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Domi for Anderson

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The problem is that, between Danault and Suzuki, Domi was "out" as a top-6 C. Even if KK crapped out, those other two guys would be ahead of him on the C depth chart. He clearly did not want to play with plumbers like Lehkonen and clearly did not want to be used on W.

 

This is what happens when you start to have legitimate depth at a position. It squeezes out guys who are one-dimensional or have other limitations in their game. And when those guys get squeezed out, you flip them to address other weaknesses.

 

The only problem with Domi's departure from my POV is that it leaves the team with exactly one C who has any significant NHL experience. That is not a tenable situation and will need to be rectified sooner or later (probably via a cheap 4th-line C pickup). But that was still not a reason to keep Domi, because Max by all accounts wanted to be used in a top-6 role. And that made no sense for this team.

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41 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

That’s where he was playing but that’s not where he stood in the lineup. ...

 

True ... don't know that anybody meant he is 4C quality of player ... but he would have been 4th on the Habs depth chart at centre ... and didn't want to play on the wing 

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9 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

True ... don't know that anybody meant he is 4C quality of player ... but he would have been 4th on the Habs depth chart at centre ... and didn't want to play on the wing 

 

Yeah. He certainly was 4C in the postseason, that's just a fact, it's where he played. He may have had reasons for that, or he might have played better next season, but there is still a logjam at C at this point in time. (When were we last able to say that about the Habs?)

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2 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:


And since we are discussing a trade, where was Anderson’s professionalism when he only amassed 4 points in 21 games last year despite facing injuries? Or, am I making the same mistake others are making about Domi? 

 

 

 

Thats an interesting point because both basically have similar stats where they had 1 great year but absent of that theres a similar big drop off in production.  ex:  Domi 28 g career high,  then 18 g & 17; Anderson 27 g career high, 17 & 19 g. 

 

A lot of people seem to suggest that Domi's 70pt career high was a fluke, but how do people know that Anderson's 47 pt season wasnt? 

 

Also, Domi didnt really make the Habs harder to play against, but Anderson is a much larger guy that hits a lot and fights too so he should improve the team by making them harder to play against. 

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As with any trade ... some will like ... some won't ... I like it ... but none of us will know for a couple of years at least if we are right ... somehow my gut tells me that this will be a trade the=at is the proverbial "good for both teams" as it fills needs.

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On 10/8/2020 at 5:06 PM, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Thats an interesting point because both basically have similar stats where they had 1 great year but absent of that theres a similar big drop off in production.  ex:  Domi 28 g career high,  then 18 g & 17; Anderson 27 g career high, 17 & 19 g. 

 

A lot of people seem to suggest that Domi's 70pt career high was a fluke, but how do people know that Anderson's 47 pt season wasnt? 

 

Also, Domi didnt really make the Habs harder to play against, but Anderson is a much larger guy that hits a lot and fights too so he should improve the team by making them harder to play against. 

 

One of these players is a much better playmaker.  But lets just ignore that, and only talk about goals. (Domi)

 

One player is more physical.  But we are only talking goals. (Anderson)

 

One player is faster and contributes a lot in transition.  But we are only talking goals. (Domi)

 

One player has better defensive zone ability. (Anderson)

 

Why

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

One of these players is a much better playmaker.  But lets just ignore that, and only talk about goals. (Domi)

 

One player is more physical.  But we are only talking goals. (Anderson)

 

One player is faster and contributes a lot in transition.  But we are only talking goals. (Domi)

 

One player has better defensive zone ability. (Anderson)

 

Why

Is domi that much faster? Anderson looks fast for a big man.

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Commandant, what is your assessment of Anderson anyway? It's been mentioned that you wanted the Habs to avoid him, but I for one would be interested in a more developed elaboration.

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7 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

One of these players is a much better playmaker.  But lets just ignore that, and only talk about goals. (Domi)

 

One player is more physical.  But we are only talking goals. (Anderson)

 

One player is faster and contributes a lot in transition.  But we are only talking goals. (Domi)

 

One player has better defensive zone ability. (Anderson)

 

Why

 

 

I mainly mentioned goals because the most common argument against Domi was that his highest goal season was a fluke, but nobody sees to say that with Anderson, when they both have very similar goal stats. 

 

You're absolutely correct, and I said that in another post that Domi didnt make the Habs harder to play against, but Anderson will, and in numerous ways.  Plus the Habs have other guys that are play makers, are fast and contribute in transition.  However, the Habs didnt have anybody with size that is defensive, hits a lot, can fight, and scores.  By picking up Anderson they definitely filled a need they had. 

