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Into the Abyss: the Carey Price debate


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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

How do you get Carey back to playing well by sitting him on the bench though?  Its the catch-22.  maybe you give him a week to get his head straight, but after that he needs to play close to half the games to get in a rhythm too.

I don't think you can just say take a week and then jump back in ... if a player pulls a muscles he meets with doctors and trainers and they are the ones that clear him for return to play, not the player ... metaphorically Price has pulled something in his ego/confidence/concentration/etc.  ... Habs have a sports psychologist consultant ... Dr. Scott needs to meet with Price and advise MB and DD on how to proceed ... loop in Dr. Mulder as well if necessary

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2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


I believe Price is working hard as hell to fix this and I trust him to work it out. 
 

He does not enjoy this at all and I think he takes it very seriously. 

 

I don't doubt that.

 

The refusal to see a sports psychologist is unfortunate, however - and borderline unprofessional. He is playing like absolute dogsh*t and getting paid a king's ransom; it behooves him to turn every stone in order to find his way out of it.

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3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I believe Price is working hard as hell to fix this and I trust him to work it out. 
He does not enjoy this at all and I think he takes it very seriously. 

Few if anybody doubts he is working hard ... but I'm not certain "hard work" is the solution for issues of ego/confidence/concentration/etc. ... I don't think his problems are technical ... a sports psychologist is to his current issues as a doctor would be to a muscle tear.

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21 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I don't doubt that.

 

The refusal to see a sports psychologist is unfortunate, however - and borderline unprofessional. He is playing like absolute dogsh*t and getting paid a king's ransom; it behooves him to turn every stone in order to find his way out of it.

 

Considering the source is sketchy at best, I wouldn't say he has refused to see one.

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I also don’t think it’s absolutely necessary that he sees one. The only issue I’ve seen with Price over his career has been the reality that he is overly calm. Now people are looking at him through a microscope and analyzing his every “angered” reaction as he lets the puck get by him, similar to the reaction that every goalie has when they let in a goal that they’d like to have back.

 

I’m not denying that Price’s level has dropped, but I’m not convinced a sports psychologist is the solution. Of course if the team would suggest it to him, that’s a different story, but I don’t personally see the need for it and an in no way convinced that they have.

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Goaltending is 80% mental, and 20% in your head. 😁

 

Seriously, I don't see any signs that he has lost any of his technical skills. He has made some awesome saves, and has played a few really good games. But he has also let in too many stinkers, and lacks consistency. And that points to him having to address the mental aspect, whether with the help of a sports psychologist or otherwise.

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IF Price is refusing to see a sports psychologist, that is condemnable, for at least two reasons:

 

1. It means that for some reason, he is refusing use all available resources to be the best player he can. (Note that his current slump is not unique; it is an intensified version of a pattern he has developed over the previous three seasons. This suggests something deeper is going on that a mere ‘bad patch’).

 

2. It suggests that he sees some sort of stigma involved in seeing a sports psychologist - precisely the kind of stigma around mental health issues that we need to overcome. 

 

I’m not impressed.

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3 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I also don’t think it’s absolutely necessary that he sees one. The only issue I’ve seen with Price over his career has been the reality that he is overly calm. Now people are looking at him through a microscope and analyzing his every “angered” reaction as he lets the puck get by him, similar to the reaction that every goalie has when they let in a goal that they’d like to have back.

 

I’m not denying that Price’s level has dropped, but I’m not convinced a sports psychologist is the solution. Of course if the team would suggest it to him, that’s a different story, but I don’t personally see the need for it and an in no way convinced that they have.

 

Price has slumped before and has come out of slumps before.  If he feels that he is better off working through this with his coaches, on his own, with his own supports, then seeing someone new as a sports psychologist, you need to trust your goalie to know his body/mind better than anyone else.

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6 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Goaltending is 80% mental, and 20% in your head. 😁

 

Seriously, I don't see any signs that he has lost any of his technical skills. He has made some awesome saves, and has played a few really good games. But he has also let in too many stinkers, and lacks consistency. And that points to him having to address the mental aspect, whether with the help of a sports psychologist or otherwise.

You’re not looking for any signs. I wouldn’t necessarily say he has “lost” his skills, but I have seen plenty of situations where he has  struggled technically.

 

I have seen goals go high glove side, where his glove was prepared very low.

 

I have seen pucks go through his legs, where his stick was simply not on the ice protecting the five hole. 
 

I have seen situations where he’s down on his knees way too soon.

 

Now, these are all areas that I’ve seen other goalies make errors with as well. It is also not my intention to suggest that Price is weak technically. However I don’t know how one can possibly say that these technical mistakes and lack of consistency are a clear indicator that he needs to see a sports psychologist. If that’s the case, he’s not the only goalie who needs to.

 

In fact, I’m not even sure what the point in bold is, because there is a connection between technical and mental aspects, so surely he has had some technical problems during his struggles. 

 

I almost think the suggestion that he needs to see a sports psychologist to be ridiculous.
 

I am a Price supporter, and likely always will be. With that being said, I think the narratives that people are trying to come up with are just that. There are a few people who have the assumption that Price is having mental issues, and then they simply look for any signs to confirm this bias.

