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6.5mil over 6 years for Gallagher


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28 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

The fact is that Josh Anderson is only a very slightly better Joel Armia. That’s it, that’s all. We already have Joel Armia. Sure, it’s better to have two, and this one is slightly better. It’s like Domi and Drouin though, we had two and one is slightly better.

 

No, they are nowhere near the same level. Anderson has put up almost as many goals in a season Armia has ever out up points. I don't get the Armia love so many people around here have. He's a fourth liner on a decent team and along with Byron is a top option for cap clearance.

 

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Domi over Danault would leave the 20/21 Habs with nobody defensively suited to play against Tavares/Matthews, Krejci/Bergeron, Eichel, Crosby/Malkin, McDavid/Draisaitl, MacKinnon, etc. ... in a season

Believeau, Henri Richard, Cournoyer, Gainey and Markov -  in that order as far as I can recall.   roy, Chelios and koivu should have been on that list.

You really can't replace Danault with a rookie. Sure, you could play a rookie but the rookie will not be able to do what Danault does.

20 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

No, they are nowhere near the same level. Anderson has put up almost as many goals in a season Armia has ever out up points. I don't get the Armia love so many people around here have. He's a fourth liner on a decent team and along with Byron is a top option for cap clearance.

 

 

I think what has captivated people about Armia (including myself)  is that he has shown flashes of brilliance, big strong guy, good skater, has scored some beautiful goals but he has never  put together a really good season although last year he was on pace for his first 20 goal season. He has the tools in my opinion, has just never really put it all together consistently. Not sure whether is just a really good 3rd line player or can maybe play in the top 6. 

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29 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:

No, they are nowhere near the same level. Anderson has put up almost as many goals in a season Armia has ever out up points.

 

Anderson scored 27 goals in 82 games in 2018-19, his best season.

Armia was on pace for 23 goals in 82 games in 2019-20.

 

Nowhere near the same level?

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9 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:


This isn’t even the correct thread for this whiner opinion, gotta complain about something.

As if you have near the breadth of knowledge or research as the management team that does this for a living.

There is next to no concern about Anderson’s health and he provides exactly what Habs have been desperately missing.

The guys has wheel and can straight up beat goalies off the rush or in close, get off the negative nelly hormones or at least use the right thread to spew your negative bs. All kinds of league professionals see Anderson signing as a good move, but let’s stop and listen to some schmo who wants to shit on anything apparently.

Must suck to not even find joy in the Habs  moves this past month, feel bad for ya.

Dont waste your time, they could win a cup and Eeyore will still be Eeyore. But totally agree it must be tough to stay that course given recent upgrades.

Image result for eeyore images funny

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I think what has captivated people about Armia (including myself)  is that he has shown flashes of brilliance, big strong guy, good skater, has scored some beautiful goals but he has never  put together a really good season although last year he was on pace for his first 20 goal season. He has the tools in my opinion, has just never really put it all together consistently. Not sure whether is just a really good 3rd line player or can maybe play in the top 6. 

 

He's had numerous good seasons, its just hard to tell if you only look at points.  ex: 12 g 17 a = 29pts, in 79 games (best w Jets), 16 g 14 = 30 pts, but in 59 games w Habs.  Had he not been injured he likely would have had at least 20 g 20a = 40pts, which I agree, still isnt that high, (but he might have even got 45-50).  However, its his minutes, the more TOI he gets, the more points he gets.  ex; he played 4th only had 8 mins/game with Jets, but with Habs he was getting 3rd line mins and upped his output by 25% (same pts but in 20 less games - in both years w Habs), and if he hadnt been injured last year and got just 40pts it would be 33% increase from his 2 seasons with 30pts.  (the increase from 30 pts to 40 is 10/30 = 33%)

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Per 82 games

 

Anderson 19.96 goals
Armia 15.28 goals

 

Anderson 15.35 Assists

Armia 15.56 Assists

 

Anderson 35.31 points

Armia 30.85 points

 

Anderson 184.88 hits

Armia 132.31 hits

 

Anderson 191.06 shots

Armia 161.22 shots


Anderson 10.5 shot%

Armia 9.5 shot%
 

Anderson 37.77 shot blocks 

Armia 37.52 shot blocks

 

