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REV-G

Jonathan Drouin

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At the end of the series with Pittsburgh in my mind Drouin was a total mess and a total loss. He didn't seem to be able to generate anything, kept losing puck battles and to me was almost totally ineffective, invisible except for his mistakes. 

 

I don't know what happened, maybe Suzuki happened, but in the Philly series I saw the first glimpse of his talent begin to emerge. In particular his vision and two passes to Suzuki who burried them seemed elite to me. HIs speed is undeniable and from I read each time a player gets put on his line they say they love playing with Drouin because of his amazing talent. Obviously they see it and enjoy playing with him. Just in these recent games both Domi and Suzuki said how excited they were to be able to play with Drouin. 

 

I guess for me, the conclusion is that he has great talent, but he has to be hungry and put in the work to come to the next camp in fabulous shape and ready to go. But he needs to play with talented players like Suzuki who know where to go and be and maybe, just maybe, we're seeing the beginning of what happened with Guy Lafleur after a few years....the emergence of a truly talented played who is ready to blossom! Surely it has to be his time after his years and experience in the league. 

 

We will see but if he does then suddenly with the emergence of Suzuki, KK, Evans and even Kulak, with Romanov coming, and with perhaps Danault having to move further down the lineup we can see some real hope before Price and Weber get too old.

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, REV-G said:

At the end of the series with Pittsburgh in my mind Drouin was a total mess and a total loss. He didn't seem to be able to generate anything, kept losing puck battles and to me was almost totally ineffective, invisible except for his mistakes. 

 

I don't know what happened, maybe Suzuki happened, but in the Philly series I saw the first glimpse of his talent begin to emerge. In particular his vision and two passes to Suzuki who burried them seemed elite to me. HIs speed is undeniable and from I read each time a player gets put on his line they say they love playing with Drouin because of his amazing talent. Obviously they see it and enjoy playing with him. Just in these recent games both Domi and Suzuki said how excited they were to be able to play with Drouin. 

 

I guess for me, the conclusion is that he has great talent, but he has to be hungry and put in the work to come to the next camp in fabulous shape and ready to go. But he needs to play with talented players like Suzuki who know where to go and be and maybe, just maybe, we're seeing the beginning of what happened with Guy Lafleur after a few years....the emergence of a truly talented played who is ready to blossom! Surely it has to be his time after his years and experience in the league. 

 

We will see but if he does then suddenly with the emergence of Suzuki, KK, Evans and even Kulak, with Romanov coming, and with perhaps Danault having to move further down the lineup we can see some real hope before Price and Weber get too old.

 

Drouin has tons of talent ... but 20/21 will be his seventh season in the league and I think he now is what he is ... a streaky 20-25 goal scorer who  disappears too frequently ... put Gallagher's "heart" in Jonathan and the Habs would have a 40+ goal scorer (IMO) ... as far as I am concerned, all the wingers are trade bait this summer in a package(s) to get a high-end winger, or two

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I think previous post is correct that after this many seasons we know what Drouin is and is not.

 

To expect some late blooming is unrealistic at this point, he is a veteran player now.

 

Kind of funny to think management originally hoped he would fill the void at center seeing as he can’t even be relied upon on wing.

 

I’ve no use for him as his “elite” passing is not much better than league average and he’s too pricey for his infrequent effort and too often lack of production.

Hopefully some sucker team thinks there is more to be seen from him but he is exactly what we’ve seen. Talent without the drive to compete consistently shift in shift out, night in night out.

 

That attitude doesn’t appear overnight and if he has not learned that yet, it’s too late for him.

Get rid of him ASAP, no room for floaters and he is not that skilled to get by without effort.

