Into the Abyss: the Carey Price debate

[Commandant]

10 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

@Commandant do you have something on draft eligible goalies, or prospects, on you site?

If not, what would you recommend? 
 

 

I dont think weve gotten into the goalies yet.  Other than the Swedish kid who will go really high.

[alfredoh2009]

4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I dont think weve gotten into the goalies yet.  Other than the Swedish kid who will go really high.

Thx

[sbhatt]

On 2/7/2021 at 12:11 PM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Price is retiring a Hab IMHO. The only way that doesn’t happen is if the team blows and he asks to go to a contender to play out his final year or two.

 

His number will be retired, by the way.

I don't think a player can get his number retired in Montreal without having at least 2 cup rings, so I sure hope that you are right.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

36 minutes ago, sbhatt said:

I don't think a player can get his number retired in Montreal without having at least 2 cup rings, so I sure hope that you are right.

 

Ha! If two Cup rings are required then there will likely be no jersey retirements for the foreseeable future. The Habs love ceremonies, and like I say, Price is the only player of the past 20 years to touch true greatness for a sustained period. He's a litmus test: if the Habs ever do decide to retire a player's number without winning a Cup, it will be for Price.

 

(This assumes no Cup over the rest of his career, of course! If he wins one, then his number gets retired for sure).

[Habsfan]

20 hours ago, sbhatt said:

I don't think a player can get his number retired in Montreal without having at least 2 cup rings, so I sure hope that you are right.

Agreed. I think you need to have at least ONE cup to have your number retired. Asking for two cups might be a little exagerated seeing as the Habs don't play in a 6 team league anymore and don't win the Cup every second year like they used to in the 50's, 60's and 70's.  If Carey can help this team win ONE cup, then there's no doubt in my mind his number will be retired, but without a cup, not sure it's gonna happen!

[Habsfan]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:16 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

The teams in front of Price have not been very good until this year, but he has never been Hasek dominant- but than who has??

I would argue that the 2013-14 and 2014-15 Carey Price was Hasek level dominant. .927 and .934 save percentages on average teams.

[DON]

1 minute ago, Habsfan said:

I would argue that the 2013-14 and 2014-15 Carey Price was Hasek level dominant. .927 and .934 save percentages on average teams.

NO, not a chance, no one has played like Hasek in his prime, no goalie i have ever seen anyways.

[Habsfan]

We'll have to agree to disagree...

[DON]

2 hours ago, Habsfan said:

We'll have to agree to disagree...

Sure no issue there, just that flip flopping Gumby-like goalie was just so unusual and basically took Sabres to finals with pretty weak roster, if my memory is correct.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I sure hope Price wins a cup here, that’s for sure! 
 

If Price were to retire today, it would indeed seem like a rather “ordinary” career in terms of earning such such an honour as jersey retirement in my opinion. With that being said, all time leader in games played for a goaltender, as well as all time leader in regular season wins for the organization makes for a good argument in and of its own. 
 

If I were a betting man, I’d say it’s over 50% likely that Price’s jersey will be retired when all is said and done. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 minute ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I sure hope Price wins a cup here, that’s for sure! 
 

If Price were to retire today, it would indeed seem like a rather “ordinary” career in terms of earning such such an honour as jersey retirement in my opinion. With that being said, all time leader in games played for a goaltender, as well as all time leader in regular season wins for the organization makes for a good argument in and of its own. 
 

If I were a betting man, I’d say it’s over 50% likely that Price’s jersey will be retired when all is said and done. 

Price is winning the cup this year. 
 

Team is having some struggles but they will overcome. 
 

Retired jersey I’m all for it but I’m not sure if that will happen unless he wins a cup. 
 

Koivu wasn’t and he was the longest serving captain and the closest thing to elite until he lost his knee we had for a long time. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Those are awful numbers 

 

If Price didn’t have NMC I would put him on waivers for taxi squad savings. 

