Mont Royale Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by GOHABSGO22Hossa had many chances to make the Habs but failed. Everytime the Habs called him up he would score for the first 10-15 games then do nothing. Hossa my have four goals so far but he won't get ten by the end of the season. True. His last goal is representative of most that he scores: somebody took a shot, the rebound dropped in front of him, and all he had to do was put it in the empty net (goalie was out of position). No skill or effort required. He is benefitting by playing with talented teammates right now, but the NYR coach will eventually find another player that can create opportunities. That's when Marcel is back to the press box, or minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by Mont Royale Originally posted by GOHABSGO22Hossa had many chances to make the Habs but failed. Everytime the Habs called him up he would score for the first 10-15 games then do nothing. Hossa my have four goals so far but he won't get ten by the end of the season. True. His last goal is representative of most that he scores: somebody took a shot, the rebound dropped in front of him, and all he had to do was put it in the empty net (goalie was out of position). No skill or effort required. He is benefitting by playing with talented teammates right now, Dave Andreychuk over 600 goals like that in his career. Don't hear anyone calling him a bum. A goal is a goal, no matter how its scored Hossa's 7 or 8 points and +3 rating is better than Dagenais's 2 points -4+/-, Bulis's 5 points and +2 rating and Bonk 3 points -1 although I think thats unfair as a Bonk, Bulis, Hossa line would have been spectacular. What I'm getting at is that waiving Dagenais or otherwise losing him for nothing would have been better than trading Hossa for junkman Murray. [Edited on 2005/11/8 by kaos] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by kaosDave Andreychuk over 600 goals like that in his career. Don't hear anyone calling him a bum. A goal is a goal, no matter how its scored[Edited on 2005/11/8 by kaos] Andreychuk plays hard. Nobody gets 600 goals waiting for an empty net to appear. He wins battles and creates chances. Hossa could do that, and has when the mood strikes him, but does not consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieug Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 5 in a row? Go Habs Go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harding Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 This is a big game for the habs!..Goin for 5 straight wins...We don't wanna make it 5 straight losses to the Bolts dating back to the playoffs....Tampa Bay is still a strong offensive team for sure but their goaltending isn't as good as it use to be!....Also John Grahame will be getting the night off after stuggling the last 3 games allowing 15 goals...Brian Eklund will be making his first start of his NHL career! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Are you sure about that BUrke night off where did you read??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieug Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by $Harding$This is a big game for the habs!..Goin for 5 straight wins...We don't wanna make it 5 straight losses to the Bolts dating back to the playoffs....Tampa Bay is still a strong offensive team for sure but their goaltending isn't as good as it use to be!....Also John Grahame will be getting the night off after stuggling the last 3 games allowing 15 goals...Brian Eklund will be making his first start of his NHL career! Who's telling the're going with Brian-I'm quick on my skates, slick stickhandling, cocky-Eklund? Pepper that goalie boys!! :ghg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieug Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by JMMRAre you sure about that BUrke night off where did you read??? Sean Burke is injured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Begin&Higgins Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 TSN.ca Brian Eklund will be making his first start. Use to play with yann danis so maybe he'll know some weaknesses. Man, I can see the habs scoring 8 or 9 tonight. *Knock on wood* Go Habs Go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by simonus Originally posted by Mont RoyaleI wouldn't say Gainey got hosed. I think this trade was more about being fair to Hossa, and giving him a chance to make it somewhere else in the NHL. As someone else on this forum said (sorry, forget who), Gainey is building a team with certain characteristics (grit, determination), and Hossa doesn't have them. If Hossa is valueless to the Habs, how did we get hosed by getting someone likely valueless in return? The alternative was to send him down to Hamilton, at which point anybody could have picked him up for nothing. :hlogo: This is a bit of false logic. Sure, Hossa might not be worth anything to Gainey, but the idea in trading is to find someone for whom your player has value. Let's say you have a copper ring. You have tons of gold, silver, platinum, and diamond rings, so you don't care about the copper one. You wouldn't even notice if it was gone. If you felt like being generous you would give the copper ring away or trade it to your friend for a thumbtack. However, if you were a proper capitalist you should sell your copper ring for something else worth $23 (or whatever) since that its value on the open market. Now, if you are a really smart capitalist (which we assume you are since you have all that gold, silver, and platinum) and you've read your Keynes, you find some dude who just loves copper and litterally can't find enough of it. You sell it to him for $30. Gainey's job in making a trade is to find a buyer who values Hossa more than he does. Now, I'm not saying that the trade was bad. I have no idea... I don't really know anything about Murray and I don't really keep up with the Bulldogs. Perhaps Gainey was trying to establish a friendly trading environment with Sathers (seems a bit silly... but I don't know from being a GM) or maybe it was part of future considerations for the Kovalev trade (don't know if there were any). However, the old 'we don't like him, so we don't need to get anything for him' argument doesn't hold water. In fact, I'd argue, if you don't like what you've got you better get something you like when you get rid of him. I don't want to belabour this point (or maybe I do?) but trading a player is more complicated than selling a ring. There are at least 2 considerations here that Gainey might be taking into account. First, especially under the new rules, there is a significant benefit to treating player well. We want people to come and play in Montreal and with the cap limiting our finanical incentives it becomes important for players around the league to feel that the Habs organization treats its players well. Thus if we can't use Hossa, it helps us to trade him even if we don't get much, rather than make him very unhappy but keep him. Secondly, although Murray may not help the NHL team perhaps he is useful in Hamilton for developing our youngsters. This means he has a value to us even if he never makes the NHL. Personally I think, in hindsight it