Should Habs get an experienced RD and pay the price

[Habs44]

I think if the Habs are all in they need to get a talented experienced Rd and be ready to pay the price for cap space and talent.

I think they should be thinking all -in this year and next year. In this case my first choice would be acquiring the following player: 

 

David Savard (30 yrs old) who has the balance of this year and next year at a $4,250 m cap hit Not sure if Columbus would be ready to give him up though.

He is a big mobile guy and usually plays against the best opposing forwards

 

I would first trade Lekonen or Armia for a pick (3rd or 4th)  and free up space

Trade Biron for cap space and give a second round pick  4th round pick + pay 1 million on the cap this year and the next

For Savard give them a first round pick, a choice of  Struble or Harris plus a choice of Fleury or Mete. 

 

The other best option would be Vatanen RD, mobile but not big at 5'10'' and would cost less

Then there is Hamonic a RD who would be a better than Mete to replace an injured D . Since he will be a free agent hthey might take Mete and a 5 round pick?

 

So what are your thoughts?

[GHT120]

Assume you are looking to upgrade the 3rd pairing so they can take some pressure off Weber ... which IMO is a viable option in a top 4 LHD isn't an option

 

If Columbus is trading Savard then they would have given up on this season and might agree to retain some portion of DS's salary/cap-hit ... provided the "hockey trade" value is sweetened somewhat ... Hamonic would be a nice option (but he has missed time to injury this season ... is he healthy?) if Vancouver is looking to move him ... and as a 3rd pairing upgrade Vatanen would certainly be an option, and NJD have cap space so could be a one-stop trade partner (defenceman and move out a contract).

 

Given that Byron has two more years after this I have to wonder whether a 2nd and 4th would get it done as a contract dump ... and would hope that MB would not have to retain salary (but that admittedly comes at a price) ... unless, as he mentioned in the Zoom call, MB uses a third team paid off to retain 50% and Byron's final destination gets him for a $1.7 million cap hit ... but feels like that adds a layer of complexity.

 

 

[dlbalr]

I don't dislike the idea of adding a RD and Savard would make a lot of sense but your proposal costs the Habs Lehkonen (or Armia), Byron, a 1st, a 2nd, Struble/Harris and Fleury/Mete for a rental third-pairing defenceman while adding $1M in dead cap for two years (you can't pick and choose years to retain on by rule, it's for the remainder of the contract no matter what).  That's way too steep of a price to justify paying for someone whose role is going to be limited to the third pair and penalty kill.  If I'm moving that many future assets, I want someone that's going to be around for a while, not a rental. 

 

5 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Hamonic would be a nice option (but he has missed time to injury this season ... is he healthy?) if Vancouver is looking to move him ...

 

Hamonic has a NMC and from the sounds of it has zero intention of waiving it.  Maybe for Calgary/Edmonton but he deliberately limited himself to Western Canadian options in free agency.

[hab29RETIRED]

30 minutes ago, Habs44 said:

I think if the Habs are all in they need to get a talented experienced Rd and be ready to pay the price for cap space and talent.

I think they should be thinking all -in this year and next year. In this case my first choice would be acquiring the following player: 

 

David Savard (30 yrs old) who has the balance of this year and next year at a $4,250 m cap hit Not sure if Columbus would be ready to give him up though.

He is a big mobile guy and usually plays against the best opposing forwards

 

I would first trade Lekonen or Armia for a pick (3rd or 4th)  and free up space

Trade Biron for cap space and give a second round pick  4th round pick + pay 1 million on the cap this year and the next

For Savard give them a first round pick, a choice of  Struble or Harris plus a choice of Fleury or Mete. 

 

The other best option would be Vatanen RD, mobile but not big at 5'10'' and would cost less

Then there is Hamonic a RD who would be a better than Mete to replace an injured D . Since he will be a free agent hthey might take Mete and a 5 round pick?

 

So what are your thoughts?

I think we need a LD and not another RD - unless the plan is to move Weber for Savard.  

[Habs44]

4 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Assume you are looking to upgrade the 3rd pairing so they can take some pressure off Weber ... which IMO is a viable option in a top 4 LHD isn't an option

 

If Columbus is trading Savard then they would have given up on this season and might agree to retain some portion of DS's salary/cap-hit ... provided the "hockey trade" value is sweetened somewhat ... Hamonic would be a nice option (but he has missed time to injury this season ... is he healthy?) if Vancouver is looking to move him ... and as a 3rd pairing upgrade Vatanen would certainly be an option, and NJD have cap space so could be a one-stop trade partner (defenceman and move out a contract).

