Fanpuck33 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 They deserved better last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Fanpuck33 said: They deserved better last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 12 hours ago, Habsfan89 said: This just shows we're not a deep team I wouldnt say that, they just need an elite forward or two (Oho or Point would of fit in very nicely). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 12 hours ago, tomh009 said: Yeah, after tonight's game, based on just gut feeling, I would even keep Drouin first. And Domi probably has more rade value. Domi has averaged 62pts/82gm with Habs and needs new contract. Basically just he and Evans of the forwards needs new deal this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Usually, in a playoff series, you look at the outcome and say the teams deserved what they got - or else that the better team got beaten by a hot goalie. In this instance, the winning team deserved three of its four victories, but won the clinching game by sheer luck. Frustrating. Hart did not impress me all that much. He is a good #1 goalie, but seems over-hyped - his numbers inflated because he plays behind one of the league's very best team-defense systems. Whenever that system faltered, the Habs shellacked him. Anyway... "The future looks bright"...maybe. My problem is, I heard this after playoff exits in 1996, 2008, 2011, and even 2015 - and each time was a mirage. So I'll say simply that Suzuki is a can't-miss kid, while Kotkaniemi showed that he clearly has the capacity to be a dominant power forward in the NHL. I didn't like KK's game last night, which bothers me a little bit. I'd have liked to see him slot right back in after the misconduct and pick up where he left off. I continue to worry about the bipolar nature of the way the team is built. We two high-ceiling youngsters, a middling guy in Mete, and some OK-looking additional youth in Evans (who definitely impressed), etc.. The Tsar, a possible #1 D, is in the wings. Caulfield will arrive eventually. But the veteran core - the rock on which the team is built - cannot realistically be pencilled in for more than about three further seasons of play at their current level. That includes Weber, Petry, Gallagher, and Price. So it will not be a matter of adding youth to a veteran core. It will, rather, be a matter of supplanting that core. To have those guys age out while the young guys mature is a recipe for lateral movement, a perpetual bubble franchise, not contention. So MB will need to do more than just sit around and have those guys age out; he needs to have a creative plan for what to do with these vets. It's my ongoing question: what is the Cup window for this franchise? I'm still not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted August 22, 2020 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 48 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Kotkaniemi showed that he clearly has the capacity to be a dominant power forward in the NHL. I didn't like KK's game last night, which bothers me a little bit. I'd have liked to see him slot right back in after the misconduct and pick up where he left off. I really think he was tentative after the major and misconduct: he wasn't confident any more about how hard he should throw his body. This should improve as some time passes and the major fades a bit from his memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, tomh009 said: I really think he was tentative after the major and misconduct: he wasn't confident any more about how hard he should throw his body. This should improve as some time passes and the major fades a bit from his memory. That’s normal. Moreano with a young player after his first suspension, unless he’s an SOB and plain stupid like Marchand or Carcillo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: . But the veteran core - the rock on which the team is built - cannot realistically be pencilled in for more than about three further seasons of play at their current level. By its nature, all veteran cores are not on upside of careers. If Primeau can show he is NHL ready soon, other than contract $, might be fine at that position (with goalies who the hell knows how will project). And maybe Weber slows, seems have lots of youth in that dept, just not any definite top pairing prospects so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 4 hours ago, DON said: Domi has averaged 62pts/82gm with Habs and needs new contract. Basically just he and Evans of the forwards needs new deal this year. He is not an NHLer yet(?!) but Vejdemo also needs to be signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Our coach started superstar Domi on the 4th line. That says a whole lot right there. Domi has strength in the offensive zone especially with the puck but he is utterly useless in his own zone and the neutral zone. Throw in a bunch of incredibly selfish and stupid and unnecessary penalties and you have a player that IMO and maybe CJ's does not belong on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Another question...how do we feel about Muller? In the tragic event that CJ’s health forces him to retire- and the Habs grow the stones to work around his linguistic limitations- are we OK with him running the ship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Usually, in a playoff series, you look at the outcome and say the teams deserved what they got - or else that the better team got beaten by a hot goalie. In this instance, the winning team deserved three of its four victories, but won the clinching game by sheer luck. Frustrating. Hart did not impress me all that much. He is a good #1 goalie, but seems over-hyped - his numbers inflated because he plays behind one of the league's very best team-defense systems. Whenever that system faltered, the Habs shellacked him. Anyway... "The future looks bright"...maybe. My problem is, I heard this after playoff exits in 1996, 2008, 2011, and even 2015 - and each time was a mirage. So I'll say simply that Suzuki is a can't-miss kid, while Kotkaniemi showed that he clearly has the capacity to be a dominant power forward in the NHL. I didn't like KK's game last night, which bothers me a little bit. I'd have liked to see him slot right back in after the misconduct and pick up where he left off. I continue to worry about the bipolar nature of the way the team is built. We two high-ceiling youngsters, a middling guy in Mete, and some OK-looking additional youth in Evans (who definitely impressed), etc.. The Tsar, a possible #1 D, is