 

Apparently the CBJ fans called Anderson Big Josh Anderson or Bang Bus - which made me laugh. 

 

I 2nd Chicoutami's question.

 

I did find out that Anderson has had issues with both of his shoulders, and I looked into the operation he had and that shoulder should be fine.  Most places that do those operations seem to say that theres a 90-95% of full recovery, and thats for the general public.  I'd imagine that a pro athlete would likely getting better treatment and rehab than the public has access to. 

 

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At the end of the day guys, Domi was just more of the same on this team, small, quick, fiesty, and skilled.

 

Anderson brings a dimension with him that only Armia has, with more potential for production, and quick on his feet for a big guy. 

 

You simply subtract something you have plenty of to fill a void in something you barely have any of. It's a roster building trade even more so than the player for player. We are finally getting to a point where we are fine tuning the personal, and shoring up needs, there's no point knit picking this to death. Did we need another small, fast, skilled, at center in the line up or did we need a big body who plays quick, drives the net, with a big shot and plays wing?

 

These are the years where we have to try to get this team from bubble to potential contender, and roster balance and holes need to be addressed.

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8 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Commandant, what is your assessment of Anderson anyway? It's been mentioned that you wanted the Habs to avoid him, but I for one would be interested in a more developed elaboration.

 

I'm worried about that shoulder and his style of play, especially when last season was a total write off for him. 

 

When he's played, he hasn't been bad... he can skate and he's big and goes to the net and can shoot.  His 27 goal season DID NOT come from playing with Panarin.  He was with Jenner and Foligno. 

So he's a bigger, more talented version of Andrew Shaw if he comes in and can play the way he did before. 

But he could also be David Clarkson or Milan Lucic (now)... the kind of guys who played that style and looked good and fell off a cliff.  

 

So he scares me, and 7 years scares the shit out of me. 

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was david clarkson ever really good though? The guy scored 30 goals once in NJ and leafs gave him a treasure chest. But he was really just an avg 12 goal scorer outside of that one season... he wasnt that big or fast but was willing to fight. Basically a 3rd/4th liner who caught fire in a single season.

 

Lucic was hands down superior to Clarkson (in fact not even comparable except for willingness to throw punches) and was able to put together a fine career thus far with multiple 20+ goal seasons and at least 40pts in more then half of the 13 seasons he's played, eclipsing 50pts 5 times and 60 twice. Lucic at 32 just cant skate with the kids in todays NHL anymore PLUS nobody wants to fight... 

 

Anderson's ability to skate I think will separate him from Lucic in his latter years... His shoulder definitely could be an issue moving forward due to his style of play. With that said, he still has much to prove to accomplish what Lucic did with Boston in particular.

 

 

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I’ve defended many a trade on here but there seems to be those who will always try to spin every move we make in positive fashion. Of course there are those who are always negative but I don’t bring them up here because I think this is a case where we clearly lost a trade. Especially when factoring in the 3rd rounder, which I personally couldn’t care less about, however it is an additional asset. 
 

Over the past two years, Domi was not just another small and quick forward, he was our second best point getter at .76 points per game. Those other small forwards that people are pairing him in with in romanticized fashion, hover around .60 points per game.

 

On the other hand, Josh Anderson was 12th on Columbus over the past two seasons at .47 points per game. 
 

In terms of penalty minutes, Max Domi led the Habs by a mile with 115 minutes, which is comparable to Pierre Luc Dubois’ 113 over the past two seasons whereas Josh Anderson had 77. Max Domi was at .75 penalty minutes per game whereas Anderson was at .71. While this is a terrible stat to mention in Domi’s favor, I think it’s clear that some of those minutes came as a result of dropping the gloves and so he actually did bring grit to the table.

 

I am looking forward to liking Anderson but Domi should have the better career. I am not overwhelmingly upset about the move but think about it in your head when you’re trying to justify a trade by saying we filled a need, regardless of what we gave up. That’s not how it should work. It’s not like it was impossible for Domi to be good on the Habs again. I would have liked Troy Brower a decade ago, but I wouldn’t have been happy trading T.J. Oshie to get him.

 

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Domi was best at centre.

There isnt a spot at centre.

Domi didnt like paying the wing.

Julien wasnt a fan...it seems (4th line in Aug)

Habs needed winger upgrade.

6'3" 220lb vs whatever Domi is, also played a big factor.

Wasnt a shock to anyone Domi was available

Wasnt a shock to anyone Domi was dealt.

7yrs shocked everyone though, but was cost of getting him to sign it seems.

