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Domi for Anderson

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Not a fan of the trade, Hope I'm wrong. 

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13 minutes ago, illWill said:

I swear we could have shipped Domi off for McDavid with Edmonton retaining salary and the same salty people would be complaining that it wasn't enough. 

 

Let's say it was an overpayment, is our team better is the only question that matters. 


I think the team is better, but that’s NOT the only question. Asset management matters.

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11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:


I think the team is better, but that’s NOT the only question. Asset management matters.

 

Can you further explain how a trade that makes the team better is a negative transaction? 

 

Keep in mind I've read here how David Poile is a genius for trading Seth Jones for Ryan Johanssen was brilliant because he traded from a position of strength. 

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1 minute ago, illWill said:

 

Can you further explain how a trade that makes the team better is a negative transaction? 

Because people look at stats and Domi has the better stats so there for we lost the trade.

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So, how is Galchenyuk and a third in 2020 for Anderson a bad trade?

 

I know we had Domi for a couple of years and he showed a lot of potential, but that was a pleasant surprise.

 

If we were trading 2017-2018 Galchenyuk for 2017-2018 Anderson ?

 

I think that Domi allowed the Habs to get the player they needed this year, someone they probably wouldn't have gotten for Chucky (in my opinion).

 

I like the trade because it addresses a team need

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Don't let the 2019-20 numbers fool you on Anderson. We're not just getting another Armia.  He was never fully healthy this year before finally going out for the year after his fight with Borowiecki. It's not unreasonable to think he can be a 30-30 guy in this league, which he was well on his way to becoming before an injury plagued season.

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23 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Can you further explain how a trade that makes the team better is a negative transaction? 

 

Keep in mind I've read here how David Poile is a genius for trading Seth Jones for Ryan Johanssen was brilliant because he traded from a position of strength. 

 

OK, so let's imagine he had traded Domi plus out 1st overall pick plus every other pick this year, and every other pick next year and the year after, for Anderson.

 

Since by your logic this "makes the team better" next year, it is a HUGE WIN for Bergevin.🙄

 

Like I said: asset management matters.

 

3 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

So, how is Galchenyuk and a third in 2020 for Anderson a bad trade?

 

 

 

It's not a bad trade at all. But for better or worse, that's not the trade we are discussing. 🙄

 

MB gets full marks for dumping Galy in return for Domi. A clear win. But we don't then get to praise him for trading Domi in a deal that is not a clear win, and pretend that it is, because Domi actually "is" Galchenyuk.

 

What you can argue is that from an overall asset management perspective, losing the 3rd doesn't hurt so much because the original Domi-Galy deal was so lopsided. But that still doesn't make the waste of a 3rd round pick defensible in itself. It's not as though the Habs are some powerhouse that can cavalierly toss picks around. The overpay on this deal takes some of the lustre off the original fleecing of Philly.

 

All that being said - I'm not so worked up about the overpay as to be in a blind rage about it. I can live with the deal and think it helps us now. I'd have preferred not to throw in the 3rd, that's all.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

It's not a bad trade at all. But for better or worse, that's not the trade we are discussing. 🙄

 

MB gets full marks for dumping Galy in return for Domi. A clear win. But we don't then get to praise him for trading Domi in a deal that is not a clear win, and pretend that it is, because Domi actually "is" Galchenyuk.

 

What you can argue is that from an overall asset management perspective, losing the 3rd doesn't hurt so much because the original Domi-Galy deal was so lopsided. But that still doesn't make the waste of a 3rd round pick defensible in itself. It's not as though the Habs are some powerhouse that can cavalierly toss picks around. The overpay on this deal takes some of the lustre off the original fleecing of Philly.

 

All that being said - I'm not so worked up about the overpay as to be in a blind rage about it. I can live with the deal and think it helps us now. I'd have preferred not to throw in the 3rd, that's all.

 

 

 

Tim Bozon, Connor Crisp, Sven Andrighetto, Lernout, Lukas Vejdemo, Will Bitten, Scott Walford, Cale Fleury, Hillis, Harris.

 

I am not getting worked up for a lost Habs 3rd draft pick, they have not had too many home runs

 

Norlinder seems like he may buck the trend

 

Edited by alfredoh2009
added Norlinder

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8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

OK, so let's imagine he had traded Domi plus out 1st overall pick plus every other pick this year, and every other pick next year and the year after, for Anderson.

 

Since by your logic this "makes the team better" next year, it is a HUGE WIN for Bergevin.🙄

 

Like I said: asset management matters.