in the wings. Caulfield will arrive eventually. But the veteran core - the rock on which the team is built - cannot realistically be pencilled in for more than about three further seasons of play at their current level. That includes Weber, Petry, Gallagher, and Price. So it will not be a matter of adding youth to a veteran core. It will, rather, be a matter of supplanting that core. To have those guys age out while the young guys mature is a recipe for lateral movement, a perpetual bubble franchise, not contention. So MB will need to do more than just sit around and have those guys age out; he needs to have a creative plan for what to do with these vets. It's my ongoing question: what is the Cup window for this franchise? I'm still not sure. Regarding KK I noticed an massive difference in his style of play depending on his linemates. With high skilled mates he is more aggressive, attempts riskier passes, drives the net and generally gives of the vibe of - lets go score. When he is paired with the Lehkonen/Byrons KK holds back, does not drive the net, simple passes, more defensive posture. Drouin - KK - Domi was very dangerous Drouin - KK - Suzuki for the couple of shifts we saw that, were savagely dangerous I don't really know what this means for KK but this is what I saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Just now, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Another question...how do we feel about Muller? In the tragic event that CJ’s health forces him to retire- and the Habs grow the stones to work around his linguistic limitations- are we OK with him running the ship? I like that he is willing to try things where as IMO CJ is pretty rigid. Even if he learned french I don't think he is good enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 5 hours ago, DON said: Domi has averaged 62pts/82gm with Habs and needs new contract. Basically just he and Evans of the forwards needs new deal this year. Averaging hides all sorts of detail ... 72 points vs 51 (prorated to 82 games) as a Hab ... if his first season in Montreal is the outlier then 50-ish points is more his norm THAt will be the challenge in a new contract ... Max will undoubtedly want 72 point money and doubt Habs are interested in paying that ... given Domi's playoffs, and the Habs need to upgrade the roster, I expect he will be bundled in a deal ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Another question...how do we feel about Muller? In the tragic event that CJ’s health forces him to retire- and the Habs grow the stones to work around his linguistic limitations- are we OK with him running the ship? Why thank you for asking. 😉 I find it interesting that I have seen members here voice displeasure of MB and CJ but I havent seen anyone yet to bash KM, and I dont understand why not. Who is the Habs PP coach? The Habs PP has been dismal for years so it seems fairly obvious to me that they need somebody better. I think it is ludicrous to ask if KM should be promoted to running the ship, I believe the correct question is if he should even be on the ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Averaging hides all sorts of detail ... 72 points vs 51 (prorated to 82 games) as a Hab ... if his first season in Montreal is the outlier then 50-ish points is more his norm THAt will be the challenge in a new contract ... Max will undoubtedly want 72 point money and doubt Habs are interested in paying that ... given Domi's playoffs, and the Habs need to upgrade the roster, I expect he will be bundled in a deal ... wonder if Domi and a Dman like Mera would get Nylander our of Toronto. Not really that high on Nylander, but would take him over Domi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 3 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Usually, in a playoff series, you look at the outcome and say the teams deserved what they got - or else that the better team got beaten by a hot goalie. In this instance, the winning team deserved three of its four victories, but won the clinching game by sheer luck. Frustrating. Hart did not impress me all that much. He is a good #1 goalie, but seems over-hyped - his numbers inflated because he plays behind one of the league's very best team-defense systems. Whenever that system faltered, the Habs shellacked him. Anyway... "The future looks bright"...maybe. My problem is, I heard this after playoff exits in 1996, 2008, 2011, and even 2015 - and each time was a mirage. So I'll say simply that Suzuki is a can't-miss kid, while Kotkaniemi showed that he clearly has the capacity to be a dominant power forward in the NHL. I didn't like KK's game last night, which bothers me a little bit. I'd have liked to see him slot right back in after the misconduct and pick up where he left off. I continue to worry about the bipolar nature of the way the team is built. We two high-ceiling youngsters, a middling guy in Mete, and some OK-looking additional youth in Evans (who definitely impressed), etc.. The Tsar, a possible #1 D, is in the wings. Caulfield will arrive eventually. But the veteran core - the rock on which the team is built - cannot realistically be pencilled in for more than about three further seasons of play at their current level. That includes Weber, Petry, Gallagher, and Price. So it will not be a matter of adding youth to a veteran core. It will, rather, be a matter of supplanting that core. To have those guys age out while the young guys mature is a recipe for lateral movement, a perpetual bubble franchise, not contention. So MB will need to do more than just sit around and have those guys age out; he needs to have a creative plan for what to do with these vets. It's my ongoing question: what is the Cup window for this franchise? I'm still not sure. What is this team? What would the result have been if the goalies were switched? I suspect the series would have been 4, maybe 5 games and not as tightly contested ... by which I mean that outside of the goaltender, the Habs roster is not yet playoff level ... upgrades are needed and it is important to not let the playoff invitation and outstanding performance by Price hide that fact. IMO the Cup window is 21/22 ... Romanov no longer a rookie, KK and Suzuki get another year of experience, two off-seasons to upgrade the top 6 wing situation and Weber/Petry/Price should still be effective ... beyond that I fear Weber and Price declining ... Shea more than Carey but Habs may no longer be able to rely on goaltending of the all-world kind ... Gallagher is also a question mark ... BG's heart, courage and skill will endure but not certain the body will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Another question...how do we feel about Muller? In the tragic event that CJ’s health forces him to retire- and the Habs grow the stones to work around his linguistic limitations- are we OK with him running the ship? 28 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said: Why thank you for asking. 