Trade Trade: Jake Allen acquired for a 3rd-round pick

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Basic coaching errors in scratching him and in splitting up a Kulak-Petry pair, doesn't change the fact that he was performing. 

i recall Kulak playing very well with Weber as well when he first came over as well and then suddenly he was moved down the line up and even scratched by CJ.

 

As for Allen, its not like they were dumping Karl Alzner or Patrick Marleau... Jake Allen is a high quality goalie. It's also Washington's 3rd rounder we gave up for Allen, which is a few picks from a 4th rounder anyways. Basically Kovalchuk (a free asset) got us Allen for this year. Why are we complaining? We also haven't been up against the CAP for years... Who cares

[bbp]

I'm just confused about the Demchenko signing.

[GHT120]

24 minutes ago, bbp said:

I'm just confused about the Demchenko signing.

 

At the time they obviously couldn't know what they would be able to do for 20/21 ... and they get to see Demchenko in Laval for a year and could, if they want, re-sign him as a 21/22 backup or "expansion goalie" ... I am guessing that even back then they didn't see much of a future for Lindgren or McNiven other than as a possible "expansion goalie".

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

Or maybe Allen was brought in as a precursor to an even bigger deal...

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

i recall Kulak playing very well with Weber as well when he first came over as well and then suddenly he was moved down the line up and even scratched by CJ.

 

As for Allen, its not like they were dumping Karl Alzner or Patrick Marleau... Jake Allen is a high quality goalie. It's also Washington's 3rd rounder we gave up for Allen, which is a few picks from a 4th rounder anyways. Basically Kovalchuk (a free asset) got us Allen for this year. Why are we complaining? We also haven't been up against the CAP for years... Who cares

Good point . I am really happy with Allen’s trade

id all we do is sign Kovalchuk to play 3rd line with KK, I would be mildly satisfied

 

getting a power forward to play with Suzuki would be better. Specially if we keep Danault’s line and put Armia with KK

 

anyrjing beyond that is cherry on the top

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

Or maybe Allen was brought in as a precursor to an even bigger deal...

I’m all for moving Price for the right return and if we have at least top 15 type goalie.  Allan has not been able to do that as a starter.

 

Given his salary and the cap situation I think we’d get a mixed bag of bottom 6 players and like in the Roy trade and I don’t see Allen being much different than Thibault - a kid who was highly thought if, but never lived up to the projections of being an elite starter.  

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

i recall Kulak playing very well with Weber as well when he first came over as well and then suddenly he was moved down the line up and even scratched by CJ.

 

As for Allen, its not like they were dumping Karl Alzner or Patrick Marleau... Jake Allen is a high quality goalie. It's also Washington's 3rd rounder we gave up for Allen, which is a few picks from a 4th rounder anyways. Basically Kovalchuk (a free asset) got us Allen for this year. Why are we complaining? We also haven't been up against the CAP for years... Who cares

I just think given the blues cap situation and how much Allen is making, there was an opportunity to try and get a guy like Dunn, even if we had to give up a 2nd and a 3rd.  They are a team in cap trouble and we should be taking advantage of that.

 

heck. After they got knocked out one of the comments by analysts was they’d have a hard time moving Allan’s contract.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

At the time they obviously couldn't know what they would be able to do for 20/21 ... and they get to see Demchenko in Laval for a year and could, if they want, re-sign him as a 21/22 backup or "expansion goalie" ... I am guessing that even back then they didn't see much of a future for Lindgren or McNiven other than as a possible "expansion goalie".

 

Demchenko can't be an expansion goalie as he will only have one year in the AHL/NHL. 

[bbp]

8 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Demchenko can't be an expansion goalie as he will only have one year in the AHL/NHL. 

So will he stay overseas or just take games from Primeau in the AHL?

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

if he resigns to an nhl contract before the expansion deadline then yes he could be counted... know?

[Commandant]

47 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

if he resigns to an nhl contract before the expansion deadline then yes he could be counted... know?

No

Players with 2 years or less of pro hockey (nhl/ahl) are not eligible to be drafted.

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, bbp said:

So will he stay overseas or just take games from Primeau in the AHL?

 

I expect lindgren to be a throw in on a trade and Primeau/Demchenko to be the AHL goalies.

[DON]

10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I just think given the blues cap situation and how much Allen is making, there was an opportunity to try and get a guy like Dunn, even if we had to give up a 2nd and a 3rd.  They are a team in cap trouble and we should be taking advantage of that.

 

heck. After they got knocked out one of the comments by analysts was they’d have a hard time moving Allan’s contract.

Eric Engels@EricEngelsSeptember 2, 2020, 3:06 PM

MONTREAL — You’d need the strongest magnifying glass to find the downside of this deal. 

Engels dont know 29 very well do he.

[tomh009]

18 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Our D isn't close to as good as the Blues.