may have been better to let Dagenais go and keep Hossa. However, this view might change in a few weeks if Dagenais contributes more (say on a shootout) and/or Hossa goes into his usual (7/8 of a season) slump. I trust Gainey's judgement and can forgive a few mis-judgements by him. It is much easier to make these decisions after the fact. :ghg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Good points, Peter. We definitely want to become a destination of choice in the NHL. I've read about the things that went on in the 'original six' days, when a player who didn't fit or wasn't liked was banished to the minors, so that he didn't end up with the competition. Fortunately in this regard, the league has evolved since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by Peter Puck I don't want to belabour this point (or maybe I do?) but trading a player is more complicated than selling a ring. There are at least 2 considerations here that Gainey might be taking into account. First, especially under the new rules, there is a significant benefit to treating player well. We want people to come and play in Montreal and with the cap limiting our finanical incentives it becomes important for players around the league to feel that the Habs organization treats its players well. Thus if we can't use Hossa, it helps us to trade him even if we don't get much, rather than make him very unhappy but keep him. Secondly, although Murray may not help the NHL team perhaps he is useful in Hamilton for developing our youngsters. This means he has a value to us even if he never makes the NHL. Personally I think, in hindsight it may have been better to let Dagenais go and keep Hossa. However, this view might change in a few weeks if Dagenais contributes more (say on a shootout) and/or Hossa goes into his usual (7/8 of a season) slump. I trust Gainey's judgement and can forgive a few mis-judgements by him. It is much easier to make these decisions after the fact. :ghg: I think you are underestimating the complexities of selling a ring of course it made sense to get rid of Hossa (didn't he make like 50% more than dagenais btw?), but that is no reason to not maximize your return (which, again, Gainey might well have done). Hossa kinda has gone into his slump... he is no longer scoring at his original pace. I don't know how many times i need to say this, but I don't have any opinion on Murray. I am speaking to logic methodology, not actual results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 The Hossa thing. Gainey as showned fairness in giving some room for players that ''already'' had contributed like Dagenais or that had responded most positively from day one of being drafted by the Club like Higgins, Perezhogin and Plekanec. Those rockies in all fairness to their developpement needed also MORE than being just reservists and since Gainey wanted to keep Begin and Sundstrom on the ice they had to let go of Hossa. Decisions at the top level as a subtle influences in creating a spirit in a team...not easily discerned by stats based computerised evaluation....but most often by a team out-performing its power rancking predictions. I think this spirit is mostly the result of a ''just'' relation between an organisation and its players. As far as I can see, I would say that the so-called '' 7th player '' in a team as more to do with the GM than with the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by simonusof course it made sense to get rid of Hossa (didn't he make like 50% more than dagenais btw?) Hossa - $585,200 Dagenais - $550,000 http://nhlpa.com/WebStats/PlayerSearchV2.a...sp?OIDTeam=9461 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieug Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Nice to know. the last two games Eklund started before he got called up by Tampa, he played very well! 10/22/05: (played 10m24s, 3 saves on 7 shots) 2-8 defeat vs. Providence [pulled and replaced by Coleman] 10/28/05: (played 60', 39 saves on 46 shots) 3-7 defeat vs. Lowell Watch out boys, Brian's on fire!! [Edited on 8-11-05 by mathieug] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by mathieugNice to know. the last two games Eklund started before he got called up by Tampa, he played very well! 10/22/05: (played 10m24s, 3 saves on 7 shots) 2-8 defeat vs. Providence [pulled and replaced by Coleman] 10/28/05: (played 60', 39 saves on 46 shots) 3-7 defeat vs. Lowell Watch out boys, Brian's on fire!! [Edited on 8-11-05 by mathieug] He can't play net, and his trade rumours are unreliable at best. What's he good for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funk Doc Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 its gonna be hard for Eklund to start his first career game in Montreal. I hope the Habs rattle him early and score early like they did in the Buffalo game on saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie_Morenz Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by Funk Docits gonna be hard for Eklund to start his first career game in Montreal. I hope the Habs rattle him early and score early like they did in the Buffalo game on saturday. He was just on THESCORE cable station and is excited to be playing against the Habs. He grew up watching his team Boston with Andy Moog playing against Patrick Roy and said he cannot wait to play. Sounds like he is ready to play. Montreal must put the pressure on early and score.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebehabs Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 wow~ a lots of quality post haha~ i luv to read well, i'll be attending class... with my ckac in my ear during class (haha~ u guys start to get used to it) and will be following the habs with the faithful members on web bell center~ predictions : habs 6 - bolts 4 btw, i confirm that bon kand bulis wont take part of the game (injuriessss) if anyone else confirmed yet hehe [Edited on 2005/11/8 by bebehabs] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I won't be here tonight (soccer). My second missed game. I'll have to check the papers tomorrow. 4-3 Lightning OT Again, don't worry. Every game I predicted a loss for we won so far. But I have a bad feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by simonusHossa kinda has gone into his slump... he is no longer scoring at his original pace. He scored just last night. I think that's 5 for him on the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I hope this young guy get blasted back to the minors... LETS GET A LOTS OF GOALS TONIGHT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Laszlo Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 well, I don't really have anything to add except :ghg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie_Morenz Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Originally posted by DJ_Laszlowell, I don't really have anything to add except :ghg: You do realize thet GO Habs Go is one of the most important contributions!:/):/):/):/) GO HABS GGGGGGOOOOOOO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOHABSGO22 Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 GO HABS GO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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