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2021 NHL General Discussion


hab29RETIRED

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44 minutes ago, DON said:

Really? Is this the 1800s?

No.  If this was 1800's,  business would have to be done in English.

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Im sure they do. 

Not sure an Anglo would be tolerated 

Tolerated by fans or the government ?

 

By the fans has always been the discussion, and the fear by the Habs/Molson et al ... but I am confident that government doesn't enter into the equation.

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2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Today Legault announced new French language laws. I only understood part of it but part of this new law is that business must be done in French. 
 

The way they described this law means that the Habs management must conduct business in French alone - meaning no Anglo coach or GM

The fact that these laws are being passed is a sign that most Quebecers support them (not necessarily most Montrealers)- they are the ones who elected the governments. These are the types of concerns that led a lot of companies to move from head offices from Montreal to Ontario, in the 80’s and 90’s.

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16 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Tolerated by fans or the government ?

 

By the fans has always been the discussion, and the fear by the Habs/Molson et al ... but I am confident that government doesn't enter into the equation.

Who elected the government that is passing these laws?

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From my experience, as a French Speaking guy from Montreal,  the more people are concerned about Habs' success, the less they care about the language spoken by the coach or any staff member.

 

Mr. Anybody on the street who will give his opinion on the matter will probably say that they care in a larger %, but as soon as you run the same survey among die hard Habs fans and people who follow hockey closely and understand the league and the sport better, the % of people who believe we need more Quebec born players or even a French speaking coach drop big time.

 

And then you have the Rejean Tremblay and the Bertrand Raymond  who will always write about this issue and act like they are the leader of a movement among the population.  BS.

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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Tolerated by fans or the government ?

 

By the fans has always been the discussion, and the fear by the Habs/Molson et al ... but I am confident that government doesn't enter into the equation.

 

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Who elected the government that is passing these laws?


When the government brings up the fact that the Habs had no French players in the lineup for ONE stinking game it speaks volumes. Add in today’s news and you see a new round of nationalism beginning. 
 

As Hab29 says, the government represents the people and if the people elect government with this platform it shows they support it. 
 

It’s not impossible for an Anglo GM or coach but it would take a real savvy politician or ex player to help. Not advocating but Roy as president might have the clout to convince Québécois that winning is more important than speaking French. 
 

Molson couldn’t stand under the pressure. This flake apologized twice, once for cunnyworth and last year when Muller coached. 

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On 5/12/2021 at 1:09 PM, Habsfan89 said:

Jokes about Penis size maybe 😳🤔

There youse guys go picking on me again!! 

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1 hour ago, JoeLassister said:

From my experience, as a French Speaking guy from Montreal,  the more people are concerned about Habs' success, the less they care about the language spoken by the coach or any staff member.

 

Mr. Anybody on the street who will give his opinion on the matter will probably say that they care in a larger %, but as soon as you run the same survey among die hard Habs fans and people who follow hockey closely and understand the league and the sport better, the % of people who believe we need more Quebec born players or even a French speaking coach drop big time.

 

And then you have the Rejean Tremblay and the Bertrand Raymond  who will always write about this issue and act like they are the leader of a movement among the population.  BS.

I can't say I grew up anywhere but I aged as a kid in Montreal until I was 15. And as an english speaking only kid on Rosedale avenue , a stone's throw from Trenhomme Park, I closely identified with the players of the team as 'our guys' or us. Especially when playing the Lake Ontario oddball wannabes... the Leafs and their suicidal ownership. 

 

So as a kid I get it. And I think its wonderful that Guy was one of us.. even as an english speaking kid. 

 

I rather hate the idea of hockey as a business with performance goals but prefer to see it as the people I love in hot competition with the rest of the world. I've always had an inverted prejudice when it comes to Quebec vs the ROC although that was then and this is now and pretty different. 

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3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Who elected the government that is passing these laws?

The 38% that voted for the Coalition Avenir Québec, of the 66% who turned out and voted ... so about 25% of the population ... and as with EVERY election at EVERY level no way to know what portion of that 25% agreed with any one specific element of the party's platform ... 

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

When the government brings up the fact that the Habs had no French players in the lineup for ONE stinking game it speaks volumes ...

Did the GOVERNMENT bring it up or did Premier Philippe Couillard respond to a reporter's question?   