 

Given that Byron has two more years after this I have to wonder whether a 2nd and 4th would get it done as a contract dump ... and would hope that MB would not have to retain salary (but that admittedly comes at a price) ... unless, as he mentioned in the Zoom call, MB uses a third team paid off to retain 50% and Byron's final destination gets him for a $1.7 million cap hit ... but feels like that adds a layer of complexity.

 

 

Yes you guessed right, I want Savard to take some minutes away from Weber this year and the next. I like Savard because he is mobile but also big, so built for a long run. afraid vatanen would not do the trick. You are right about my offer for someone to take Biron is maybe a bit weak, but I would be ready to sweeten the pot to a second round pick and a 4th plus pay a million off his salrar for the rest of his contracty. For this though I would need a taker for lekonen or Armia which I think we can get a pick in return while also freeing up space

[Habs44]

5 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

I don't dislike the idea of adding a RD and Savard would make a lot of sense but your proposal costs the Habs Lehkonen (or Armia), Byron, a 1st, a 2nd, Struble/Harris and Fleury/Mete for a rental third-pairing defenceman while adding $1M in dead cap for two years (you can't pick and choose years to retain on by rule, it's for the remainder of the contract no matter what).  That's way too steep of a price to justify paying for someone whose role is going to be limited to the third pair and penalty kill.  If I'm moving that many future assets, I want someone that's going to be around for a while, not a rental. 

 

 

Hamonic has a NMC and from the sounds of it has zero intention of waiving it.  Maybe for Calgary/Edmonton but he deliberately limited himself to Western Canadian options in free agency.

Yes you are right about that. Too bad its not an option

[Habs44]

8 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

I don't dislike the idea of adding a RD and Savard would make a lot of sense but your proposal costs the Habs Lehkonen (or Armia), Byron, a 1st, a 2nd, Struble/Harris and Fleury/Mete for a rental third-pairing defenceman while adding $1M in dead cap for two years (you can't pick and choose years to retain on by rule, it's for the remainder of the contract no matter what).  That's way too steep of a price to justify paying for someone whose role is going to be limited to the third pair and penalty kill.  If I'm moving that many future assets, I want someone that's going to be around for a while, not a rental. 

 

 

Hamonic has a NMC and from the sounds of it has zero intention of waiving it.  Maybe for Calgary/Edmonton but he deliberately limited himself to Western Canadian options in free agency.

Yes it is a steep price for Savard but he is a top four Defensemen who can take some of Weber's minutes and is not a rental. Has another year. Built for a long run in the play-off Not crazyabout giving up Armia because he is another big body with skill built for a long run too.

If I am Columbus, I don't want a rebuild  so I need more than a first pick that is 4 years away to make an impact, I would want a youngster that can come no later than 1 year from now.

Ekholm  I agree would be a better fit for this year with a smaller cap hit (3.750) . He will still cost us a first and second round pick and a D prospect (Struble or Harris)  for a play off run. + getting rid of a salary (Lekonen) and asking Nashville to take a 1.275 m off Ekholm  alary

Would Colombus go for a similar deal?

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

According to cap-friendly Savard is a UFA after this year. Way too much to pay for a rental who is a solid player but not a difference maker.

[hab29RETIRED]

54 minutes ago, Habs44 said:

Yes you guessed right, I want Savard to take some minutes away from Weber this year and the next. I like Savard because he is mobile but also big, so built for a long run. afraid vatanen would not do the trick. You are right about my offer for someone to take Biron is maybe a bit weak, but I would be ready to sweeten the pot to a second round pick and a 4th plus pay a million off his salrar for the rest of his contracty. For this though I would need a taker for lekonen or Armia which I think we can get a pick in return while also freeing up space

Can we afford to pay around $19m for RD and leave LD as a black hole?

[dlbalr]

11 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

According to cap-friendly Savard is a UFA after this year. Way too much to pay for a rental who is a solid player but not a difference maker.

 

Yes, he is a UFA after the season.  It's really the only reason he's in trade speculation as if he had another year, Columbus wouldn't be trading him.

[tomh009]

34 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Yes, he is a UFA after the season.  It's really the only reason he's in trade speculation as if he had another year, Columbus wouldn't be trading him.