Anderson 15:21 TOI

Armia 14:34 TOI

 

Anderson 6”3

Armia 6”4

 

Anderson: shoots right

Armia: shoots right

 

He certainly is better though, if only slightly.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

He's had numerous good seasons, its just hard to tell if you only look at points.  ex: 12 g 17 a = 29pts, in 79 games (best w Jets), 16 g 14 = 30 pts, but in 59 games w Habs.  Had he not been injured he likely would have had at least 20 g 20a = 40pts, which I agree, still isnt that high, (but he might have even got 45-50).  However, its his minutes, the more TOI he gets, the more points he gets.  ex; he played 4th only had 8 mins/game with Jets, but with Habs he was getting 3rd line mins and upped his output by 25% (same pts but in 20 less games - in both years w Habs), and if he hadnt been injured last year and got just 40pts it would be 33% increase from his 2 seasons with 30pts.  (the increase from 30 pts to 40 is 10/30 = 33%)

 

Numerous good seasons??  His best season has been 30points!!  Points are generally a good way to judge forwards, Sure, he was on track to having  his best season this year but saying he has had numerous good seasons is a bit of a stretch. 

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2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I think what has captivated people about Armia (including myself)  is that he has shown flashes of brilliance, big strong guy, good skater, has scored some beautiful goals but he has never  put together a really good season although last year he was on pace for his first 20 goal season. He has the tools in my opinion, has just never really put it all together consistently. Not sure whether is just a really good 3rd line player or can maybe play in the top 6. 

I actually like Armia for what he is right now.  An extremely reliable winger who can play up and down the line up. Protect the puck. Hold off defenders, and defend extremely well. Armia is  an ideal 3rd liner, who can move up if needed. We often overlook the value of defensive ability. Of course i would love to see him put up a 60 point season and dominate, but I dont need that to like what he is right now. Danault, Armia,  Lehkonen,  and Byron all play extremely well defensively. 

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

He certainly is better though, if only slightly.

 

 

I dont disagree that they are similar in size and numbers.  However, its the hits thats the primary difference.  Anderson plays a way more physical game.  I havent seen many people if any that think Armia can get 25-30 g, but I think he could if he got more TOI.  Plus, they already had Armia, its getting the 2nd guy with similar size and stats, who they had nobody.  (the Habs are serial drafters of forwards that under 6' 180lbs). 

 

3 hours ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

No, they are nowhere near the same level. Anderson has put up almost as many goals in a season Armia has ever out up points. I don't get the Armia love so many people around here have. He's a fourth liner on a decent team and along with Byron is a top option for cap clearance.

 

 

Why do you think Armia is a 4th liner?  I find that to be a funny comment. 

 

 

44 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Numerous good seasons??  His best season has been 30points!!  Points are generally a good way to judge forwards, Sure, he was on track to having  his best season this year but saying he has had numerous good seasons is a bit of a stretch. 

 

Yes points are a good way, but you're failing to consider my argument regarding his TOI in which he is getting those points, and his increases in pts w increases in TOI.  He was likely on pace to get close to 50 pts this year.  So he got 12g for the Jets @ 12 mins/game, and would have got 24 g @ 17 mins/game.  Basically dbl the g from a less than 50% increase in TOI. 

 

Its also about his shooting %, which is over 10.  If he plays 80 games and takes around 4 shots/game he should be able to score around 30 - as do the other players with those stats.  ex:  Gally, Anderson, Toffoli, Tatar - the years they get around 30 g they have shooting % of 10+.  4 shots x 80 games = 320 shots, and 10% of that is 32 (g).  Give him 20mins/game so he can take that many shots and he'll likely get close to 30 g and 55-60pts.  

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Just now, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I dont disagree that they are similar in size and numbers.  However, its the hits thats the primary difference.  Anderson plays a way more physical game.  I havent seen many people if any that think Armia can get 25-30 g, but I think he could if he got more TOI.  Plus, they already had Armia, its getting the 2nd guy with similar size and stats, who they had nobody.  (the Habs are serial drafters of forwards that under 6' 180lbs). 