 

Nobody would claim him

[alfredoh2009]

 

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 

And buying out Carey is all but impossible ... the cap hits for the next five years are $9,100,000, $10,100,000, $9,100,000, $9,100,000 and $9,100,000

 

I think he can still be a solid starting goalie, with spikes to his Carey-ness ... but his head seen=ms messed up ... when they zoom in on him too often his expression causes me concern, not comfort ... would love to just give him a week off but the cap situation makes that challenging ... maybe he just needs a few games off (i.e., backing up) and meetings with Dr. David Scott the Habs Sports Psychology Consultant

 

[hab29RETIRED]

23 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

And buying out Carey is all but impossible ... the cap hits for the next five years are $9,100,000, $10,100,000, $9,100,000, $9,100,000 and $9,100,000

 

I think he can still be a solid starting goalie, with spikes to his Carey-ness ... but his head seen=ms messed up ... when they zoom in on him too often his expression causes me concern, not comfort ... would love to just give him a week off but the cap situation makes that challenging ... maybe he just needs a few games off (i.e., backing up) and meetings with Dr. David Scott the Habs Sports Psychology Consultant

 

maybe we can call Gainey to take him for a walk and become the low confidence whiperer for Price, like he was for Kovolev.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

6 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

maybe we can call Gainey to take him for a walk and become the low confidence whiperer for Price, like he was for Kovolev.

 

Ha ha, I thought of that too. Bob also pulled off that miraculous offloading of Theodore’s contract - we’re unlikely to see a similar deus ex machina in this case. 

 

Didn’t Price have an issue with chronic fatigue a few years ago? It’s fair to ask if something is going on. Heck, there seems to be a broad alignment between his decline and the expansion of his family. Perhaps his focus and hunger just are not with hockey anymore. Maybe he doesn’t want to admit that to himself; he would not be the first.

 

He is also 33. While guys of his pedigree usually last longer, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he is simply one of those players who “got old” relatively young. If he were a position player, nobody would be surprised by a decline.

[hab29RETIRED]

8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Ha ha, I thought of that too. Bob also pulled off that miraculous offloading of Theodore’s contract - we’re unlikely to see a similar deus ex machina in this case. 

 

Didn’t Price have an issue with chronic fatigue a few years ago? It’s fair to ask if something is going on. Heck, there seems to be a broad alignment between his decline and the expansion of his family. Perhaps his focus and hunger just are not with hockey anymore. Maybe he doesn’t want to admit that to himself; he would not be the first.

 

He is also 33. While guys of his pedigree usually last longer, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he is simply one of those players who “got old” relatively young. If he were a position player, nobody would be surprised by a decline.

this is why I hated the contract and was in favour of blowing it up a couple of years ago. Now, you really can't do that. You just invested a lot in some players (offensive pickups have been very good), but your too top players are showing their age and decline and it's been like falling off a cliff decline. I think a change of scenery would probably benefit Price and may revitalize his career, but he's got the "Contract Sucks" situation" that Luongo has and has had a number of years now where he's been more bad than good.  Having said that Brady just won another super bowl at friggin 43 years old.  The big difference of course is that was his seventh win - he's like the Henri Richard of the NFL when it comes to championships AND Gretkzy in being the GOAT and he did it playing the most important position in the game.  As a long-time Montana Fan, you can't imagine how painful it was to write all that.  Getting back to Price, he's won squat so far and this is probably the best team he's had in front of him.  This year the team has got him goals to work with, or has come back to score, only to see him let in another goal when a save was needed.

 

Dryden had written the team needs the goalie to make a key save at the right time. He did that all the time. Roy let in a LOT of bad goals, but usually made the big save when needed (not-withstanding the Statue of Liberty gaffe) Price has made some spectacular saves this year, he just has not made many of those key saves a team needs the goalie to make. Not sure if the loss of focus, lax in his stance (he has generally been the most technically sound goalie of his generation), has something to do with getting old, being too laid back nature (chill it out, its only the regular season), loss of focus because outside factors, or just not wanting it enough anymore.  I've defended him early this year and expected a solid effort like he gave right after MT got fired, but last night was an embarrassment.

[GHT120]

22 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Ha ha, I thought of that too. Bob also pulled off that miraculous offloading of Theodore’s contract - we’re unlikely to see a similar deus ex machina in this case. 