And, similarly, Bergevin could consider trading Armia since he’ll be a UFA as well — and we now have a lot of wingers — if that helps shore up the defence.

[GHT120]

13 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think we need a LD and not another RD - unless the plan is to move Weber for Savard.  

 

12 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Can we afford to pay around $19m for RD and leave LD as a black hole?

 

Since Savard is a pending UFA it is not a long-term plan or cap issue ... it is a matter of "THE POSSIBLE" for this season ... while ideally MB gets a top 4 quality, mobile LHD  to support Weber, if that is not possible then for the rest of this season a top 4 quality RHD to anchor the 3rd pairing and support Romanov allows DD & LR to lighten Weber's load a bit.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don’t get the emphasis on RD. Count me with Habs29 - it’s LD we desperately need. And if we can’t find one, I’m not sure about the wisdom of acquiring a RD instead, unless we feel confident the guy can play LD. A puck-moving LD would allow us to bump either Edmundson or Chiarot around and create some balanced pairs which combine a legit puck-mover with a lumbering behemoth (of which we have several). 

[GHT120]

13 hours ago, dlbalr said:

14 hours ago, GHT120 said:

... Hamonic would be a nice option (but he has missed time to injury this season ... is he healthy?) if Vancouver is looking to move him ...

Hamonic has a NMC and from the sounds of it has zero intention of waiving it.  Maybe for Calgary/Edmonton but he deliberately limited himself to Western Canadian options in free agency.

IMO Stall likely wouldn't have accepted a deal to the Habs in December, but things change ... when your current team is out of the playoffs and the opportunity to finish the season with a playoff team to which you can contribute and improve their playoff chances, a few months is different than a full season.

 

*** NOT *** saying, nor was I initially, that TH would accept a trade to Montreal ... but IMO it is an option worth exploring if it proves impossible to get the required LHD upgrade.

[DON]

RD-d upgrade, now? Dont they have bigger immediate needs, unless you figure Weber is toast this year? 

[GHT120]

14 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I don’t get the emphasis on RD. Count me with Habs29 - it’s LD we desperately need. And if we can’t find one, I’m not sure about the wisdom of acquiring a RD instead, unless we feel confident the guy can play LD. A puck-moving LD would allow us to bump either Edmundson or Chiarot around and create some balanced pairs which combine a legit puck-mover with a lumbering behemoth (of which we have several). 

 

5 minutes ago, DON said:

RD-d upgrade, now? Dont they have bigger immediate needs, unless you figure Weber is toast this year? 

While Habs44 did propose a RHD, *** IF *** the Habs cannot get the obviously required LHD upgrade then a top 4 RHD to play with Romanov deserves consideration IMO ... I would rather the Habs finish the year and enter the playoffs with a lopsided RHD trio than the current alignment.

 

But I agree it is not the optimal solution

[dlbalr]

20 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I don’t get the emphasis on RD. Count me with Habs29 - it’s LD we desperately need. And if we can’t find one, I’m not sure about the wisdom of acquiring a RD instead, unless we feel confident the guy can play LD. A puck-moving LD would allow us to bump either Edmundson or Chiarot around and create some balanced pairs which combine a legit puck-mover with a lumbering behemoth (of which we have several). 

 

I think the idea behind a RD upgrade is hedging against Weber being overused.  We're going to see a bunch of 3-in-4 situations down the stretch that are going to take a toll.  Petry can only play so much and with Romanov being the 3rd pairing RD, he can only handle so much.  Someone like Savard that is more of a second pairing guy that could play on the third and maybe take a couple of minutes from Weber would certainly help even if it doesn't solve the LD issue.

 

16 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

IMO Stall likely wouldn't have accepted a deal to the Habs in December, but things change ... when your current team is out of the playoffs and the opportunity to finish the season with a playoff team to which you can contribute and improve their playoff chances, a few months is different than a full season.

 

*** NOT *** saying, nor was I initially, that TH would accept a trade to Montreal ... but IMO it is an option worth exploring if it proves impossible to get the required LHD upgrade.

 

I think he'd help for sure but his reasoning for limiting himself to Western Canada goes back to his time with the Islanders.  It was mentioned on yesterday's HNIC broadcast that Carolina had shown interest in Hamonic but that Hamonic informed Vancouver that he will not waive his NMC.