 

 

Why do you think Armia is a 4th liner?  I find that to be a funny comment. 

 

 

 

Yes points are a good way, but you're failing to consider my argument regarding his TOI in which he is getting those points, and his increases in pts w increases in TOI.  He was likely on pace to get close to 50 pts this year.  So he got 12g for the Jets @ 12 mins/game, and would have got 24 g @ 17 mins/game.  Basically dbl the g from a less than 50% increase in TOI. 

 

Its also about his shooting %, which is over 10.  If he plays 80 games and takes around 4 shots/game he should be able to score around 30 - as do the other players with those stats.  ex:  Gally, Anderson, Toffoli, Tatar - the years they get around 30 g they have shooting % of 10+.  4 shots x 80 games = 320 shots, and % of that is 32 (g).  Give him 20mins/game and he'll likely get close to 30 g and 55-60pts.  


Armia was a great 3rd liner on the team the Habs used to be.

He was a 4th liner in Winnipeg before the trade and will probably be a 4th liner on the improved Habs team.

Similar to Lehkonen.

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14 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

I dont disagree that they are similar in size and numbers.  However, its the hits thats the primary difference.  Anderson plays a way more physical game.  I havent seen many people if any that think Armia can get 25-30 g, but I think he could if he got more TOI.  Plus, they already had Armia, its getting the 2nd guy with similar size and stats, who they had nobody.  (the Habs are serial drafters of forwards that under 6' 180lbs). 

 

 


Anderson was a beast one year and had 214 hits. Armia was on pace for 206 hits last year. 

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1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

I actually like Armia for what he is right now.  An extremely reliable winger who can play up and down the line up. Protect the puck. Hold off defenders, and defend extremely well. Armia is  an ideal 3rd liner, who can move up if needed. We often overlook the value of defensive ability. Of course i would love to see him put up a 60 point season and dominate, but I dont need that to like what he is right now. Danault, Armia,  Lehkonen,  and Byron all play extremely well defensively. 

 

I agree, I like Armia too. I think he and Lehkonen are almost perfect 3rd line players. I am not downplaying his value to the team only suggesting that he hasn't been consistent enough offensively to warrant  playing  top 6 minutes. He has shown flashes at times of being a real good offensive player. You can't assume that if you double his minutes that his production will double. 

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15 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:


Armia was a great 3rd liner on the team the Habs used to be.

He was a 4th liner in Winnipeg before the trade and will probably be a 4th liner on the improved Habs team.

Similar to Lehkonen.

 

Theres no way Armia wont be on the 4th line.  Who would bump Armia to 4th line?   You'd play Byron 3rd line over Armia?

 

13 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree, I like Armia too. I think he and Lehkonen are almost perfect 3rd line players. I am not downplaying his value to the team only suggesting that he hasn't been consistent enough offensively to warrant  playing  top 6 minutes. He has shown flashes at times of being a real good offensive player. You can't assume that if you double his minutes that his production will double. 

 

You're being completely ridiculous suggesting I am assuming something.  Its simple math bud.

 

I'll go over it once more:  12 goals playing 12 mins/game w Jets,  last year Habs gave him under 18 mins/game and he was on pace for 24 g.  You can follow that 24 is twice as many as 12 right?  Furthermore, the difference between 12 mins and 18 mins is 6 mins.  6mins/12 mins = 50%.  Therefore, its an absolutely unarguable mathematical fact that the Habs gave Armia a 50% increase in ice time, and he doubled his goals. 

 

If he gets even more ice time, he'll shoot more, and get even more goals. 

 

Ironically, Byron has the best shooting % on the team, and its unlikely on the Habs, but I honestly think he could get 30, on he right team playing on 1st or 2nd line.  His shot is accurate enough.

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13 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

You're being completely ridiculous suggesting I am assuming something.  Its simple math bud.

 

I'll go over it once more:  12 goals playing 12 mins/game w Jets,  last year Habs gave him under 18 mins/game and he was on pace for 24 g.  You can follow that 24 is twice as many as 12 right?  Furthermore, the difference between 12 mins and 18 mins is 6 mins.  6mins/12 mins = 50%.  Therefore, its an absolutely unarguable mathematical fact that the Habs gave Armia a 50% increase in ice time, and he doubled his goals. 