 

 

Key words in that rebuttle was "next year". When did I ever say only for next year? Since you clearly agreed it makes our team better, why stop at next year? Why are we trading infinite draft picks in your hypothetical situation to try to prove a point? Asset management does not matter when improving our team when we have an abundance of assets. I can throw out whacky scenarios as well, does it matter to Bill Gates if he spends $100 on a coffee if it helps him secure a million dollar deal that day? Tell me more about asset management 

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Anyone think that Bergevin made this trade because he had contract talks with Domi and realized they were too far appart to come to an agreement and just decided to trade him for Anderson? IN other words, was willing to get a little less for Domi knowing he wouldn't be able to sign him long term...

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Just now, Habsfan said:

Anyone think that Bergevin made this trade because he had contract talks with Domi and realized they were too far appart to come to an agreement and just decided to trade him for Anderson? IN other words, was willing to get a little less for Domi knowing he wouldn't be able to sign him long term...

 

Yes of course that was a factor, may have been others as well. No way we can pay a 4th line center (yes i know he isn't) a contract that starts with a 5 or or 6 for multiple years. 

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1 minute ago, Habsfan said:

Anyone think that Bergevin made this trade because he had contract talks with Domi and realized they were too far appart to come to an agreement and just decided to trade him for Anderson? IN other words, was willing to get a little less for Domi knowing he wouldn't be able to sign him long term...

Its possible ... but more importantly I think the Habs just saw no room at centre for a player who believes he is a centre, wants to play there and looked unhappy when he was moved to the wing last season.

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23 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

Key words in that rebuttle was "next year". When did I ever say only for next year? Since you clearly agreed it makes our team better, why stop at next year? Why are we trading infinite draft picks in your hypothetical situation to try to prove a point? Asset management does not matter when improving our team when we have an abundance of assets. I can throw out whacky scenarios as well, does it matter to Bill Gates if he spends $100 on a coffee if it helps him secure a million dollar deal that day? Tell me more about asset management 

 

The point is a simple one. Throwing away draft picks is stupid. That is what my reductio ad absurdum was trying to illustrate. You claimed the trade "makes the team better" and nothing else matters. And my rebuttal illustrates the point that throwing away draft picks does matter.

 

I don't know why you are doggedly denying this simple principle. It's common sense.

 

Now, is a lost 3rd rounder the end of the world? Of course not. But I suspect that if Bergevin had traded Anderson for Domi and a 3rd, you would be cackling at the unsurpassed transcendent genius of our brilliant GM who just fleeced Columbus. Because at the heart of your position seems to be axiomatic reasoning: ANYTHING BERGEVIN DOES IS AWESOME.

 

(And for the record: I'm happy with trading Domi for Anderson, I just think the 3rd is a moderate overpay).

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8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

(And for the record: I'm happy with trading Domi for Anderson, I just think the 3rd is a moderate overpay).

 

It may be a moderate overpay, yes. But it may have been necessary to get a deal done.

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9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

 

(And for the record: I'm happy with trading Domi for Anderson, I just think the 3rd is a moderate overpay).

 

I'll ignore all the other nonsense and agree on this point, as I think Domi for Anderson straight up is an overpay. Great for the team though 

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Not a fan of the trade, Hope I'm wrong. 

 

That's how I feel,  hope i am wrong. Perhaps guys in the dressing room feel different. It's always a different view looking from the outside. I liked Max, he likely had some maturing to do but he wanted to be in Montreal. 

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2 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

That's how I feel,  hope i am wrong. Perhaps guys in the dressing room feel different. It's always a different view looking from the outside. I liked Max, he likely had some maturing to do but he wanted to be in Montreal. 

 

There has been talk that was the case ... of course the evaluation of the trade all depends on whether you believe he is a 70 points/82 games player (18/19) or the 50 poi9nt player from the rest of his career ... all a matter of opinion

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52 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

(And for the record: I'm happy with trading Domi for Anderson, I just think the 3rd is a moderate overpay).

 

Not picking particularly on the Cucumber, just had to choose a post to quote.

 

In any case, this is how Arpon Basu sees the need for that 3rd:

Quote

So when evaluating why the Canadiens needed to add a third-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft when they traded Max Domi to the Columbus Blue Jackets for hulking forward Josh Anderson, this law is important to keep in mind.

 

Yes, the Blue Jackets received the centre and the Canadiens the winger, which would suggest Domi should be the player who was more in demand. But players like Anderson are exceedingly rare in the NHL. He is 6-foot-3, 222 pounds, he skates exceptionally well for a man of that size, and he has scoring touch.

 

That combination is in high demand around the NHL, which put Columbus general manager Jarmo Kekalainen in the driver’s seat here and left Marc Bergevin with little choice but to throw in the third-round pick in order to complete the deal.

 

 

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We gave up a player with 70 point potential for one with 40 point potential.  Coming off a major injury?  And threw in a decent pick?  At worst, this could be a Ribeiro - Niinima situation.  

