GDT Apr. 10, Jets vs Habs, 7 PM

[alfredoh2009]

Must of us had a high expectations at the beginning of the season.

These expectations got a reality check that cost CJ and KM their jobs

 

Dom brought new ideas that seem to have improved the team, but the coaching change is not a replacement for good execution on the ice

 

MB made one trade without panicking and giving away prospects and picks, which would have saved his job. Staal is not the saviour and Caufield neither.

 

Team is underperforming but we are all passed because we know how good they can be. But to blame the coach and the GM is disingenuous: they are not the reason the team is not performing better, lack of elite talent is

[hab29RETIRED]

6 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Must of us had a high expectations at the beginning of the season.

These expectations got a reality check that cost CJ and KM their jobs

 

Dom brought new ideas that seem to have improved the team, but the coaching change is not a replacement for good execution on the ice

 

MB made one trade without panicking and giving away prospects and picks, which would have saved his job. Staal is not the saviour and Caufield neither.

 

Team is underperforming but we are all passed because we know how good they can be. But to blame the coach and the GM is disingenuous: they are not the reason the team is not performing better, lack of elite talent is

Who is responsible for acquiring and developing elite talent?  Who is responsible for the composition of the blue line? Who assembled a team that is AGAIN not performing ??!!  Who kept a bumbling useless idiot and childhood cronie in charge of AHL team and hen he clearly was a lousy Bergson for the job, and took a t least 3 or more years than required to replace him??

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Team plays like crap so who’s fault is it?

 

Bergevin because our defence is poorly constructed. 
 

Ducharme because our team does not show up sometimes. His record is no better than Julien’s. 
 

I expect a move to try and fix this. 
 

I also expect that if this continues and we miss the playoffs then Molson will clean house. 
 

Maybe McGuire or Roy for GM? How low can this team go?! Embarrassed enough for Molson to sell I hope. 

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Team plays like crap so who’s fault is it?

 

Bergevin because our defence is poorly constructed. 
 

Ducharme because our team does not show up sometimes. His record is no better than Julien’s. 
 

I expect a move to try and fix this. 
 

I also expect that if this continues and we miss the playoffs then Molson will clean house. 
 

Maybe McGuire or Roy for GM? How low can this team go?! Embarrassed enough for Molson to sell I hope. 

I hope you don’t get what you wish for
 

those are lousy choices 

[Chris]

Anyone is a better choice than MB at this point. he has proven time and again he has no idea how to ice a winning team, or develop young players. 

 

The only thing the habs have going for them is the flames are terrible, 6 points back i believe, the canucks cant play for another week or so. 

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

For all of our outrage, the team is still very solidly in a playoff spot. So we should cool our jets a little. Lord knows I’ve had my differences with Bergevin, but I would appoint him GM into perpetuity before I hire Roy or Maguire.

 

As far as MB goes, he did a stellar job this summer. His real problem is the wider strategy of “retooling” when the only clear-cut elite talents in the organization are Price and Weber. This always raised the very real danger that the old guys would decline before the young guys could develop enough to be reliably impact players. And this is **exactly** what appears to be happening. 

 

Habs29 is right that the D needs an overhaul, but there are only so many moves you can make. MB was the busiest GM in the league over the summer and his moves were pretty much all winners. Rather than think in terms of reconstruction of the D, the “retool” philosophy calls for the addition of one more piece: a puck-moving LD. Many of us have been howling for that ever since Markov was thrown to the curb for no apparent reason. It’s one of those gaping roster holes that MB likes to sit on for years. He FINALLY filled the backup G position after about six years. The one remaining hole he needs to fill is LD. And he needs to frigging do it. 

 

If he does find one and that still doesn’t work, then the conversation should flip to other possibilities - whether rebuilding or firing the GM.

[Chris]

Calgary is 6 points back, 

 

The habs can;t score or play defense. If the Flames play well down the stretch, the habs are in trouble. 

 

Having a good offseason was good, it actually shows you how bad the other players he assembled actually are. 

