Jump to content

Apr. 24, Habs vs Flames, 7 PM


dlbalr

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

Also, the level of competition in the NHL has increased so its harder to make the playoffs.  Its not like it can be said that the Flames suck, they have a decent team and they're in 5th. 

 How is harder to make the playoffs this year, they only have to beat 3 teams? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

The damn Senators happened thats what.  i.e. in the 1st game against the Sens they pressured the Habs dmen and everything went to crap after that.  Its like all the other teams watched that game and all figured it out.  Since that game no teams are giving the Habs dmen the time and/or space to make those long breakout stretch passes.

 

They need to start flipping out of their zone.  Toffoli flipped out the other game, but it went to nobody.  I'm wondering if Gustafsson or Merrill are flippers?  That would be helpful. 

If the Sens - one of the worst teams in the league - come up with a strategy to neutralize your transition game, in the FIRST game they play against you, than:

a) the early success was a mirage

b) your defence was smoke and 

irritated and not really that good to begin with - which is what I’ve been saying from the start about a cure that had two legit top 4 dmen (Weber and Petry), and I don’t even consider mountain man who played for some reason is leading the team in TOI (almost 24min tonight), but isn’t even playing like a top 4, let alone a top pairing dman. Petry is playing like the Petry that Edmonton was hesitant to extend prior to his strong UFA year. I think he would probably o better. He was expected to be the 2nd pairing guy, than seen as a top pairing dman. In short our D aucks

3) your coaching staff can’t adjust its strategy to best use the personnel they have been given. They aren’t good, but they also shouldn’t be as bad as they have been.

4) your GM is clueless and continues to think mountain man is the guy to anchor your defence and after saying he will build the D through the draft trades away his best defensive draft pick for that bum Drouin - who he immediately signed to a stupid extension.  Since then he has added Alzner (useless), and a bunch of guys that are best suited for, and had their most success as bottom pairing or depth dmen - chariot, Edmondson, Kulak, Reilly, Schlemko, Oeulett, Morrow, Streit, Scandella, Folin, or rushed kids like Mete not o my onto the lineup, but into the top pairing.

 

I keep hearing go was available this summer for MB that would have made the D better, well, who has MB acquired than an old Markov on his last legs probably would have been in 2017????? He can’t get a centre, he can’t get a dman. He’s on his third coach. But yeah, let’s cut him some slack since there are two phases to his tenure. That’s bullshit!!! The defence that MB inherited, was better than what he’s built in his 10 years, and I don’t really see a prospect that is a legit top 4, other than Romanov.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Not to mention Edmundson and Perry too.  MB has made numerous really good moves that should greatly improve the team, yet somehow the results are almost the same as last year if not worse. 

 

I think Merrill and Gustofsson will also help, but so far Staal seems to be a dud. 

 

No clue what is wrong with the core of this team but I dont think they are being played properly.  I also thinks its a d issue and lack of a C that can score 20+ g/yr.

 

Also, the level of competition in the NHL has increased so its harder to make the playoffs.  Its not like it can be said that the Flames suck, they have a decent team and they're in 5th. 

That's because it's our core group of players. The only thing that hasn't changed in the last 7 years other than Bergevin. This core is no good. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Listen, if the team craps out and misses the playoffs, I’m pretty sure Bergy will be out the door. This will be an ironic fate, considering that he has been the Habs’ MVP this year by a country mile. But at the end of the day, his tenure has been a near-total failure and was relying on this season to redeem it. If that doesn’t happen, well, f**k him.

 

In answer to Boagalott’s question about how we can add so many good pieces and still suck, I think the key is the massive regression of Price and Weber. What we’ve added to the team has been balanced out by what’s been subtracted through their slide into mediocrity. The two *key* players are now a shadow of what they were. Anderson/Toffoli can’t compensate for the loss of prime-era Price/Weber.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

Not to mention Edmundson and Perry too.  MB has made numerous really good moves that should greatly improve the team, yet somehow the results are almost the same as last year if not worse. 