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1 hour ago, Toronthab said:

There youse guys go picking on me again!! 

Keep up the good work sir!

Yourself and Trizzak really do make me chuckle often, wish i was just half as witty...someday when i grow up maybe?

 

 Cheers.

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55 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

The 38% that voted for the Coalition Avenir Québec, of the 66% who turned out and voted ... so about 25% of the population ... and as with EVERY election at EVERY level no way to know what portion of that 25% agreed with any one specific element of the party's platform ... 

 

Maybe there is room for an Anglo?

 

I can’t appreciate Quebec politics and nationalism and all of that history. I just remember Molson apologized for having an English coach twice so I figured it must be a big deal to do something so wrong. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

Maybe there is room for an Anglo?

 

I can’t appreciate Quebec politics and nationalism and all of that history. I just remember Molson apologized for having an English coach twice so I figured it must be a big deal to do something so wrong. 

 

 

 

The the internal operations of businesses the size of the Habs must, by law, be conducted in French, then any Anglo would have to be bilingual. (Of course, I haven’t read the bill; there are probably qualifiers in there like “largely in French”, “to the greatest extent possible,” etc. Those could provide some flexibility, but certainly not enough that a unilingual English GM would be legal - unless the Habs hire translators).

 

The history of French-Canadian marginalization within the economy of their own province is very real. That said, it has not really be an issue since the 1970s. These kinds of laws are not about solving any actual problems, they are a sort of political virtue-signalling identity politics pandering to mostly irrational majoritarian fears. But at least this law is not overtly racist like Bill C-21.

 

Also: as I’ve noted before, if English-speaking hockey people did not act like learning a second language was an unimaginable hardship, these sorts of linguistic provisions wouldn’t bother us as much.

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2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Maybe there is room for an Anglo?

 

I can’t appreciate Quebec politics and nationalism and all of that history. I just remember Molson apologized for having an English coach twice so I figured it must be a big deal to do something so wrong. 

 

Not saying it isn't a consideration from molson's perspective ... just that the government has nothing to do with it other than a typical politician answering a question with what they think is the most politically beneficial answer.

 

As I said elsewhere ... it would be interesting for someone like The Gazette to do some detailed, scientific polling (i.e., not a question on a website) to find out exactly how much of a problem it would be from a PR perspective.

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Good News

The NHL playoffs were the first story under CNN's Sports banner this afternoon

 

Bad news

 

image.png

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On 5/13/2021 at 6:46 PM, GHT120 said:

 

Not saying it isn't a consideration from molson's perspective ... just that the government has nothing to do with it other than a typical politician answering a question with what they think is the most politically beneficial answer.

 

As I said elsewhere ... it would be interesting for someone like The Gazette to do some detailed, scientific polling (i.e., not a question on a website) to find out exactly how much of a problem it would be from a PR perspective.

 

ّI’m currently reading and enjoying Dryden’s bio of Scotty Bowman. It takes a deeply historical perspective on NHL hockey, as seen through Bowman’s eyes. I was interested to read the following:

 

”In September 1950...if the Canadiens, in lore and legend, were the ‘Flying Frenchmen,’ in reality at this time, and as had been the case throughout most of their history, they were neither ‘flying’ nor were they ‘Frenchmen.’ Of all the Canadiens players who dressed for more than 50 games in 1950-51, only three - Richard, Bouchard, and little-used Norm Dussault - were of French-speaking heritage. For decades, the NHL had been dominated by names like Howe, Bentley, Lindsay, Kennedy [etc.]...Even among the players with French names - Lalonde, Boucher, Joliat - most were not from Quebec.” (51)

 

What we are now living through is a reversion to the historical norm following an era in which (a) the Habs were able to own a whole network of farm teams in Quebec and therefore get first dibs on all French players and (b) the ratio between impact players coming out of Quebec and available NHL jobs was much smaller. It is simply NOT POSSIBLE in today’s NHL for one team to hoard 6-7 francophone regulars.

 

”Make the Canadiens French again” is nativist nostalgia on the same order of ignorance as MAGA.

 

Fans mooning over the lost days of the Richard Bros., Beliveau, Plante, Lafleur, etc., should also ask themselves why Quebec no longer produces players of that order with the same consistency. But nah, easier to just denounce the Habs.