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15 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Drouin has tons of talent ... but 20/21 will be his seventh season in the league and I think he now is what he is ... a streaky 20-25 goal scorer who  disappears too frequently ... put Gallagher's "heart" in Jonathan and the Habs would have a 40+ goal scorer (IMO) ... as far as I am concerned, all the wingers are trade bait this summer in a package(s) to get a high-end winger, or two

 

Yep. Nobody disputes his talent. But he is what he is at this point. He is part of a long line of players who had the tools but no toolbox. Like Galchenyuk or Kostitsyn, he is a #6 FW who occasionally looks great but is a no-show most of the time. And while I think he will stick around longer than those guys, who eventually slipped out of the #6 FW slot in the NHL, he will probably never be more than that.

 

Remember - he was acquired to be our #1C! ROFLMAO

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48 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep. Nobody disputes his talent. But he is what he is at this point. He is part of a long line of players who had the tools but no toolbox. Like Galchenyuk or Kostitsyn, he is a #6 FW who occasionally looks great but is a no-show most of the time. And while I think he will stick around longer than those guys, who eventually slipped out of the #6 FW slot in the NHL, he will probably never be more than that.

 

Remember - he was acquired to be our #1C! ROFLMAO

 

Think Drouin will have a better career than Galchenyuk or Kots ... just not the career we had hoped for

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Yep. Nobody disputes his talent. But he is what he is at this point. He is part of a long line of players who had the tools but no toolbox.

 

What I wonder is whether he might be able to perform (more) consistently if playing with right linemates, ones that have some extra toolboxes? It's a very small sample size, but he really looked much better when playing alongside Suzuki and Armia. I don't think it's just the skill level, either, it's the level of energy and effort that the two put in. But admittedly that's just my speculation.

 

If we could upgrade Drouin, great, but if we have to give him away ... maybe it's worth one more shot to see whether it's possible for him to play (more) consistently at a higher level.

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58 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Think Drouin will have a better career than Galchenyuk or Kots ... just not the career we had hoped for

 

Well, that's kind of what I said - that I expect Drouin to have a longer career than those guys, and don't anticipate him crapping out of the league the way Kosty did and Galy appears to be on the edge of doing.

 

9 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

What I wonder is whether he might be able to perform (more) consistently if playing with right linemates, ones that have some extra toolboxes? It's a very small sample size, but he really looked much better when playing alongside Suzuki and Armia. I don't think it's just the skill level, either, it's the level of energy and effort that the two put in. But admittedly that's just my speculation.

 

If we could upgrade Drouin, great, but if we have to give him away ... maybe it's worth one more shot to see whether it's possible for him to play (more) consistently at a higher level.

 

Hey, anything is possible. Playing with good linemates helps any player. That said, the cynical part of me reads your post and thinks, "yep, that's how it works with guys like Drouin - people always think that if somehow we can just get the all the stars to align, he will take off..." Players like him make entire careers out of that delusion.

 

I think the safe play with him is to accept that he is what he's been his whole NHL career.

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12 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Hey, anything is possible. Playing with good linemates helps any player. That said, the cynical part of me reads your post and thinks, "yep, that's how it works with guys like Drouin - people always think that if somehow we can just get the all the stars to align, he will take off..." Players like him make entire careers out of that delusion.

 

I think the safe play with him is to accept that he is what he's been his whole NHL career.

 

I have no expectations of him being elite. Just hope of him being able to be more consistent: raising his performance floor to be closer to the ceiling; today the two are far apart. Performing consistently somewhere near his ceiling would make him a key piece for us. Can the right linemates keep him closer to that ceiling?

 

If there are good alternatives available to us, though, I'm very much open to that.

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Will Suzuki be for Drouin what Desharnais was for Pacioretty?

 

Despite Drouin being identified as a floater and soft skilled player (which Max was also criticized for); maybe Suzuki (which is much more lalented than Desharnais) can turn this duo into a to top-line combination?

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9 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Will Suzuki be for Drouin what Desharnais was for Pacioretty?

 

Despite Drouin being identified as a floater and soft skilled player (which Max was also criticized for); maybe Suzuki (which is much more lalented than Desharnais) can turn this duo into a to top-line combination?

 

I thought Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Armia actually looked good in the post-season, with Drouin hustling to keep up with the work ethic of the two Finns.