 

Who really has had a really good year, Anderson, Tafolli, new guys, i think Petry has been pretty good, Edmonson was better than I expected. Gallagher was decent

 

Everyone else has been average to below average. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

22 minutes ago, Chris said:

Calgary is 6 points back, 

 

The habs can;t score or play defense. If the Flames play well down the stretch, the habs are in trouble. 

 

Having a good offseason was good, it actually shows you how bad the other players he assembled actually are. 

 

Who really has had a really good year, Anderson, Tafolli, new guys, i think Petry has been pretty good, Edmonson was better than I expected. Gallagher was decent

 

Everyone else has been average to below average. 

 

We also have three games in hand on the Flames, who are 2-8 in their last 10. I wouldn’t trade places with the Flames for anything.

 

Anguish over the playoffs is not a rational response to a 4-4 stretch. 

 

I agree that the pre-existing vets have generally disappointed this season except for Petry. Tatar and Danault have gotten better but were basically appalling for the first 25 games or so, ditto Price, and as I noted a while ago, even Gally was not really convincing for several weeks. Weber has been, y’know, 35 years old. Predictably, as Tatar, Danault, and Price improve, we’ve been hit with injuries and a guy like Drouin who, true to form, starts to disappoint. 

[hab29RETIRED]

3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Team plays like crap so who’s fault is it?

 

Bergevin because our defence is poorly constructed. 
 

Ducharme because our team does not show up sometimes. His record is no better than Julien’s. 
 

I expect a move to try and fix this. 
 

I also expect that if this continues and we miss the playoffs then Molson will clean house. 
 

Maybe McGuire or Roy for GM? How low can this team go?! Embarrassed enough for Molson to sell I hope. 

Not sure who is worse - “of the reservation” McGuire, or “let’s drive out and alienate the young superstars, because they’re makeup isn’t the same as mine” Roy.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

3 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Not sure who is worse - “of the reservation” McGuire, or “let’s drive out and alienate the young superstars, because they’re makeup isn’t the same as mine” Roy.

Both would be a complete disaster. It was the catalyst that drives Molson to sell. 
 

With our luck the next GM would be Therrien or Julien 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

For all of our outrage, the team is still very solidly in a playoff spot. So we should cool our jets a little. Lord knows I’ve had my differences with Bergevin, but I would appoint him GM into perpetuity before I hire Roy or Maguire.

 

As far as MB goes, he did a stellar job this summer. His real problem is the wider strategy of “retooling” when the only clear-cut elite talents in the organization are Price and Weber. This always raised the very real danger that the old guys would decline before the young guys could develop enough to be reliably impact players. And this is **exactly** what appears to be happening. 

 

Habs29 is right that the D needs an overhaul, but there are only so many moves you can make. MB was the busiest GM in the league over the summer and his moves were pretty much all winners. Rather than think in terms of reconstruction of the D, the “retool” philosophy calls for the addition of one more piece: a puck-moving LD. Many of us have been howling for that ever since Markov was thrown to the curb for no apparent reason. It’s one of those gaping roster holes that MB likes to sit on for years. He FINALLY filled the backup G position after about six years. The one remaining hole he needs to fill is LD. And he needs to frigging do it. 

 

If he does find one and that still doesn’t work, then the conversation should flip to other possibilities - whether rebuilding or firing the GM.

The issue is that if Weber is done like toast, the way h‘a looked lately (he’s actually looked worse than his partner at times), than a top pairing LD isn’t the only hole.

 

We are up 6 points and there is no way we should kiss the playoffs given how Calgary has played (last night was an outlier for the them). Even as bad as we have been with the games in hand and the point spread between us (that has steadily gone done with our recent play), we should be able to get th last spot. The challenge is that we are looking almost as bad as Calgary lately.

[GHT120]

14 hours ago, Habsfan89 said:

Hate to see where this team would be without the new guys. Think it's time to trade guys like lehkonen, Byron, Armia, and I would even trade Danault.

Not that I have an issue with trading Lehkonen, Byron or Armia ... trading two 4th liners and a 3rd liner won't fix what ails the Habs ... If the Habs were out of the playoffs I would trade Danault and almost anyone else over 25 in the right deal ... but with habs in playoffs PD is going nowhere

[GHT120]

13 hours ago, Trizzak said:

Perry cared too much and was sent to the dressing room. It didn't fit the lazy effort of the rest of the team so they had to get that influence out of there. I mean, good lord, someone might have even tried out there.