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I can’t recall ever being impressed with Domi as a goal scoring threat, more of a playmaker imo. 
meanwhile a review of Anderson’s goals show a legit snipe of shot (snap shot from both wings and strong backhand). Given that I think the Habs have more playmakers than goal-scorers, I think he has a strong chance to thrive and contribute more than Domi could have. Domi carrying the puck through the neutral zone or entering the o-zone reminded me of watching Gomez do the same, it would get exciting for a moment and then  generally fizzle. The lack of shooting strength and skill is similar, takes away options, makes defending easy once identified. 
Anderson can beat  a goalie off the rush and in close.

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Domi;

19-20: 71gms 17:06/gm, 2.52shots/gm, #1 Hab forward in PP time; 0.59pts/gm, didnt miss 1 game

18-19: 82gms 17:23/gm, 2.47shots/gm, #1 Hab forward in PP time, 0.88pts/gm, didnt miss 1 game

What caused the big scoring difference (minor injuries?)? Did he just have his career year in 18/19?

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1 hour ago, hockeyrealist said:

I can’t recall ever being impressed with Domi as a goal scoring threat, more of a playmaker imo. 
meanwhile a review of Anderson’s goals show a legit snipe of shot (snap shot from both wings and strong backhand). Given that I think the Habs have more playmakers than goal-scorers, I think he has a strong chance to thrive and contribute more than Domi could have. Domi carrying the puck through the neutral zone or entering the o-zone reminded me of watching Gomez do the same, it would get exciting for a moment and then  generally fizzle. The lack of shooting strength and skill is similar, takes away options, makes defending easy once identified. 
Anderson can beat  a goalie off the rush and in close.

 

The year Max scored 28 goals he demonstrated a terrific wrist shot, certainly no lack of shooting strength. That was more goals than Anderson has ever scored. Max is also an excellent passer. Obviously there are some other deficiencies or the Habs wouldn't have made the trade.  Hopefully Anderson is a better fit as a scoring winger with size and grit is something the Habs  need. I am cautiously optimistic on this trade at best, hope it turns out. 

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14 minutes ago, DON said:

 

What caused the big scoring difference (minor injuries?)? Did he just have his career year in 18/19?

 

Sure looks like it.

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I know everyone has been talking about the bad year Max had last year (44 pts. in 71 games), certainly a drop off from the year before. Josh Anderson's best year was 47 pts in 82 games. I know everyone is excited that Josh is big and strong and brings grit and these are elements that Habs need on the wing but he has to stay healthy. I really hope it turns out but I am not convinced yet. 

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3 hours ago, DON said:

Domi was best at centre.

There isnt a spot at centre.

Domi didnt like paying the wing.

Julien wasnt a fan...it seems (4th line in Aug)

Habs needed winger upgrade.

6'3" 220lb vs whatever Domi is, also played a big factor.

Wasnt a shock to anyone Domi was available

Wasnt a shock to anyone Domi was dealt.

7yrs shocked everyone though, but was cost of getting him to sign it seems.

 

Centres are in high demand throughout the NHL and more valuable than wingers.  There is no reason to take a talent downgrade when trading a C for a W, even if you have too many Cs. 

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3 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I’ve defended many a trade on here but there seems to be those who will always try to spin every move we make in positive fashion. Of course there are those who are always negative but I don’t bring them up here because I think this is a case where we clearly lost a trade. Especially when factoring in the 3rd rounder, which I personally couldn’t care less about, however it is an additional asset. 
 

Over the past two years, Domi was not just another small and quick forward, he was our second best point getter at .76 points per game. Those other small forwards that people are pairing him in with in romanticized fashion, hover around .60 points per game.

 

On the other hand, Josh Anderson was 12th on Columbus over the past two seasons at .47 points per game. 
 

In terms of penalty minutes, Max Domi led the Habs by a mile with 115 minutes, which is comparable to Pierre Luc Dubois’ 113 over the past two seasons whereas Josh Anderson had 77. Max Domi was at .75 penalty minutes per game whereas Anderson was at .71. While this is a terrible stat to mention in Domi’s favor, I think it’s clear that some of those minutes came as a result of dropping the gloves and so he actually did bring grit to the table.

 

I am looking forward to liking Anderson but Domi should have the better career. I am not overwhelmingly upset about the move but think about it in your head when you’re trying to justify a trade by saying we filled a need, regardless of what we gave up. That’s not how it should work. It’s not like it was impossible for Domi to be good on the Habs again. I would have liked Troy Brower a decade ago, but I wouldn’t have been happy trading T.J. Oshie to get him.