😉 I find it interesting that I have seen members here voice displeasure of MB and CJ but I havent seen anyone yet to bash KM, and I dont understand why not. Who is the Habs PP coach? The Habs PP has been dismal for years so it seems fairly obvious to me that they need somebody better. I think it is ludicrous to ask if KM should be promoted to running the ship, I believe the correct question is if he should even be on the ship. CJ is back unless he decides to step aside ... and I doubt he will ... he coached the team past Pittsburgh, and firing a guy after a health crisis would be classless ... but if he does, in the four seasons since Muller returned the PP has been 13th, 12th, 30th and 22nd ... IMO it is time for him to move on as an assistant so he wouldn't be in consideration if the HC position opens up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 21 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: wonder if Domi and a Dman like Mera would get Nylander our of Toronto. Not really that high on Nylander, but would take him over Domi. That is the trade I proposed on the trade thread. I packaged to relieve Toronto of Cap space and to fill some of the Habs holes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: wonder if Domi and a Dman like Mera would get Nylander our of Toronto. Not really that high on Nylander, but would take him over Domi. IMO Domi has more fan appeal than team appeal in TO, and I am in the Mete is a 3rd pairing defenceman camp (but accept that not all agree) ... so I doubt it would be what TO would be looking for in a Nylander trade ... and even if it is, I am neither certain his last season will prove to be repeatable nor am I certain the "apple falls far from the tree" and his dad was never a "team" guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted August 22, 2020 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 30 minutes ago, GHT120 said: CJ is back unless he decides to step aside ... and I doubt he will ... he coached the team past Pittsburgh, and firing a guy after a health crisis would be classless ... but if he does, in the four seasons since Muller returned the PP has been 13th, 12th, 30th and 22nd ... IMO it is time for him to move on as an assistant so he wouldn't be in consideration if the HC position opens up The past PP performance is indeed a black mark on Muller's record, but we don't know whether it has actually been all his work. In the Flyers series, after Muller took over, our PP looked decent and went 4/20 (20%). I think I would be OK with Captain Kirk. But that assumes that Julien decides to retire (not likely, I agree) and that Bergevin is willing to break precedent and sign up a coach that is nowhere near fluent in French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: CJ is back unless he decides to step aside ... and I doubt he will ... he coached the team past Pittsburgh, and firing a guy after a health crisis would be classless ... but if he does, in the four seasons since Muller returned the PP has been 13th, 12th, 30th and 22nd ... IMO it is time for him to move on as an assistant so he wouldn't be in consideration if the HC position opens up I'm not 100% sold on CJ but I'm not suggesting that he should be fired, but in the event that his health doesnt allow him to continue it will be an issue of who to replace him with. I would not consider KM at all. I question if KM should be the AC and theres no way I would suggest promoting him. 1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said: wonder if Domi and a Dman like Mera would get Nylander our of Toronto. Not really that high on Nylander, but would take him over Domi. I often agree with you say but a big oh hell no to trading Domi to the Leafs. That is potentially an absolutely terrible idea. If the Leafs were the only team in the NHL that would take Domi I would probably sign him long term with the intention of sending him to the AHL to rot forever before I'd trade him to T.O. Hypothetically, if Domi was a Leaf and only scored in 4 games a year it would be the games against the Habs. It could easily bite the Habs in the ass big time and make the Habs a perennial wildcard team at best if they lost 3-4 games to the Leafs every year. Same goes with any other team in the Habs division. It would not be smart to risk that chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said: I'm not 100% sold on CJ but I'm not suggesting that he should be fired, but in the event that his health doesnt allow him to continue it will be an issue of who to replace him with. I would not consider KM at all. I question if KM should be the AC and theres no way I would suggest promoting him. I often agree with you say but a big oh hell no to trading Domi to the Leafs. That is potentially an absolutely terrible idea. If the Leafs were the only team in the NHL that would take Domi I would probably sign him long term with the intention of sending him to the AHL to rot forever before I'd trade him to T.O. Hypothetically, if Domi was a Leaf and only scored in 4 games a year it would be the games against the Habs. It could easily bite the Habs in the ass big time and make the Habs a perennial wildcard team at best if they lost 3-4 games to the Leafs every year. Same goes with any other team in the Habs division. It would not be smart to risk that chance. I wouldn’t trade Gallagher or Price to the leafs for the reason you mentioned, but while I’m not a big Nylander fan, I like him a lot better than Domi. I think they may overpay for a guy in the hope they bring in a guy who wants to win in the city he grow up in. Domi is not the guy I’d be worried about burning us, as long as we win the deal. Where it bites us in the ass is when we lose the deal like the tucker deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 If CJ decides not to come back... Bouchard is the guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, Commandant said: If CJ decides not to come back... Bouchard is the guy Quite possibly ... but I wonder if Joel isn't smart enough to want to follow the management stream rather than coaching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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