 

I think Merrill and Gustofsson will also help, but so far Staal seems to be a dud. 

 

No clue what is wrong with the core of this team but I dont think they are being played properly.  I also thinks its a d issue and lack of a C that can score 20+ g/yr.

 

Also, the level of competition in the NHL has increased so its harder to make the playoffs.  Its not like it can be said that the Flames suck, they have a decent team and they're in 5th. 

Edmondson was a bottom pairing in a cup winning St Louis team and would make a great bottom pairing dman, that is occasionally bumped up - IF we had 3 other top 4 to support Petry. I’ll give MB some slack, since Weber should still be a top 4 (which he clearly isn’t now), but we still needed two more top 4 dmen. I’ve been saying that for the past 3 or 4 years. But yeah, it’s hard to make. Deal, because boo-hoo deals are hard to make. Of course you can trade great prospects like Sergechev for a lazy winger like Drouin, but can’t get acquire a quality dman yourself 🤔. Even if Sergechev never becomes more than a bottom pairing dman (and he is clearly much better than that), he is a much better player than Drouin. As a dman, he has more goals, assists and points than that bum Drouin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

I am at the point I hope Bergevin doesn't bring back any ufa's or Rfa's . I hope to god he doesn't over spend to keep Danault.

I hope he lets danault walk. Danault’s comments at the start of the season about his role was not what you want from a guy you need to be a veteran leader. He should have been traded along with Tatar fir help on defence. If the reports of the contract he turned down are true, we dodged a bullet. We already have the horrible Weber and Price contracts on the books for a LONG time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Listen, if the team craps out and misses the playoffs, I’m pretty sure Bergy will be out the door. This will be an ironic fate, considering that he has been the Habs’ MVP this year by a country mile. But at the end of the day, his tenure has been a near-total failure and was relying on this season to redeem it. If that doesn’t happen, well, f**k him.

 

In answer to Boagalott’s question about how we can add so many good pieces and still suck, I think the key is the massive regression of Price and Weber. What we’ve added to the team has been balanced out by what’s been subtracted through their slide into mediocrity. The two *key* players are now a shadow of what they were. Anderson/Toffoli can’t compensate for the loss of prime-era Price/Weber.

It’s not JUST the regression of those two. Those hurt for sure.  But at the end of the day, even if Weber hadn’t regressed as much as he had, MB has not been able to add two 

more (or even one) legit top 4 dmen. I don’t think he has even a acquired a dman that would have been as an old Markov would have been in 2017.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

The damn Senators happened thats what.  i.e. in the 1st game against the Sens they pressured the Habs dmen and everything went to crap after that.  Its like all the other teams watched that game and all figured it out.  Since that game no teams are giving the Habs dmen the time and/or space to make those long breakout stretch passes.

 

They need to start flipping out of their zone.  Toffoli flipped out the other game, but it went to nobody.  I'm wondering if Gustafsson or Merrill are flippers?  That would be helpful. 

I’m blaming the reverse retro jerseys!

 

ever since Feb 4 vs the Sens when our beloved bleu blanc rouge emphasized the BLEU! They conjured up the ghost of hated Maple Leafs past!

 

it was wrong to make blue the primary color. 
 

we must now offer a sacrifice. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, revvvrob said:

I’m blaming the reverse retro jerseys!

 

ever since Feb 4 vs the Sens when our beloved bleu blanc rouge emphasized the BLEU! They conjured up the ghost of hated Maple Leafs past!

 

it was wrong to make blue the primary color. 
 

we must now offer a sacrifice. 

How about the architect fir this titanic - MB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

It’s not JUST the regression of those two. Those hurt for sure.  But at the end of the day, even if Weber hadn’t regressed as much as he had, MB had not been able to get legit top 4 dmen. I don’t think he has even got a dman that would have been as old as Markov would have been in 2017.