 

It wasn’t long ago that people were writing up the opposite story about how “cool, calm, and collected” Price was during his reign of terror. I also don’t think that that narrative was written in stone either. Just something that nobody that actually knew him would say.

 

* I make this whole post with my own assumption that it is possible that something like “family life” has had an impact on his game. 
 

** I also make this post all the while giving zero credibility to the most recent link shared on the topic.... which alleges that he refuses to see a sports psychologist.

 

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3 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Price has slumped before and has come out of slumps before.  If he feels that he is better off working through this with his coaches, on his own, with his own supports, then seeing someone new as a sports psychologist, you need to trust your goalie to know his body/mind better than anyone else.

In this case, I certainly agree, and I also have the belief that Price will be fine this season. We’re in March, so our circadian clock would be used to getting into the playoff push. However, there is still plenty of time this season, and Price will come out on top. 

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Price has made mistakes, that's certain. But I believe that this really points to (mental) errors rather than losing his quickness, agility or other skills. And I believe he's got to work through the mental aspect, whether he does that on his own or with appropriate assistance.

 

This is just my perspective as a beer-league goalie. 😁

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1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

... However I don’t know how one can possibly say that these technical mistakes and lack of consistency are a clear indicator that he needs to see a sports psychologist. If that’s the case, he’s not the only goalie who needs to ... There are a few people who have the assumption that Price is having mental issues, and then they simply look for any signs to confirm this bias ...

I think that "mental issues" is a bit strong ... it includes all sorts of clinical issues, that I for one am not trying to suggest as a possibility ... my argument is that any technical issues arise from a lack of focus/concentration/confidence ... that is right up the alley of a sports psychologist ... the last few seasons this seems to happen every year for a period ... just feel that perhaps figuring out the cause instead of just "working through" the current occurrence would be more useful.

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2 hours ago, GHT120 said:

I think that "mental issues" is a bit strong ... it includes all sorts of clinical issues, that I for one am not trying to suggest as a possibility ... my argument is that any technical issues arise from a lack of focus/concentration/confidence ... that is right up the alley of a sports psychologist ... the last few seasons this seems to happen every year for a period ... just feel that perhaps figuring out the cause instead of just "working through" the current occurrence would be more useful.

Sports psychologists role is to deal with confidence issues and staying focused and positive when you are struggling. If there were any more SERIOUS mental health issues, I think they would fall out of the role of the team sports psychologist’s purvey and those type of issues would be confidentially dealt with.

 

I think it’s reasonable for the team to request ALL of their players meet with the team sports psychologist to deal with concentration/confidence/ focus, just as they would have a player receive treatment from a sports medicine doctor, trainer or physical therapist to deal with physical injuries related to their ability, or capability to perform  (as opposed to a physician for MORE serious health issues). While a player You would not expect a player to have to disclose more serious health, or mental health issues. 
 

I don’t think their is any stigma attached to seeing a sports psychologist- I would think all players have to meet them at some point. For more serious issues - which I don’t honk anyone is suggesting is the case with Price, it would be confidential as part of the collective bargaining agreement and any other employment contract (as would other health issues).  Hell, no one even knew Chadwick Boseman was battling colon cancer while he was filming!

I think the whole refusing to see a sports psychologist is the usual Montreal media creating a story. This is the same idiotic sports media market where photographers snuck into the hospital to take photos with a flash of Koivu after he had just got eye surgery. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Price should start the next game and if he plays well again then he should play more than Allen. 
 

The best thing for this team would be for Price to get back on his game. 
 

Let him play 

Can't disagree ... 

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7 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

 

 

Seems to fit my sense that MB's moves since last season ended have been earn an extension of his contract ... clearly he feels if this season is not a success he isn't getting an extension and that likely means he is gone as a lame duck GM is rarely a good thing for a team ... what Molson (and its his opinion that matters in terms of MB's extension) would consider a successful season only he and maybe  MB would know. 

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Waite also told TSN690 this afternoon that while Carey isn't injured he isn't 100% ... he noted that Price has had a history of some significant injuries and that as a result he suffers stiffness, which I might take to mean long-term limitations on his flexibility, and that he needs to learn to play within those new parameters ... hopefully Carey is willing to make the necessary changes

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15 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Waite also told TSN690 this afternoon that while Carey isn't injured he isn't 100% ... he noted that Price has had a history of some significant injuries and that as a result he suffers stiffness, which I might take to mean long-term limitations on his flexibility, and that he needs to learn to play within those new parameters ... hopefully Carey is willing to make the necessary changes

 

Oy vey. That's not so hot. It doesn’t seem to bode well for his aging gracefully.

 

16 hours ago, GHT120 said:

 

Seems to fit my sense that MB's moves since last season ended have been earn an extension of his contract ... clearly he feels if this season is not a success he isn't getting an extension and that likely means he is gone as a lame duck GM is rarely a good thing for a team ... what Molson (and its his opinion that matters in terms of MB's extension) would consider a successful season only he and maybe  MB would know. 

 

Part of me is encouraged MB is feeling that way. It seems to me that Molson has been quite patient with his GM, watching as the 2014-15 team disintegrated without accomplishing anything, riding out 4-5 years of suckage, and now finally demanding results. Now it would be ironic if MB got canned after an off-season in which he finally addressed a raft of longstanding problems...but at some point, the team has to deliver the goods.

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