 

Perry was clearly in a mood that they feared he would do something stupid and get himself hurt and/or suspended ... the game was OVER by the time he could have returned to play

[alfredoh2009]

29 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The issue is that if Weber is done like toast, the way h‘a looked lately (he’s actually looked worse than his partner at times), than a top pairing LD isn’t the only hole.

 

We are up 6 points and there is no way we should kiss the playoffs given how Calgary has played (last night was an outlier for the them). Even as bad as we have been with the games in hand and the point spread between us (that has steadily gone done with our recent play), we should be able to get th last spot. The challenge is that we are looking almost as bad as Calgary lately.

I am fed up with the Weber bashing.

If you watched RDS the game before last, after the 1st period he (Guy Boucher) provided this analysis:

1. Biggest change by Dom is that D is not playing up but back; the third forward is now responsible to cover middle of ice and trailer on plays.

2. D are not aggressively defending anymore and are not using stretch pass to exit D zone

 

Rhe impact is that we play better against teams like Toronto but worse agains teams like Winnipeg 

 

Also, most goals are caused because third man (Forward) is missing defensive coverage
 

It sounded right when he showed video examples of the difference. He also showed his Weber and Edmundson are still playing very well but get exposed when the third man missed its assignment 

 

Anyways, I am no expert but that analysis reminded me that made me rethink my expectations of the team and reassess what I watch for during the games 

Edited April 11, 2021 by alfredoh2009
Added Guy Boucher’s name

[GHT120]

The fallout from last night's game

 

 

 

I would guess that ***if*** Armia is ready he slips in in beside TT&PD with  Byron taking Evans spot

 

Like the 4th line ... both Staal and Perry can get PP time and if moved up if needed ... but should do VERY well against other 4th lines and not leave the habs as overmatched if the 4th line is caught out against top lines ... it could even be a good spot for Caufield if/when he gets called up ... two vets physically capable of "protecting" CC if needed and talented enough to support his offence while Cole gets used to the NHL ... but pending Gallagher's return they still (IMO) need another winger so that Byron/Evans don't need to play I the top 9.

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

For all of our outrage, the team is still very solidly in a playoff spot. So we should cool our jets a little. Lord knows I’ve had my differences with Bergevin, but I would appoint him GM into perpetuity before I hire Roy or Maguire.

 

As far as MB goes, he did a stellar job this summer. His real problem is the wider strategy of “retooling” when the only clear-cut elite talents in the organization are Price and Weber. This always raised the very real danger that the old guys would decline before the young guys could develop enough to be reliably impact players. And this is **exactly** what appears to be happening. 

 

Habs29 is right that the D needs an overhaul, but there are only so many moves you can make. MB was the busiest GM in the league over the summer and his moves were pretty much all winners. Rather than think in terms of reconstruction of the D, the “retool” philosophy calls for the addition of one more piece: a puck-moving LD. Many of us have been howling for that ever since Markov was thrown to the curb for no apparent reason. It’s one of those gaping roster holes that MB likes to sit on for years. He FINALLY filled the backup G position after about six years. The one remaining hole he needs to fill is LD. And he needs to frigging do it. 

 

If he does find one and that still doesn’t work, then the conversation should flip to other possibilities - whether rebuilding or firing the GM.

 

Good points. I shudder to think how bad the Habs would be this year without Toffoli and Anderson. MB did a good job this summer but there are obviously still holes. 

 

I am just trying to manage my expectations for this year. For the Habs to have been a contender this year they needed both Suzuki and KK to take a big step forward. That hasn't happened but I am still confident/hopeful they will both be good NHL players.  They also need to let their young defence propsects (Guhle, Brooks, Harris, Struble, Norlinder) develop and not throw them away in a trade to make themselves marginally better at the deadline. 

 

I haven't given up on this year but my expectations are much lower. They aren't good enough right now and adding Ekholm will not make them good enough. I would rather MB do nothing right now than give up a chunk of the future on a trade. I am afraid the window has closed on winning a cup while Weber is still in his prime.  Just my thoughts, I know other think differently and are  hoping MB makes a major trade tomorrow. 