 

If he gets even more ice time, he'll shoot more, and get even more goals. 

 

Ironically, Byron has the best shooting % on the team, and its unlikely on the Habs, but I honestly think he could get 30, on he right team playing on 1st or 2nd line.  His shot is accurate enough.

 

Fair enough, I can't  argue your stats, his goal total did go up this year with more ice time and he was on pace for over 20 goals for the first time ever in any league he has ever played in.  Hopefully it continues but we will have to see if this year was just an anomaly.  I like the guy. It will be difficult to for him to get more ice time this year as the right side will be pretty stacked. 

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25 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

I'll go over it once more:  12 goals playing 12 mins/game w Jets

 

Armia was a sniper in Liiga before coming to play here. Jets told him they wanted him to play defensive, and that's how he ended up on their fourth line. It was only after Julien freed him up to play offence, too, that he started scoring more.

 

From 2012:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1296135-10-unknown-nhl-snipers-you-will-be-talking-about-in-five-years

 

Incidentally, Toffoli is also on the list -- as is Louis Leblanc!

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49 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

Armia was a sniper in Liiga before coming to play here. Jets told him they wanted him to play defensive, and that's how he ended up on their fourth line. It was only after Julien freed him up to play offence, too, that he started scoring more.

 

From 2012:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1296135-10-unknown-nhl-snipers-you-will-be-talking-about-in-five-years

 

Incidentally, Toffoli is also on the list -- as is Louis Leblanc!

 

His best year in Liiga was 19 goals, not sure if that qualifies as a sniper.  There are definitely some duds on that bleacherreport list.  I am not trying to belittle Armia, I think he is a valuable player on the 3rd line. Just saying that he is 27 years old and he has never scored 20 goals in any league he has ever played in. If you want to pro rate, sure he likely would have done it this year but that is no guarantee. 

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21 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

Armia was a sniper in Liiga before coming to play here. Jets told him they wanted him to play defensive, and that's how he ended up on their fourth line. It was only after Julien freed him up to play offence, too, that he started scoring more.

 

From 2012:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1296135-10-unknown-nhl-snipers-you-will-be-talking-about-in-five-years

 

Incidentally, Toffoli is also on the list -- as is Louis Leblanc!

 

I'm not surprised that Toffoli is on that list that all.  Like I said earlier - its the basic math on any player with shooting % thats an absolute 10+%.  ex: if they take 4 shots every game, so 4 shots  x 80 games (easier math to use 80) = 320 shots/year, and 10% of that would be 32 goals.  Thats the simple formula to get 30 goals/yr.  Look at any 30 goal scorer and check their shooting % they are all generally over 10%, and are averaging close to 4 shots/game.   Also, keep in mind a player could have under 10%, like 9% but then they'd need to take 4+shots/game to hit 30 (or get high 20's), and if the % is higher than 10% they need to take average under 4 shots/game.     Then there the elite scores like Pastrnak and OV, with 15% and average 5-7 shots/game and get high 40's - 60 goals. 

 

Armia was on a scoring streak when he got injured too.  He is definitely highly under rated.  Armia also has great hands, I love the express stick handle in a phone booth,and its great to describe him.  I've definitely seen him tuck his stick between his feet then stick handle and pivot away with the puck.  ex:  scenario when a Habs is up against the boards and the puck is lose with 2 opposition guys in a scrum for it, I've seen Armia get the puck and the do this weird looking thing where he puts his stick between his legs with the puck and then pivot and just skate away with it.  I've seen him do that numerous times when he's the lone guy, and when he comes over to help his linemate.  Its neat because when he does that manoeuvre because the other team cant really do much to get the puck off him or they'll trip him. 

 

Lots of people on here dislike Byron, but I like him,  because his shooting % is actually nutbar.  Believe it or not, check out Byrons s% than look at some elite scorers like Pastrnak and OV's.  Byrons s% is generally equal to theirs and in several seasons its actually even higher.    The difference is they're just getting a lot more minutes and taking way more shots. 