 

Didn’t Price have an issue with chronic fatigue a few years ago? It’s fair to ask if something is going on. Heck, there seems to be a broad alignment between his decline and the expansion of his family. Perhaps his focus and hunger just are not with hockey anymore. Maybe he doesn’t want to admit that to himself; he would not be the first.

 

He is also 33. While guys of his pedigree usually last longer, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he is simply one of those players who “got old” relatively young. If he were a position player, nobody would be surprised by a decline.

All valid points

 

Panthers might swap Bobrovsky for Price ... but that doesn't really solve anything ... Warm weather and no state tax might tempt Carey to waive his NTC but not certain Sergei wants to get colder and pay more taxes ... and would it solve anything?

 

Chronic fatigue can be a serious issue and it doesn't just have physical impacts, emotions and focus are also at issue ... habs should consider it and perhaps insist on an assessment

 

It is possible age has caught up but I think the physical skills are there, just impaired by whatever is happening between his ears.

[hab29RETIRED]

Just now, GHT120 said:

All valid points

 

Panthers might swap Bobrovsky for Price ... but that doesn't really solve anything ... Warm weather and no state tax might tempt Carey to waive his NTC but not certain Sergei wants to get colder and pay more taxes ... and would it solve anything?

 

Chronic fatigue can be a serious issue and it doesn't just have physical impacts, emotions and focus are also at issue ... habs should consider it and perhaps insist on an assessment

 

It is possible age has caught up but I think the physical skills are there, just impaired by whatever is happening between his ears.

I don't think I want "what about Bob" either. That's just trading problems and that WAS one of the stupidest contracts anyone has given to a goalie, but than Talon generally has been one of the kings of handing out stupid contracts.

[johnnyhasbeen]

Fourth goal and lack of effort on his part, or second effort that should be did me in on the Price wagon. We need to take a chance, It's PRIMEau Time! Time to see what the future can do, teamed with Allen if he succeeds. I don't think anyone picks up Prices contract on waivers to be honest. If they do, we are off the hook. His play is anything but off the hook.

[tomh009]

I don't think that's going to happen. The most likely scenario is Allen taking more starts as long as he is outperforming Price.

[GHT120]

2 minutes ago, johnnyhasbeen said:

Fourth goal and lack of effort on his part, or second effort that should be did me in on the Price wagon. We need to take a chance, It's PRIMEau Time! Time to see what the future can do, teamed with Allen if he succeeds. I don't think anyone picks up Prices contract on waivers to be honest. If they do, we are off the hook. His play is anything but off the hook.

Nobody would pick him up on waivers (IMO) ... but if he needs time to "get his head straight", and he agreed to be waived (he has a NMC), then the taxi squad might give him the opportunity to do so ...  AND ... it would give the Habs the cap space to be able to bring up Primeau for a few games as they would be saving $1.075 on the cap ... hopefully Carey could get things straightened out as I think the habs would be best with a steady Price pairing with Allen.

 

But I think it is too soon to expect Primeau to share the load for the rest of the season

[Habsfan89]

When we started this retool we should of traded away Price, Weber and Petry, and rebuild this the right way. But we didn't and did a retool, but the retool is over and we're in win now mold.  These guys aren't going anywhere now especially Price and Weber, and especially with Bergevin as our GM. 

  This year is a wash to get the players to learn a new system.  So other than a Danault and/or Tatar trade don't expect anything over the top to happen. 

[dlbalr]

2 hours ago, johnnyhasbeen said:

Fourth goal and lack of effort on his part, or second effort that should be did me in on the Price wagon. We need to take a chance, It's PRIMEau Time! Time to see what the future can do, teamed with Allen if he succeeds. I don't think anyone picks up Prices contract on waivers to be honest. If they do, we are off the hook. His play is anything but off the hook.

 

The AAV notwithstanding, the NMC prohibits him from being waived.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

This doesn’t mean Price is out for a while just that Allen is starting tomorrow. It also doesn’t mean that Price won’t be out for a bit