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22 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Will Suzuki be for Drouin what Desharnais was for Pacioretty?

 

Despite Drouin being identified as a floater and soft skilled player (which Max was also criticized for); maybe Suzuki (which is much more lalented than Desharnais) can turn this duo into a to top-line combination?

 

Whether he plays with KK or Suzuki the line needs a digger/physical RW to give the talent more freedom

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6 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Whether he plays with KK or Suzuki the line needs a digger/physical RW to give the talent more freedom

 

Armia. And Kotkaniemi is no pushover, either, now.

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23 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

I thought Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Armia actually looked good in the post-season, with Drouin hustling to keep up with the work ethic of the two Finns.

 

They did look good, but I was focusing more on the Drouin-Suzuki duo and how they remind me of Patches-DD

 

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12 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Whether he plays with KK or Suzuki the line needs a digger/physical RW to give the talent more freedom

 

Agree, and that there is a need for a "mythical big scoring RW".

 

But on this thread about Drouin, I am wondering if Suzuki will bring Drouin to the point-production level we expected of him when we traded our best D prospect to get him.

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20 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

Agree, and that there is a need for a "mythical big scoring RW".

 

But on this thread about Drouin, I am wondering if Suzuki will bring Drouin to the point-production level we expected of him when we traded our best D prospect to get him.

 

Suzuki spoke well of their duo-ocity in a recent call with the media ... still think they need a specific type of player to finish the line ... 

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Will Suzuki be for Drouin what Desharnais was for Pacioretty?

 

Despite Drouin being identified as a floater and soft skilled player (which Max was also criticized for); maybe Suzuki (which is much more lalented than Desharnais) can turn this duo into a to top-line combination?

 

Why on earth would you saddle Suzuki, who seems like he might have #1C potential, with a winger who is NOT a first-liner by any stretch of the imagination?  If this happens, it's only because our GM has falied YET AGAIN to get the legitimate top line scoring winger this team desperately needs.

 

P.S.   Just watched Sergachev score, and I have to say it....the more I watch Sergachev play, the worse the trade looks.  MB straight-up got screwed.

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11 hours ago, sbhatt said:

 

Why on earth would you saddle Suzuki, who seems like he might have #1C potential, with a winger who is NOT a first-liner by any stretch of the imagination?  If this happens, it's only because our GM has falied YET AGAIN to get the legitimate top line scoring winger this team desperately needs.

 

P.S.   Just watched Sergachev score, and I have to say it....the more I watch Sergachev play, the worse the trade looks.  MB straight-up got screwed.


After thinking on it a second, I see this point. We’d be jeopardizing Suzuki’s development by expecting him to succeed with a consistently inconsistent winger in Drouin.
Suzuki and KK should be surrounded with skill, and consistent professionalism, effort.

 

I honestly do not understand these posts about how Drouin can excel “if this or that”, when the proof is already there. 

He is not a prospect, he is a 7-ish year veteran, and the only stable trend is that he disappears for too long far too frequently.

I thought he was going to rise to his talent level potential when coming to Mtl and said all of the right things, Which I believe he believes, so I don’t think it is anything conscious on his part, as much as ingrained behaviour. He calculates his odds of success on any given play and generally only pushes himself when the odds are favourable (we’ve seen times when he proves this theory wrong and damn he is a presence, but it rarely lasts longer than a few games).

The exact opposite of Gallagher (this is closest I have ever come to quantifying the logic of “heart”), who gives 100% regardless of the odds he will come out on top.
IMO The calculated expenditure of energy used to work for elite players, but the NHL is far too fast, overall skill level too high now as compared to yesteryears.  Without 100% compete level 100% of time, you will not have consistent success.    Perhaps early age success hampers this development, maybe it is genetic.

I think we all do it, but some people place more weight on it whether conscious or not. 

I see this trait in Domi as well, which is why I am not a fan. Players like this are valuing individual reward more than the collective goal, but again I think it is subconscious.

And also just having fun speculating, I’d far rather see these players (especially Drouin) have success with the Habs.