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Well I guess if you only look at shooting % then Las Vegas should play Ryan Reaves a lot more, 8 goals in 61 shots for an awesome shooting percentage of 13.11% this year,  why is this sniper playing only 10 minutes a game?  He has actually been over 10% many times in his career. Sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. 

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24 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

His best year in Liiga was 19 goals, not sure if that qualifies as a sniper.

 

19 goals in 47 games, as a 19-year-old, is not shabby. His shooting was considered his strength back then.

 

My point was that Jets moved him in the opposite direction and that's why he ended up on the fourth line.

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15 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

19 goals in 47 games, as a 19-year-old, is not shabby. His shooting was considered his strength back then.

 

My point was that Jets moved him in the opposite direction and that's why he ended up on the fourth line.

He was drafted by and spent a few years in that  great Sabres organization.

295gms in NHL

31pt/82gms reg season

25pt/82 in playoffs.

That is what we should expect from him. 15g 15a, or 13g 17a, or 17g 14a; somewhere in there.

 

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49 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Well I guess if you only look at shooting % then Las Vegas should play Ryan Reaves a lot more, 8 goals in 61 shots for an awesome shooting percentage of 13.11% this year,  why is this sniper playing only 10 minutes a game?  He has actually been over 10% many times in his career. Sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. 

 

You are absolutely right that it isnt just about a players shooting %.  ex: if a player gets 100 shots and scores 10 goals, if you give them enough ice time that they get 300 shots would make every player a 30 goal scorer.  It definitely doesnt work like that.  Its a fact that the more shots someone takes the harder it is to maintain their s%, and that will be exposed.  Thats why the trick is when you look at a players s% also look at their ice time and then check it their goal differentials and over numerous seasons. 

 

Reaves has interesting s% and maintains 10+% for numerous seasons, but his ice time doesnt increase enough to see a big enough positive trend.  ex:, his s% is solid enough that if they gave him 22+ mins he'd likely score 16-18 g, but thats enough to warrant that ice time.  Armia's #'s are way better.

 

When you look at Armia's #'s you'll know what I mean.  12 goals playing 12 mins, s% over 10%, his mins increased, as did his goals, and his s% stayed the same.  That trend happened over numerous seasons, so its not likely a fluke. 

 

Like I've said, any player that can maintain a s% over 10% and can avg 4 shots/game will score 30 g/yr.  That is the unarguable math on those numbers.   

 

For sure, its not like all players are capable of maintaining their s% by any means, but by looking at those 3 stats you can figure out players that regularly do vs dont. 

 

36 minutes ago, DON said:

He was drafted by and spent a few years in that  great Sabres organization.

295gms in NHL

31pt/82gms reg season

25pt/82 in playoffs.

That is what we should expect from him. 15g 15a, or 13g 17a, or 17g 14a; somewhere in there.

 

 

I think he's capable of 25g 25 a up to 30g 30a.  He likely would have got 45 pts this year, so I dont think 50 pts is way off base. 

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9 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

I think he's capable of 25g 25 a up to 30g 30a.  He likely would have got 45 pts this year, so I dont think 50 pts is way off base. 

Sure is capable of it, if all the stars align for him, but why would you expect it?

He might even play  a lesser RW role this year.

Gallagher/Taffoli/Anderson and Armia. Will one move to LW?

Edited by DON
2nd thought
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6 minutes ago, DON said:

Gallagher/Taffoli/Anderson and Armia. Will one move to LW?

 

Likely either Toffoli or Armia, who are both capable of playing on the left side.

 

And setting stats aside for the moment, having that flexibility adds value to a player, too.

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4 minutes ago, DON said:

Sure is capable of it, if all the stars align for him, but why would you expect it?

He might even play  a lesser RW role this year.

Gallagher/Taffoli/Anderson and Armia. Will one move to LW?

 

No stars need to align for that to happen.  If someone cant handle the One Man Armia in Mercury retrograde then they dont deserve him in Jupiter rising.  😉

 

Like tomh009 said Toffoli can play both wings. 

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54 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

I think he's capable of 25g 25 a up to 30g 30a.  He likely would have got 45 pts this year, so I dont think 50 pts is way off base. 

 

I would love to see him score 25 goals, I really would.  I just don't expect it.  Time will tell. 

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