Paul Rosies Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Is it just me but there absolutely is no urgency in the Habs game. Why did this coach not play Lekhonen in the game where it was Montreal’s 3rd in 4 nights. Fresh legs would certainly have helped. My 12 year old nephew knows this. This team has talent but since the coaching change has gone down hill. We also have to stop letting Carey Price choose what goaltender is going to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 How many more efforts like this does it take for Molson to decide that either MB isn't allowed to make trades, as he would/could desperately overpay, or look to replace MB (no idea with who). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Putting Lehkonen in with fresh legs on the 4th line is a nothing move. The top 9 and top 4 dmen are the problem. if swapping 4th liners is the answer, your asking the wrong questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Danault, Tatar, Weber, and yes, even Gallagher all playing well below their traditional levels is MUCH more important than anything Lehkonen or Evans do. Price didn’t look stellar tonight but seems to have been rounding into form; yet his early-season flailing really did not help either. Struggling vets have been the story of the season. Thanks God we added Anderson and Toffoli, or this team would be a terrifyingly bad proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 12 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Danault, Tatar, Weber, and yes, even Gallagher all playing well below their traditional levels is MUCH more important than anything Lehkonen or Evans do. Price didn’t look stellar tonight but seems to have been rounding into form; yet his early-season flailing really did not help either. Struggling vets have been the story of the season. Thanks God we added Anderson and Toffoli, or this team would be a terrifyingly bad proposition. VERY true ... and, beyond this season, Weber and Gallagher's performances are the most problematic most in so much as they carry a $7,857,143 and $6.5M cap hit for the next 5 and 6 seasons respectively ... if Danault and Tartar don't pick up their games they will either be cheap to re-sign or they are: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corn-why-eh Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 If its true that Price decides who plays net - then that in its own right is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Different coaching staff time and time again, different players time and time.... But same results time and time again. What gives with this organization Here's a question is Bergevin bring in the wrong players to run his style of play or is he bring in the wrong coaching staff to run his style? Or the 3rd option is Bergevin style the wrong style for today's NHL? Or have we just gotten so use to losing that we have turned into buffalo ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said: Different coaching staff time and time again, different players time and time.... But same results time and time again. What gives with this organization Here's a question is Bergevin bring in the wrong players to run his style of play or is he bring in the wrong coaching staff to run his style? Or the 3rd option is Bergevin style the wrong style for today's NHL? Or have we just gotten so use to losing that we have turned into buffalo ? I was honestly pondering if there is a 4th problem being that they are all French? I have nothing against Francophones, my point is they were all highly influenced by the 60's and 70's Habs. It seems like they were all trying to recreate that era and style of play. ex: MB, CJ, + JM, MT etc (and even non French BG) - all of their mindsets and views on the game aren't very different from each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 If our vets were playing to an expected level, this team would be doing much better. We have a winning team here but the vets are underperforming consistently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 15 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: If our vets were playing to an expected level, this team would be doing much better. We have a winning team here but the vets are underperforming consistently Yep. And of those vets, only Weber has the excuse of being just too old to perform at his expected level. I wonder whether the arrival of new impact players in Anderson and Toffoli upset the internal apple-cart - the hierarchy and culture in the leadership group. That’s one theory. The other is that the two main culprits, Tatar and Danault, have their noses out of joint because they’re in contract years, which is about as “loser” a mindset as I can imagine in a pro athlete. It’s interesting to note that all of MB’s off-season additions - Allen, Anderson, Toffoli, Edmunson, Perry - have been home-runs. Seen from that POV, the GM more than did his job this off-season; he absolutely crushed it. The problem is the guys he assembled over the previous few years. They’re dropping the ball in a big, big way. And (he said angrily) it really doesn’t say much for them if they manage to f**k up the only real chance they’ve had at being part of a serious team here in Montreal. Almost makes you wonder if they are more comfortable, ultimately, with mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 39 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Yep. And of those vets, only Weber has the excuse of being just too old to perform at his expected level. I wonder whether the arrival of new impact players in Anderson and Toffoli upset the internal apple-cart - the hierarchy and culture in the leadership group. That’s one theory. The other is that the two main culprits, Tatar and Danault, have their noses out of joint because they’re in contract years, which is about as “loser” a mindset as I can imagine in a pro athlete. It’s interesting to note that all of MB’s off-season additions - Allen, Anderson, Toffoli, Edmunson, Perry - have been home-runs. Seen from that POV, the GM more than did his job this off-season; he absolutely crushed it. The problem is the guys he assembled over the previous few years. They’re dropping the ball in a big, big way. And (he said angrily) it really doesn’t say much for them if they manage to f**k up the only real chance they’ve had at being part of a serious team here in Montreal. Almost makes you wonder if they are more comfortable, ultimately, with mediocrity. I was also thinking that if it weren’t for the new additions and their great performance, this team would be