 

Well, yes. But if Price had not been lousy for most of the season, we’d have some extra wins; and if Weber were Weber, we’d have more wins on top of that. On paper, this team should be better than it is - and that’s because when we look at Price and Weber “on paper” we imagine something very different from what we’ve seen on the ice this season. I think this team would be just fine if those two were playing anywhere close to their prime levels. (And re: Price, I’m not talking about Superman of 2014, but just a top-10 G).

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, yes. But if Price had not been lousy for most of the season, we’d have some extra wins; and if Weber were Weber, we’d have more wins on top of that. On paper, this team should be better than it is - and that’s because when we look at Price and Weber “on paper” we imagine something very different from what we’ve seen on the ice this season. I think this team would be just fine if those two were playing anywhere close to their prime levels. (And re: Price, I’m not talking about Superman of 2014, but just a top-10 G).

And this is it, in one sentence.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, I've been optimistic on the Habs this season. Just posting here to show that I am not hiding with the unicorns behind a bleu blanc rouge rainbow

 

Calgary's trap smothers the life out of the Habs, and missing Gallagher really hurts the team. Also, adding Stall has painted the team into a corner with the cap situation.

 The two new Ds are good role players for the playoffs

 

The team seems to be playing just good enough to slide into the playoffs under the catcher's' tag...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, yes. But if Price had not been lousy for most of the season, we’d have some extra wins; and if Weber were Weber, we’d have more wins on top of that. On paper, this team should be better than it is - and that’s because when we look at Price and Weber “on paper” we imagine something very different from what we’ve seen on the ice this season. I think this team would be just fine if those two were playing anywhere close to their prime levels.

Yeah, but that’s not much different than the suggestions we sign Getzlaf next season, it the excitement from some about Stall.  Price has been on a steady decline and has had really bad streaks, with some hot play. It’a been a rollercoaster ever since he started having increasing injury  issues. Weber’s play dropped off and this year has fallen off a cliff (which was faster than I’d even envisioned- and his age and contract was one of the reasons I hated the Subban trade - I’d rather only have one year of Subban on the books right now than 5 of Weber!!!).  I don’t think we can expect Price or Weber to be the EI lite players they were. I said this summer, I didn’t like the D and that the additions on D weee not enough. I loved the Taffoli pickup and Anderson had been great, but the moves on D since letting Markov go, have been horrible.

 

can you imagine how much worse we’ll be if we actually got even older and  signed Getzlaf?? These guys aren’t the same players from 2014, let alone the 2010 team Canada.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, yes. But if Price had not been lousy for most of the season, we’d have some extra wins; and if Weber were Weber, we’d have more wins on top of that. On paper, this team should be better than it is - and that’s because when we look at Price and Weber “on paper” we imagine something very different from what we’ve seen on the ice this season. I think this team would be just fine if those two were playing anywhere close to their prime levels. (And re: Price, I’m not talking about Superman of 2014, but just a top-10 G).

 

You're not wrong, but I tend to think a bigger issue is a lack of production from their ECL's.

 

Since the salary cap started it has been crucial for a team to be successful to have a minimum of 1 and ultimately 2-3 players on ECL's that are playing way above their pay.  ex:  rookies getting 50+ pts and making under 1mil.  (you can effectively circumvent the cap if you have several really good youngsters)

 

i.e. if Suzuki and KK were playing better the Habs would be doing a lot better, and numerous core vets wouldnt be in slumps.  They'd have gotten pts from playing w the youngsters.  However, we can' really blame Suzuki and KK, because its not their fault they are young and arent living up to our expected potential.  That was a huge risk to take and its all on MB.

 

Thats why I said its harder to make the playoffs because now almost every team has 2-3 ECL's that are playing above their pay.  The Habs have 3 ECL's and none are playing way above their pay grade.   i.e. Susuki, KK, and Romanov.  They youngsters aren't playing over their potential to help make up for any decline in the aging players. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

If the Sens - one of the worst teams in the league - come up with a strategy to neutralize your transition game, in the FIRST game they play against you, than:

a) the early success was a mirage

b) your defence was smoke

 

....