 

Gonna miss Max.

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7 hours ago, illWill said:

Who cares about the 3rd round pick that was thrown in, does that make or break the deal? 

 

This trade was about trading Domi who had no place in the lineup, for a player with a defined place in the lineup. And as far as contracts go, you have to assume both GMs know what it is going to take to resign each, and that Domi's cap hit will be higher. 

 

I am disappointed he wasn't a part of a package for a star player just like everyone else, but before everyone dumps on Bergevin as usual, do you not think he tried? 

 

I do feel bad for Domi, he seemed quite happy to be in Montreal. But that excitement sure did seem to tamper during the playoffs when he was on the 4th line. He was my favorite Hab two years ago and I wish him all the best 

Yeah who cares about 3rd round picks.  It’s irrelevant that the cup winning lightening drafted Point, Cirelli and Killorn all in the third round.

never mind that Domi’s only had one season under 40 points, while Anderson’s only had one season over.

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7 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

Does anyone believe that after this move and buying out Alzner, that we are not still big game hunting?

 

i still think we may be in on a big fish.

I don’t know why we’d buy out Alzner yet.  Keep him down in the AHL.  who knows you may get someone willing to take him to reach the floor when his salary drops. Or buy him out when there is less years left.

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6 hours ago, Trizzak said:

We gave up the younger player with more creativity and more offense, who plays the more valuable position, who was 2 seasons away from unrestricted free agency.

 

For what? A guy coming off of 1 goal in 24 games played, who plays the least valuable position, who is one season away from unrestricted free agency - while it is more than incredibly likely that he goes to arbitration (and listens to his new team explain why he isn't worth a lot of money after they gave up a lot of talent to get him), and he'll get a 1 year deal and walk knowing that there are a bunch of knuckle-dragging GMs waiting to overpay him because "GRRR BIG MAN SHOOT" is what doctors prescribe every single NHL GM in lieu of Viagra.

 

And we gave up a 3rd round pick for this privilege?

 

Even if everything goes right and Anderson rebounds to being a 40 point player, signs long term at a reasonable price, never misses a game, and retires a Hab after hoisting multiple Cups for them, why is Montreal giving up so much right now for that kind of high risk?

100% agree!  I don’t care if Anderson scores 30 goals - which I’m hoping he does.  I don’t get how you give up an extra asset for a guy whose stats are worse, has injury issues, his old team had a tough time negotiating with him and is he closer to free agency.  

Thia is like the classic Rwjean Houle trade.  Hey please take Patrick Roy for garbage AND I’ll through in Keane, or my coach doesn’t like Turgeon, if you give me  the bigger less skilled player, I’ll give you a good young centre prospect in Conroy for a your truculent bum Baron.

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6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, this gets to a point I asked in the Rumour thread and didn't get much uptake on: what is a reasonable return one-on-one for Max Domi? I posited an Armia-type player and that is exactly what we got, albeit one with (probably) more offensive chops than Armia. I'm still waiting for other suggestions.

 

As for the idea of packaging Domi to get a star-calibre player back, it's an appealing scenario, but also one that lends itself to wishful thinking. When people say Domi + 16th overall + prospect for a star W, they tend to judiciously leave out exactly which prospect they mean. Caulfield? Romanov? I'm not sure I'd throw in either of those guys in such a deal. If you mean (say) Juulsen, it is unlikely that package brings back an elite W. So the "package Domi" argument sounds a lot better in the abstract than it does when you start to talk with some granularity about the assets involved.

 

 

I agree that the 3rd was an overpay. That said, Domi is not exactly a blue-ship asset, and if Anderson is healthy, he doesn't seem like some gigantic risk. 20/40 seems realistic. I mean, jeez, before his injury he was getting this kind of write-up:  https://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/combining-size-skill-and-speed-blue-jackets-josh-anderson-is-the-type-of-player-every-team-covets No way do you get that guy back for a sub-par 2nd line C in Max Domi.

 

Clarkson also got similar write ups when the leafs backed up the brinks truck at his front door on Canada day.

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5 hours ago, illWill said:

I swear we could have shipped Domi off for McDavid with Edmonton retaining salary and the same salty people would be complaining that it wasn't enough. 

 

Let's say it was an overpayment, is our team better is the only question that matters. 

Yeah, that’s a real good analogy🙄

 

McDavid an overpayment fir Domi same thing as this trade.🙄

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3 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

There has been talk that was the case ... of course the evaluation of the trade all depends on whether you believe he is a 70 points/82 games player (18/19) or the 50 poi9nt player from the rest of his career ... all a matter of opinion

If you make deals just to get rid of a player you have the ribeiro situation, or the Roy situation.  you need to make sure you maximize value. There was no raise to make this deal.

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