comfortably in last place. I guess some hope remains. Price has rebounded and hopefully the other vets will too. The other consideration is that this team continues to perform like we always have - a bubble team that looks amazing at times and awful at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Darren Dreger (question starts around 4:15) feels that it looks like this this is a make-or-break season for Marc Bergevin *** if *** the season goes sideways. For that reason, I expect he will make a move for a legit LHD ... and now maybe also a something more than a 4th line centre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 22 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Darren Dreger (question starts around 4:15) feels that it looks like this this is a make-or-break season for Marc Bergevin *** if *** the season goes sideways. For that reason, I expect he will make a move for a legit LHD ... and now maybe also a something more than a 4th line centre I feel it in my bones that if we miss playoffs MB will be fired. Ironic for me because he has deserved to be canned for a long time but he has done a great job with this current roster. Who could have guessed that every single vet would be so awful? I also think MB is well aware his job is in danger and that might lead to a very costly acquisition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Just now, Prime Minister Koivu said: I feel it in my bones that if we miss playoffs MB will be fired. Ironic for me because he has deserved to be canned for a long time but he has done a great job with this current roster. Who could have guessed that every single vet would be so awful? I also think MB is well aware his job is in danger and that might lead to a very costly acquisition. Stephane Waite's interview pretty much confirmed to my mind that MB feels his neck is on the block this season. Clearly, Molson's agreement with the "retool" plan was provisional on results within a certain window. And yes, GMs who feel their job is on the line are indeed the ones most prone to making moves for short-term gain which sacrifice longer-term assets. Look out, Caulfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Who would have guessed the vets would be so awful this year? They were the 5th worst team in the league last year. They have have missed the playoffs 4 out of the last 6 years. i am not counting last year as making the playoffs, that was a gift from the nhl. The 5th worst team in the league has no business in the playoffs. The real question is why does anyone think the vets, MB, scouting department coaches have a clue how to win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 28 minutes ago, Chris said: Who would have guessed the vets would be so awful this year? They were the 5th worst team in the league last year. They have have missed the playoffs 4 out of the last 6 years. i am not counting last year as making the playoffs, that was a gift from the nhl. The 5th worst team in the league has no business in the playoffs. The real question is why does anyone think the vets, MB, scouting department coaches have a clue how to win? If our vets performed equal to last year this team would be fighting for first. MB added key pieces and all new additions are playing great. Tatar went from leading scorer to crap Danault went from a 50-60 point guy to crap Price went from good to crap Weber went from good to real crap Gallagher isn’t where he should be We should be much better than we are 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Maybe just maybe MB is clueless, drafting dept is poor and the choice of coaches is always wrong. Every year its excuse after excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 12 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: If our vets performed equal to last year this team would be fighting for first. MB added key pieces and all new additions are playing great. Tatar went from leading scorer to crap Danault went from a 50-60 point guy to crap Price went from good to crap Weber went from good to real crap Gallagher isn’t where he should be We should be much better than we are The thing with Weber is that he has always been an effective power play scorer. With Petry having supplanted him, this has taken a little bit from his overall performance. One can tell me how slow footed he looks, and he has been on for his fair share of goals against this year, but speed or mobility were never his forte. He still is 18th amongst defensemen in power play scoring, and it will only take a few games for him to turn around his “crap season” into another steady one that turns out to be close to his career averages. I also want to note that it’s ironic that people in the past were sick of our “obvious” power play tactic, where Weber would blast it off in “predictable” fashion. Now that we don’t see it as much, people are claiming that Weber has fallen off (I know, they’ll point to some defensive areas as well). Personally, I loved the strategy even when it was obvious because it would still instil fear in the opponent, who had to break a bone in order to save a potential shot on goal. At the same time and somewhat contrary to this, I also personally have no issue with Weber ageing, and not being the go to guy, but rather a veteran secondary piece who is great to have on the squad. It seems as though people will start to complain about Weber as soon as he is no longer our best player, (currently happening). I see this as a great thing, though. The best Stanley Cup teams all have former greats who now fill a secondary leadership role. For that reason, it’s imperative that we have a player like him on the squad, even in the future as he continues to regress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 While I believe that Weber's point shot has been both less accurate and less powerful this season than in the past - that's part of his regression - my main criticism of him this season is that he is simply overwhelmed in the D-zone more frequently than in the past. In other words, the concern about him is not primarily about his offensive production. I have no problem with keeping him around as an aging, declining Leader, but the point is that we can't expect him to eat minutes like he used to, and the team does not have an adequate replacement for those minutes or for the role he used to play as #1/#1A defenceman. That's why his decline poses a structural problem for the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 54 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: The thing with Weber is that he