 

I'm not saying our D is better or even equal. But given that Scandella was actually getting more ice time in St Louis than in Montreal, maybe the difference is not so huge.

[GHT120]

5 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

if he resigns to an nhl contract before the expansion deadline then yes he could be counted... know?

 

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

No

Players with 2 years or less of pro hockey (nhl/ahl) are not eligible to be drafted.

 

Wonder whether his status as a 27 yr-old UFA next "July 1st" would impact that ... I expect the all first- and second-year NHL players, and all unsigned draft choices, will be exempt from selection (and will not be counted toward protection limits was intended to cover ELC players.

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

 

Wonder whether his status as a 27 yr-old UFA next "July 1st" would impact that ... I expect the all first- and second-year NHL players, and all unsigned draft choices, will be exempt from selection (and will not be counted toward protection limits was intended to cover ELC players.

 

It didn't for players in the last expansion draft and this will be the same rules.

[dlbalr]

21 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I just think given the blues cap situation and how much Allen is making, there was an opportunity to try and get a guy like Dunn, even if we had to give up a 2nd and a 3rd.  They are a team in cap trouble and we should be taking advantage of that.

 

heck. After they got knocked out one of the comments by analysts was they’d have a hard time moving Allan’s contract.

 

I'm sure Bergevin asked about trying to get another asset or doing something to get a piece for below market value.  GM's do try to ask for more but it doesn't mean they'll get it and just because they didn't doesn't mean it's automatically assumed that they didn't try.  But this was not a negative value contract, not when guys like Khudobin have a shot at getting $4M-plus on the open market.  Whichever analyst thought they'd have a hard time getting out of that contract clearly wasn't paying attention to how Allen played this season.

 

Things could have been different had Montreal waited this out and tried to leverage the Pietrangelo situation closer to the start of free agency.  Maybe they give up less or get another piece attached.  But then there's a risk of not getting him and having to get a lesser goalie in free agency or trade for someone else they didn't like as much.  For a late third-round pick, they avoid the risk.  It's the safe move and the smart one.  In the meantime, if they want Dunn (and I don't think they do), they can still try to wait St. Louis out and see if the cap situation forces their hand for a below-market return closer to October 9th or whatever date free agency winds up starting depending on what happens over the next few weeks.

[Blazer]

On 9/3/2020 at 7:25 AM, Commandant said:

 

I expect lindgren to be a throw in on a trade and Primeau/Demchenko to be the AHL goalies.

That makes sense.

[Sir_Boagalott]

On 9/2/2020 at 10:43 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

I just think given the blues cap situation and how much Allen is making, there was an opportunity to try and get a guy like Dunn, even if we had to give up a 2nd and a 3rd.  They are a team in cap trouble and we should be taking advantage of that.

 

heck. After they got knocked out one of the comments by analysts was they’d have a hard time moving Allan’s contract.

 

I agree.  Thats 1 of my reasons for why I say MB fleeced Vegas in the MaxPacc trade MB even though it worked out for good for both teams. 

 

In negotiations there is often a clear position of power and in the MaxPacc trade Vegas was in that position.  ex:  when a team wants to get rid of a player the team taking the player off the team is in the power position so it is somewhat surprising when a team gives up a lot for a player that the other team wants to or has to dump. 

 

This trade is a similar situation where the Blues were the 1's that needed to dump a player so the Habs sorta paid a high price and did the Blues a huge favour by solving their cap issue. 

 

However, it has been pointed out that the pic is Wash 3rd for Kovalchuk so when viewed in that perspective it is essentially a free pickup, even though his salary is sorta high for a backup. 

[DON]

11 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

even though his salary is sorta high for a backup. 

Which is kinda irrelevant, as his 1 yr with team, they have ton of caproom. And a career 2.49 - 0.913 with good season last year, looks pretty good vs what Bergevin has been plugging in for a back up.

[dlbalr]

A comment from Blues GM Doug Armstrong from Sportsnet:

 

Quote

“Some of the teams I talked to like Jake as a goaltender but didn’t want to give any assets at this time for that,” said Armstrong, preferring to grab a third-round pick and not retain any salary ($4.35 million) while he could. “For us, one in the hand was better than two in the bush.”

 

That basically takes any idea of the Habs failing to leverage an extra asset out of the Blues off the table.  There were teams interested in just absorbing the contract as it was so they weren't going to have to give up anything extra to do it. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

21 hours ago, dlbalr said:

A comment from Blues GM Doug Armstrong from Sportsnet:

 

 

That basically takes any idea of the Habs failing to leverage an extra asset out of the Blues off the table.  There were teams interested in just absorbing the contract as it was so they weren't going to have to give up anything extra to do it. 

 

It's a smart trade. Let's move on 😉

[DON]

Allen given extra 2 years @ $2.8m/yr