 

 

You're still judging this by the same flawed criteria as many of those who hate it, point total averages. Anderson wasn't a top line player when he scored 27, he wasn't playing a long side the best Center on their team like he will be slotted to here. Max got all the top C luxuries here when he scored 70, and a skilled forward will find a way to produce in those circumstances, he is after all a very good player who just doesn't fit anymore in a context where he can thrive. 

 

With that said there are simply a lot of things Anderson does that Max never could. He drives the net and creates offense and forechecking with a power forward mentality, consistently, he will obviously thrive on the wing, something Domi seemingly can't do. He has a very heavy shot which creates a different threat than when Max is on the ice where you know he is looking more at creating plays than trying to fire rockets from the slot area.

 

Then there is the market value to consider, smallish skilled forwards are much more plentiful than big top 6 power forwards capable of scoring 25+ goals. You simply can't give up, in any market place, a commodity that is readily available for one that is much less so, at equal value. We got the rarer player type, and naturally it cost us slightly more than our asset to acquire it. It also happens to be an organizational need, which makes it even more enticing to pull the trigger.

 

We weren't going to get better keeping Domi around to eat into Suzuki or KK's minutes. We weren't going to be better forcing him to play wing, where he is less effective. We were also not going to get harder to play against in the playoffs, remaining as small as we are in the top 6. Like I said in my initial post, this was about building a roster that more closely resembles that of the one that can make some real noise in the playoffs. Truthfully, you don't acquire good assets without giving up some of your own, and in our case, Domi was one of the more expendable assets of value we had. We didn't waste it by not addressing team needs and roster balance, and ultimately that's fine by me.

 

We don't know how this is all going to turn out in the end, but all I'm saying is I agree with the logic and strategy behind the move, and if everyone involved does what is expected of them, this is an organizational win for us.

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52 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I know everyone has been talking about the bad year Max had last year (44 pts. in 71 games), certainly a drop off from the year before. Josh Anderson's best year was 47 pts in 82 games. I know everyone is excited that Josh is big and strong and brings grit and these are elements that Habs need on the wing but he has to stay healthy. I really hope it turns out but I am not convinced yet. 

If we look at stats only, Domi wins.  However, these two are different players and would have different roles on a team.  Most people call Domi a playmaker, however, it seemed that he would want to carry the puck through the neutral zone and  he would try to go through the opposition before making a play. If he got through, yes, he would then try to use his wingers.  However, most times he would lose possession of the puck during entry and the opposition would counter attack.  He was very predictable.  And I agree with you, I hope that Anderson can stay healthy, it's an important need.   

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I usually agree with xXx..CK..xXx and I often base my comments on Commandants evaluations of prospects and players.

but on the Domi for Anderson trade, I’ll wait and see.

 

I agree that Domi is more talented, like many thought at the time that we would be missing Galchenyuk or were skeptical of the signings of Armia, Tatar and others

 

I think the comparison of Anderson to Shaw is a good one, except for the size both players had success when driving the net and being physical. 
The first year Domi was here I thought he would fill Shaw’s role but he took too many stupid penalties and hurt the team. I also thought we had a good second line center, but Suzuki has shown to be better and at best Domi’s spot would have been as a 3rd line center. At $5.2-$5.5 mil/year that would have been a bad contract specially given his inconsistency 

 

I think that over the next 2-3 years Domi will have 55-65 point seasons with CBJ while Anderson may get to 45 points. But both players will fit better with their teams and make their line mates better.

 

we are loosing 15 point and a center, if we sign a middling 20 goal scoring UFA winger we will be just fine 

 

as for the 3rd round pick . Meh :spamafote: , we got a couple of extra picks at the trade deadline (Scandella, Kovalchuk, Shaw). I don’t think we lost much by using one of those picks that was the reason we got them in the first place: to use the on a trade or for a god draft pick

Edited by alfredoh2009
replaced Chiarot with Armia and Tatar

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Domi has talent, no doubt. But our top three C spots are spoken for and it would have made no sense to play him at 4C all season.

 

He doesn’t like yo play on the wing, and it shows in his attitude and production. So, that makes no sense, either.

 

And that left the trade option. Hopefully Anderson will work out as well as Bergevin envisions him, because that would be far better than an unhappy Domi at LW or 4C.

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It’s like all these evaluations are coming from people who have watched Anderson play 82 games a year. He must be a real catch. 
 

Fanpuck makes sense, seeing as he comes from Columbus, but I am not certain about everyone else.
 

I am aware that Anderson brings elements outside of points, but it doesn’t change the fact that we downgraded on talent. The early concensus is that it could potentially be a win-win for both teams. In the end, just because we will like what Anderson brings, it doesn’t mean that we will also be winners. 

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