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Pre-Expansion Draft Discussion


Trizzak

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1 hour ago, Trizzak said:

He would be the best player available in the entire draft, so of course they would. 

Yeah - and his contract is also movable. Weber doesn’t had NTC, so that’s who I would expose. Can try to also move him before the draft, but can’t see anyone taking his full salary without retention. Seattle could and trade him with retention if they pick him. Also would allow us to keep Allen.

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

Define a good GM?  MB has been brutal in the wins / Loss and making the playoffs. Which i think being a good GM is all about. It's not a popularity contest.

You tell me who is going to do better (as directed by Molson), is available and speaks French. I am expecting a rather short list.

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If your asking me, the GM doesn;t need to be french. 

 

A monkey can flip a quarter and be 50% of the time, That is MB playoff run. 

 

because i can;t name a french guy the Habs need to continue to be mediocre?

 

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. 

 

 

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Just now, Chris said:

If your asking me, the GM doesn;t need to be french. 

 

A monkey can flip a quarter and be 50% of the time, That is MB playoff run. 

 

because i can;t name a french guy the Habs need to continue to be mediocre?

 

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Molson won't ask you. Or me.

 

And if you think a monkey flipping a coin will produce a better result than Bergevin, I don't think there is any point in me trying to discuss this with you.

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9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Bergevin had a 5/5 offseason.

 

Allen

Edmundson

Anderson

Toffoli

Perry

 

How are you gonna fire him after that?

 

Let him keep building.

 

A successful GM is not judged by a scorecard ... they are measured by a team's success ... MB's fate will depend on what happens in the playoffs ... time will tell

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2 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

A successful GM is not judged by a scorecard ... they are measured by a team's success ... MB's fate will depend on what happens in the playoffs ... time will tell

No, it doesn't. His popularity may depend on that. But his fate depends solely on Geoff Molson.

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3 hours ago, Chris said:

Define a good GM?  MB has been brutal in the wins / Loss and making the playoffs. Which i think being a good GM is all about. It's not a popularity contest. 

 

He was gifted a playoff run last year with the 5th worst team 

 

 

 

 


Good GM:

1. Manages the cap

2. Provides a competitive bunch of players to the coaching staff

3. hires good coaches that use the players he signed to win more often than not

4. Hires good scouts and a smart amateur talent evaluator to give him a good list of draft picks year after year

5. Makes timely and decisive decisions on player personnel 

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35 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

A successful GM is not judged by a scorecard ... they are measured by a team's success ... MB's fate will depend on what happens in the playoffs ... time will tell

 

This team is better than last years club.  Maybe the gap isnt as big as we'd like but they are improving.

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45 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:


Good GM:

1. Manages the cap

2. Provides a competitive bunch of players to the coaching staff

3. hires good coaches that use the players he signed to win more often than not

4. Hires good scouts and a smart amateur talent evaluator to give him a good list of draft picks year after year

5. Makes timely and decisive decisions on player personnel 

I thought it was simpler. A good GM is one that creates a winning teams that is consistently is a playoff team.

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48 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

This team is better than last years club.  Maybe the gap isnt as big as we'd like but they are improving.

The same thing was said in 2015 and 2018. In between the yo-yo dips have been much worse and lasted longer than the peaks.

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2 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I thought it was simpler. A good GM is one that creates a winning teams that is consistently is a playoff team.

 

Hard to argue with that. A good GM builds something sustainable, a team that is competitive year in and year out, occasionally taking a swing for the fences by getting that player that can make a difference when they are close. 

 

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49 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The same thing was said in 2015 and 2018. In between the yo-yo dips have been much worse and lasted longer than the peaks.


since 1993 , I believe

 

my point is that the on-ice results are on the coach and players 

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:


since 1993 , I believe

 

my point is that the on-ice results are on the coach and players 

Ah no. It’s up to the GM to make sure he assembles the right players and coaches. Therrien was and is a horrible coach and will probably never be a head coach again. Lefebve was absolutely useless developing players, yet he had a job forever. MB did a good job adding scoring on the wing this summer - probably his best off-season, but he really didn’t address his biggest areas of needs. We really needed to add a top pairing dman - which was not addressed. Instead we continued to stockpile bottom pairing and 7th/8th depth dmen. Which would be a great strategy - if we had a solid top 4. You build the foundation of a house first. You don’t start looking for baseboards.

 

you also can’t rely on two young players to be your top centres. You can HOPE they are ready, but it’s on the GM that your top two centres aren’t ready for the role and no, I’ve never considered Danault as a top line centre - the production has not been there. I really don’t care what his 5 on 5 production stats are. His points totals say he is not a top line centres. Top line centres provide PP production. Bergeron is a selke trophy winner who’s had 70 and 80 point seasons.

we keep hearing how hard it is to trade for a top centre or top dman - yet other teams manage to do it.  
 