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Just now, Commandant said:

With the Caps already down two goalies, and 39 year old Craig Anderson taking over yesterday, the team has called up Zach Fucale.

 

And the Hollywood story begins ... Zach's march to the Conn Smythe

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35 minutes ago, Fanpuck33 said:

 

Only what two more goalies to go down before Samsonov comes off the COVID list before he gets in? :lol:

 

Zach outplayed Copley in the AHL so im not sure which one would be next up if anderson was hurt and samsonov not back yet.  I know copley was on the taxi but that doesnt necessarily mean hes ahead on the depth chart.

 

We probably wont see either though.

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23 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

ّI’m currently reading and enjoying Dryden’s bio of Scotty Bowman. It takes a deeply historical perspective on NHL hockey, as seen through Bowman’s eyes. I was interested to read the following:

 

”In September 1950...if the Canadiens, in lore and legend, were the ‘Flying Frenchmen,’ in reality at this time, and as had been the case throughout most of their history, they were neither ‘flying’ nor were they ‘Frenchmen.’ Of all the Canadiens players who dressed for more than 50 games in 1950-51, only three - Richard, Bouchard, and little-used Norm Dussault - were of French-speaking heritage. For decades, the NHL had been dominated by names like Howe, Bentley, Lindsay, Kennedy [etc.]...Even among the players with French names - Lalonde, Boucher, Joliat - most were not from Quebec.” (51)

 

What we are now living through is a reversion to the historical norm following an era in which (a) the Habs were able to own a whole network of farm teams in Quebec and therefore get first dibs on all French players and (b) the ratio between impact players coming out of Quebec and available NHL jobs was much smaller. It is simply NOT POSSIBLE in today’s NHL for one team to hoard 6-7 francophone regulars.

 

”Make the Canadiens French again” is nativist nostalgia on the same order of ignorance as MAGA.

 

Fans mooning over the lost days of the Richard Bros., Beliveau, Plante, Lafleur, etc., should also ask themselves why Quebec no longer produces players of that order with the same consistency. But nah, easier to just denounce the Habs.

All true but when moms and dads go to the ball game they're cheering mostly for their kid. Do sports fans generally just cheer for the best team?  Did we hope Gretsky would score on les boys because he was a clearly superior hockey player? Nah. We're natural things with natural affections. Even wolf packs are families. This is foundational in human culture. We identify with our local heroes and in an anglo culture its pretty understandable that Quebecers would strongly identify with their local French heroes. Similar reasons to why most of us go home to our families at the end of day. 

 

Another funny thing about me as I was raised English speaking in the then Catholic school system in Montreal was that though only half and linguistically distantly French,  I identify much more strongly with French culture while very much appreciating the political and institutional contributions of the English side of my family. I have an inverted prejudice in favor of at least the historical French. The current crop not so much as I find they are .. like most in the west, ideologues with pretty truncated imaginations and philosophical frameworks. Cheers

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30 minutes ago, Toronthab said:

All true but when moms and dads go to the ball game they're cheering mostly for their kid. Do sports fans generally just cheer for the best team?  Did we hope Gretsky would score on les boys because he was a clearly superior hockey player? Nah. We're natural things with natural affections. Even wolf packs are families. This is foundational in human culture. We identify with our local heroes and in an anglo culture its pretty understandable that Quebecers would strongly identify with their local French heroes. Similar reasons to why most of us go home to our families at the end of day. 

 

Another funny thing about me as I was raised English speaking in the then Catholic school system in Montreal was that though only half and linguistically distantly French,  I identify much more strongly with French culture while very much appreciating the political and institutional contributions of the English side of my family. I have an inverted prejudice in favor of at least the historical French. The current crop not so much as I find they are .. like most in the west, ideologues with pretty truncated imaginations and philosophical frameworks. Cheers

 

I agree with every word of this. But "local affections" still have to bracketed by a baseline commitment to being reasonable. Expecting the 2021 Habs to have a half-dozen francophones is not reasonable; it's just plain stupid.

 

Local affections also have to be bracketed by a baseline commitment to justice, fairness, and inclusion - which is also something Quebec is having a problem with, given its current legislated discrimination against religious minorities. But that discussion takes us beyond a hockey site to be sure!

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