[GHT120]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

... I haven't given up on this year but my expectations are much lower. They aren't good enough right now and adding Ekholm will not make them good enough. I would rather MB do nothing right now than give up a chunk of the future on a trade. I am afraid the window has closed on winning a cup while Weber is still in his prime.  Just my thoughts, I know other think differently and are  hoping MB makes a major trade tomorrow. 

 

 I agree they aren't good enough, but Ekholm could solidify the defence and support getting the forwards up-ice ... I also agree on not giving up the better prospects (which are mostly defencemen) as the Habs are a year or two away from having to re-work the defence around a couple of those youngsters ... but in a weak draft year (even next from what I've read/heard) moving picks wouldn't worry me.

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

 

 I agree they aren't good enough, but Ekholm could solidify the defence and support getting the forwards up-ice ... I also agree on not giving up the better prospects (which are mostly defencemen) as the Habs are a year or two away from having to re-work the defence around a couple of those youngsters ... but in a weak draft year (even next from what I've read/heard) moving picks wouldn't worry me.

Ekholm has been my first choice ever since he was reportedly available. I just don’t see him available now that Nashville is in a playoff spot. If he is available, than you try hard to get him. 

[alfredoh2009]

6 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Good points. I shudder to think how bad the Habs would be this year without Toffoli and Anderson. MB did a good job this summer but there are obviously still holes. 

 

I am just trying to manage my expectations for this year. For the Habs to have been a contender this year they needed both Suzuki and KK to take a big step forward. That hasn't happened but I am still confident/hopeful they will both be good NHL players.  They also need to let their young defence propsects (Guhle, Brooks, Harris, Struble, Norlinder) develop and not throw them away in a trade to make themselves marginally better at the deadline. 

 

I haven't given up on this year but my expectations are much lower. They aren't good enough right now and adding Ekholm will not make them good enough. I would rather MB do nothing right now than give up a chunk of the future on a trade. I am afraid the window has closed on winning a cup while Weber is still in his prime.  Just my thoughts, I know other think differently and are  hoping MB makes a major trade tomorrow. 

I am also more on the side of not trading prospects for has beens 

when Chiarot and Gallagher are back and Price is back on a groove : I think we will be primed for some Playoff heroics

 

heroics because it will be unexpected 

[GHT120]

15 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I am also more on the side of not trading prospects for has beens 

when Chiarot and Gallagher are back and Price is back on a groove : I think we will be primed for some Playoff heroics

 

heroics because it will be unexpected 

But you "think we will be primed for some Playoff heroics" ... so any success will not be unexpected

LOL

 

Price is obviously the key ... as he always has been, despite all the moves MB has made ... Gallagher is Gallagher, but with hand/wrist injuries in the past we have seen there can be a difference between being cleared to play and able to play effectively, because of the hand strength issue ... and while Chiarot is perhaps best suited to the playoffs I still don't have confidence in him, or Edmondson, playing big minutes with Weber against top lines ... 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

11 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

But you "think we will be primed for some Playoff heroics" ... so any success will not be unexpected

LOL

 

Price is obviously the key ... as he always has been, despite all the moves MB has made ... Gallagher is Gallagher, but with hand/wrist injuries in the past we have seen there can be a difference between being cleared to play and able to play effectively, because of the hand strength issue ... and while Chiarot is perhaps best suited to the playoffs I still don't have confidence in him, or Edmondson, playing big minutes with Weber against top lines ... 

 

Ya know, it was just a few months ago we were talking about The Trident 😉 

 

I think old stars like Weber, Staal, and Perry often find another gear in the playoffs. They’re no longer pacing themselves just to survive, but are leaving it all on the ice. Plus when the idiot refs put the whistles away, it rewards gritty, strong slowfoots like Chiarot and Edmundson. And Petry is awesome no matter what. This sort thing gives reason for hope that the D will “miraculously” look better once the playoffs start. Not saying it’s a guarantee, nor that they can go four rounds - but I’m just saying it’s not an irrational hope.