The Sergachev trade does look worse and worse as time goes by though.  Hard not to call that one a loss.

 

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Drouin led the team in scoring in the playoffs and showed great chemistry with Suzuki.  Why wouldnt you want to play the two together, at least to start.

 

If it doesnt work, split them.  But the way they finished the season you have to start with Drouin, Suzuki and Armia.

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30 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Drouin led the team in scoring in the playoffs and showed great chemistry with Suzuki.  Why wouldnt you want to play the two together, at least to start.

 

If it doesnt work, split them.  But the way they finished the season you have to start with Drouin, Suzuki and Armia.

I agree you start the Drouin with Suzuki. But I’d put them with Gallagher.

I think you pick up one elite winger and one more good winger for KK. Alternatively, pick up one elite winger for KK and add Armia to that line.  My preference would be to put the two fins with Danault.

the last line is a kid line with Byron. Evans centres line and if the Trump supporter shows up with his head screwed in right and plays well in training camp, you give Poehling a chance, otherwise if there is an AHL, he plays in Lavel.

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16 hours ago, tomh009 said:

... And Kotkaniemi is no pushover, either, now.

Agreed ... but don't want him saddled with being the primary "dirty work" guy

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5 hours ago, Commandant said:

Drouin led the team in scoring in the playoffs and showed great chemistry with Suzuki.  Why wouldnt you want to play the two together, at least to start.

 

If it doesnt work, split them.  But the way they finished the season you have to start with Drouin, Suzuki and Armia.

 

That is why I posted that Drouin reminds me of early Pacioretty. My hope is that MB finds a RW that is more consistent than Armia, let's call him "Pedro", that gives the Habs:

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Suzuki-"Pedro"

 

As a one-two punch line. with KK-Armia developing consistency in their game on the third line.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

That is why I posted that Drouin reminds me of early Pacioretty. My hope is that MB finds a RW that is more consistent than Armia, let's call him "Pedro", that gives the Habs:

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Suzuki-"Pedro"

 

As a one-two punch line. with KK-Armia developing consistency in their game on the third line.

Early Pactioretty was a 30 goal scorer from age 23 onwards. Before that, he was misused as a 4th liner by Martin and when he was sent down to Hamilton, said he’d rather play 1st line minutes there than be a grunt in Montreal. I don’t blame him. He was one of the most consistent 30 goal scorers in the league.  He had his cold spells, but that’s why he was a consistent 30-39 goal scorer, rather than a 50-60 goal scorer. It’s insulting to Max to have Drouin compared to him.

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4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Early Pactioretty was a 30 goal scorer from age 23 onwards. Before that, he was misused as a 4th liner by Martin and when he was sent down to Hamilton, said he’d rather play 1st line minutes there than be a grunt in Montreal. I don’t blame him. He was one of the most consistent 30 goal scorers in the league.  He had his cold spells, but that’s why he was a consistent 30-39 goal scorer, rather than a 50-60 goal scorer. It’s insulting to Max to have Drouin compared to him.

 

Agreed. MaxPac was consistency itself from his 2nd season onward. He also had a ton of commitment and work ethic.

 

Drouin is like Richer II, minus the two 50-goal seasons.

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Agreed. MaxPac was consistency itself from his 2nd season onward. He also had a ton of commitment and work ethic.

 

Drouin is like Richer II, minus the two 50-goal seasons.

You know I never appreciated richer.  I saw this big guy, with a rocket of a shot and speed and skill one night looking like he could be the heir to Guy, and than we saw Stephanie for a few nights worried about the hair.  Little did I know we would have Drouin who is 100 times more petulant and inconsistent and has accomplished 30% of what Richer did.  Richer brought us Captain Kirk. there was a bit of an outcry of trading away a Quebecer for a Kingston boy, but I’m glad we made the move!
 

Here’s hoping Drouin brings back as good of a return - god knows we gave up an awful lot for that bum.

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Why are we pretending 50 goals in the 80s is the same as 50 goals today?

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