play with another stud in Werenski no doubt. But I for one think he's part of the upper echelon of top defenders.

Would I take those 2 over Weber and Petry at the same age is whole other question though. I really like Werenski's game on the left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Muller started the blender after 2 periods 

 

I said, after five periods of being shut out. Which is correct.

 

Muller cannot be criticized for the blender as such. If he had just left the lines alone and been rewarded with two consecutive shutouts, he'd also be criticized. And there's not a coach in hockey who would not mix lines after 100 minutes of offensively impotent hockey.

 

14 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

It is easy to dump on Drouin because since joining Habs he has scored at a 17 goals per 82 games pace ... he just hasn't produced at the level he was acquired to provide.

 

I agree that at the time it was a bold move but not a terrible trade ... unfortunately Sergachev has developed as hoped/expected and Drouin has not ... think he could blossom as a secondary scorer/assist machine on a team with a true sniper  (Colorado and MacKinnon?)... but as Habs roster has been constituted since he arrived, he has been the Habs most offensively skilled player (KK and Suzuki may have now exceeded him) but in his three seasons as a Hab he is 5th in goals scored despite being second in games played by 18 games amongst those top 5.

 

Trades are ultimately judged by how they work out. I mean, the year before we got Denis Savard he had 80 points in 60 games; so on paper the trade looked defensible. But on the ice, it was a debacle. Similarly, if we'd gotten 70-point Gomez instead of a guy whose game completely cratered after one year in the CH, that trade wouldn't look so bad either. Doesn't mean the trade worked out.

 

And this trade rather conspicuously has not worked out. Drouin has never topped 53 points in 5+ NHL seasons. That looks to be his ceiling, despite his undoubted hand-eye skills. Sure, he goes on hot streaks; so did Jan Bulis, Brian Savage, Andrei Kostitsyn, and Galchenyuk. So I agree with you, and against Drouin's defenders, I fail to see why we should pay more attention to an October hot streak in assessing this guy than in the overall pattern of his career, which shows him to be almost the prototype of a talented player you can never rely on to consistently deliver. As I've said before: big hat, no cattle.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

It is easy to dump on Drouin because since joining Habs he has scored at a 17 goals per 82 games pace ... he just hasn't produced at the level he was acquired to provide.

 

I agree that at the time it was a bold move but not a terrible trade ... unfortunately Sergachev has developed as hoped/expected and Drouin has not ... think he could blossom as a secondary scorer/assist machine on a team with a true sniper  (Colorado and MacKinnon?)... but as Habs roster has been constituted since he arrived, he has been the Habs most offensively skilled player (KK and Suzuki may have now exceeded him) but in his three seasons as a Hab he is 5th in goals scored despite being second in games played by 18 games amongst those top 5.

Let's not beat ourselves up on this issue. DROUIN FOR SERGACHEV was a complete disaster... 

 

MB was burned in that trade. It was a loss for the organization. However, he made up for it 10 fold in the Pacioretty deal alone, let alone the fleecing of Calgary for Kulak, robbing Edmonton of Petry or scooping up Byron for nothing  just to name a few...

 

Kulak Petry

Sergachev Weber

Chairot Fleury

 

Would of been nice right now

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

It is easy to dump on Drouin because since joining Habs he has scored at a 17 goals per 82 games pace ... he just hasn't produced at the level he was acquired to provide.

 

I agree that at the time it was a bold move but not a terrible trade ... unfortunately Sergachev has developed as hoped/expected and Drouin has not ... think he could blossom as a secondary scorer/assist machine on a team with a true sniper  (Colorado and MacKinnon?)... but as Habs roster has been constituted since he arrived, he has been the Habs most offensively skilled player (KK and Suzuki may have now exceeded him) but in his three seasons as a Hab he is 5th in goals scored despite being second in games played by 18 games amongst those top 5.

 

He averages 49 points per 82 game season for his career and is paid 5.5m per year and that seems about right to me. The only concern I had about the trade and still have is not that Sergachev is necessarily better, but that we traded a defenseman for a winger. But I was and am still hopeful he can play more consistently. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Let's not beat ourselves up on this issue. DROUIN FOR SERGACHEV was a complete disaster... 

 

MB was burned in that trade. It was a loss for the organization. However, he made up for it 10 fold in the Pacioretty deal alone, let alone the fleecing of Calgary for Kulak, robbing Edmonton of Petry or scooping up Byron for nothing  just to name a few...

 

Kulak Petry

Sergachev Weber

Chairot Fleury

 

Would of been nice right now

 

 

 

Let's not overstate things. Edmonton wasn't fleeced. Petry was traded as a rental player. We just got lucky that he liked Montreal and stuck around. Edmonton was going to lose him for nothing. It's not like they were trading the present incarnation of Jeff Petry. He developed his offensive game a lot since joining Montreal. He didn't show that kind of offensive upside in Edmonton.

 

Kulak and Byron were nice pickups, but let's not get too excited about depth players. Bergeron has pretty much thrown darts at a dart board acquiring depth players and hoping some pay off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...