IF the GM’s obvious strategy was not HOPING two young centres were ready and HOPING that Romanov would be a top 4 dman in his first NHL season after basically pretty much sitting for over 6 months, AND he had actually gone out and got a top dman and a legit proven centre. Than I agree, it’s up to the coaching staff and players. MB has been in charge for almost 10 years. He’s hired his own NHL coaching staff all three coaches this team has had. He’s hired his own minor league staff. Yet we are like a pump and dump stock. Not really much real value, a lot of rhetoric about having the mountain man leader and blood and guts guys. But like a pump and dump stock, despite trying to make Roseanne Barr out to be Angelina Jolie. We are have just Roseanne Barrs. When we finally try to get a Jolie, it is the 45 year old Jolie, not the smoking hot 25 year old!

 

So I disagree. The GM assembled the team. It’s his coaching staff. He signed, resigned and/or traded for every player on this team. It’s on him.

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Bergevin has had 10 years and despite a great off season this team still stinks. 
 

How many years should we give him? 
 

This organization is 100% a Ballard era managed team. We are not serious about winning and won’t be until Molson sells. 
 

Canadiens were once a team that refused to accept losing now it’s just another day. 

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5 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

@hab29RETIRED you made your point; so, tell me, who is this incredible GM that will come in this summer and do a better job than MB?

 

 

I’d go after Mark Hunter. Yes he doesn’t speak French. He can hire an assistant.

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’d go after Mark Hunter. Yes he doesn’t speak French. He can hire an assistant.

Wouldn’t MH be MB_V2.0 ?

 

no experience , good track record in a lesser role, former player ?

 

What is the guaranty that he is a sure fire improvement ?

can he bring a cup in 2022?

 

or will he be going in a 5 year plan laden in misery and losing records ? 

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1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said:

or will he be going in a 5 year plan laden in misery and losing records ? 

Many are high on Yzerman as GM and he seems a smarter one, but in 7-8 or so years in TB, he had zero cups.

So, should that be considered a poor job done?

Not saying Bergevin hasnt had some royal screw ups, every GM seems to have a few 'miscalculations' and just it isnt that easy to win a cup with #of teams in a cap world.

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4 minutes ago, DON said:

Many are high on Yzerman as GM and he seems a smarter one, but in 7-8 or so years in TB, he had zero cups.

So, should that be considered a poor job done?

Not saying Bergevin hasnt had some royal screw ups, every GM seems to have a few 'miscalculations' and just it isnt that easy to win a cup with #of teams in a cap world.

Yzerman was GM for 8 seasons ... the TBL had over 100 points 4 times, over 90 twice and twice in the 80s ... he built the "foundation and framing" of the team that won the Cup ... Brisebois did an excellent job of "completing construction, with some tweaks" ... both service credit.

 

I hope nobody thinks it is easy to win a Cup, I certainly don't ... but MB blew it (IMO) when he had Price and Weber at near their best and failed to see the need for immediate moves to take advantage ... instead he waited until "the roof was leaking and the foundation had cracks" before deciding serious renovations were in order ... 

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8 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

@hab29RETIRED you made your point; so, tell me, who is this incredible GM that will come in this summer and do a better job than MB?

 

So until Sam Pollock is reincarnated they should stick with Bergevin because who knows if the next guy will be better?

 

If the habs do well in them playoffs then MB deserves his extension, if not he deserves to be replaced (IMO)

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13 hours ago, tomh009 said:

No, it doesn't. His popularity may depend on that. But his fate depends solely on Geoff Molson.

 

And on what basis will Molson base his decision?   Not popularity (although sadly that may play a small role) but the results that Bergevin has delivered ... Molson OK'd some serious spending (which is great) but if doesn't produce the results Molson expected than MB is more than likely in trouble ... and I doubt just making the playoffs is the standard ... in fact, before the season was the first time in a long time I recall them not setting (to paraphrase) "first you have to make the playoffs, and then we'll see" as the expectation.

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17 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

So until Sam Pollock is reincarnated they should stick with Bergevin because who knows if the next guy will be better?

 

If the habs do well in them playoffs then MB deserves his extension, if not he deserves to be replaced (IMO)

 

No need to butt-in in my question to @hab29RETIRED to take a jab at me. I asked a simple question: who is this unicorn GM that will come in to do a better job than MB ?

 

I am not defending MB (that is another thread), I am just asking who is this other person who is better (just better, not soooo much better) than MB ?

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