has always been an effective power play scorer. With Petry having supplanted him, this has taken a little bit from his overall performance. One can tell me how slow footed he looks, and he has been on for his fair share of goals against this year, but speed or mobility were never his forte. He still is 18th amongst defensemen in power play scoring, and it will only take a few games for him to turn around his “crap season” into another steady one that turns out to be close to his career averages. I also want to note that it’s ironic that people in the past were sick of our “obvious” power play tactic, where Weber would blast it off in “predictable” fashion. Now that we don’t see it as much, people are claiming that Weber has fallen off (I know, they’ll point to some defensive areas as well). Personally, I loved the strategy even when it was obvious because it would still instil fear in the opponent, who had to break a bone in order to save a potential shot on goal. At the same time and somewhat contrary to this, I also personally have no issue with Weber ageing, and not being the go to guy, but rather a veteran secondary piece who is great to have on the squad. It seems as though people will start to complain about Weber as soon as he is no longer our best player, (currently happening). I see this as a great thing, though. The best Stanley Cup teams all have former greats who now fill a secondary leadership role. For that reason, it’s imperative that we have a player like him on the squad, even in the future as he continues to regress. 26 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: While I believe that Weber's point shot has been both less accurate and less powerful this season than in the past - that's part of his regression - my main criticism of him this season is that he is simply overwhelmed in the D-zone more frequently than in the past. In other words, the concern about him is not primarily about his offensive production. I have no problem with keeping him around as an aging, declining Leader, but the point is that we can't expect him to eat minutes like he used to, and the team does not have an adequate replacement for those minutes or for the role he used to play as #1/#1A defenceman. That's why his decline poses a structural problem for the organization. Weber is still valuable and still does great things but he is at the place in his career where he should be used like Perry. A veteran secondary piece but he is used as the key cog. Peel his minutes back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: While I believe that Weber's point shot has been both less accurate and less powerful this season than in the past - that's part of his regression - my main criticism of him this season is that he is simply overwhelmed in the D-zone more frequently than in the past. In other words, the concern about him is not primarily about his offensive production. I have no problem with keeping him around as an aging, declining Leader, but the point is that we can't expect him to eat minutes like he used to, and the team does not have an adequate replacement for those minutes or for the role he used to play as #1/#1A defenceman. That's why his decline poses a structural problem for the organization. It’s not my place to say that Weber can be replaced, but it can be done by committee. Petry right now should be a Norris candidate, and someone like Fleury, who was coincidentally put down earlier can bring a physical presence in the defensive zone. I also think it’s possible that Weber recovers this very season. It’s just as plausible as any outcome. That being said, I’m all for acquiring a top pairing caliber defenceman, needless to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 I was going over player stats before the Winnipeg game (March 17) and I do not know how to read this: * Is Perry awesome and Armia sucking ? * Should Armia get more recognition ? * Is a 15 goal pace for Armia sufficient to earn him more playing time and an extension ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Both Armia and Perry are bottom-6 FWs. I like both, but I have to say that Perry makes more out of his minutes, shift by shift, than Armia does. Perry almost always does something clever or interesting out there. He has been surprisingly impressive and his value to the team seems to be increasing as the season grinds on. Armia is invisible on a lot of shifts - and remember that his numbers can be argued to be inflated by that big 4-point night in Van. But as long as you don’t expect him to be more than a 3rd line grinder, Armia is a useful player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Both Armia and Perry are bottom-6 FWs. I like both, but I have to say that Perry makes more out of his minutes, shift by shift, than Armia does. Perry almost always does something clever or interesting out there. He has been surprisingly impressive and his value to the team seems to be increasing as the season grinds on. Armia is invisible on a lot of shifts - and remember that his numbers can be argued to be inflated by that big 4-point night in Van. But as long as you don’t expect him to be more than a 3rd line grinder, Armia is a useful player. It was obvious in last night's game that Dom valued more Perry than Armia when trying to get a goal. And Perry delivered, where Armia would have dumped, chased, held the puck against the boards and then changed lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 15 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: I was going over player stats before the Winnipeg game (March 17) and I do not know how to read this: * Is Perry awesome and Armia sucking ? * Should Armia get more recognition ? * Is a 15 goal pace for Armia sufficient to earn him more playing time and an extension ? 20-goal pace for a normal season, for both of them (and also for Tatar). Tatar $4.8M, Armia $2.6M, Perry $0.75M. Clearly Perry is providing the best value of the three, and Tatar the worst. My biggest concern is whether Perry's performance is sustainable, given his age. I expect Tatar to be gone. Perry would be a good choice if he is willing to re-sign at another reasonable cap hit. Armia? Maybe, depending on who else we will have in the lineup, and how much he would be looking for. If we were to trade Lehkonen, for example, I think we would want to keep Armia, who is also useful on PK (he's fifth on PK time, behind Danault, Evans, Byron and Lehkonen -- how many of them will be here next year?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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