 

I agree with basically everything that you said in that whole comment.

 

Thats what happened though.  The Habs hadnt lost a game in regulation yet and the Sens hadnt won any and they managed to beat the Habs.  Every team that had been crushed by the Habs would have been bewildered by that and would have looked into that game. 

 

A lot of it is how they are playing, and their overall team offensive hockey IQ seems to be really low.  It drives me crazy because so often they are standing in the wrong spot.  ex:  why do numerous of them stand inches from the crease?  i.e. they have arms and have sticks in their hands, so they are able to reach ahead for lose pucks. 

 

The issue is it is much harder if not impossible to get pucks that are behind you than in front of you.  There was numerous times tonight where they puck was lose but it was behind them because they were in too close.  The majority of the time there is really no need for several of them to be standing inches from the crease. 

 

I only mentioned Getzlaf because Perry worked out this year so I imagine Getz would too.  They will still need an vet 4th line C next year.  Who would you suggest for that role?  Plus, dont forget that they might need 2 C's depending on what happens with UFA Danault. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

 

I only mentioned Getzlaf because Perry worked out this year so I imagine Getz would too.  They will still need an vet 4th line C next year.  Who would you suggest for that role?  Plus, dont forget that they might need 2 C's depending on what happens with UFA Danault. 

 

Hasn't Staal shown that we don't need a vet 4th line C?  Our bottom-6 was fine before we added him.  Evans is a good NHLer and Poehling has had a strong season in Laval.  The league is getting younger and younger - I think you can afford to have old, slow guys on the wing, like Perry, but not so much at C and D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Neech said:

 

Hasn't Staal shown that we don't need a vet 4th line C?  Our bottom-6 was fine before we added him.  Evans is a good NHLer and Poehling has had a strong season in Laval.  The league is getting younger and younger - I think you can afford to have old, slow guys on the wing, like Perry, but not so much at C and D.

Agreed. We don’t need more old men. I don’t mind resigning Perry to a similar deal, with a slight raise. Hard no to Stall and a definite no to Getzlaf. I wanted him in his draft year, and would have loved adding him in 2010. I don’t want Getzlaf in 2020-21. Teams like the leafs that have elite centres and superstars like Matthews, Marner and Tavares can afford to sign old guys to provide grit and leadership as depth. We need elite skill. No point in bringing more old men, to lead guys that haven’t shown they can be the man. We need to add skilled guys capable carrying the load. You add experience, to help guide the elite skill you have. You don’t sign old men, when you don’t have the young horses that can carry the load. If we add at centre, I’d rather add someone young who can carry the load, so we are relying on Suzuki and KK to take the next step. Maybe they are ready next year, maybe one takes a small forward, and maybe both need more time. In any event I don’t want Danault back unless it was very cheap  (under $3m) and a short term (no more than 4 years - preferably 3). As a UFA someone will probably pay more, but in his UFA year, with a flat cap, and a buyers market, he hasn’t shown he deserves a raise. If anything I’d pay him less. I wouldn’t want to be the team that pays Danault more than that - he didn’t earn it based on his production, or leadership as a veteran. I’d question the leadership of the entire veteran core from what we’ve seen this year.

 

In any event, as I’ve been for a long time now, centre shouldn’t be our priority. We need to rebuild our defence. That’s where we should be spending  our money and we need legit puck moving high end talent on the blue line. We have centres that MAY be internal solutions, but I don’t see any internal solutions that i’d consider can’t miss top pairing dman (and that includes Romanov - who we all hope will be a top pairing dman, or at least a solid top 4), but he hasn’t shown he is ready for that role yet. Toronto, Edmonton and Winnipeg would probably get by and be pretty good with our Dman. We don’t have the offence of either of those teams, and no longer have the quality of goaltending that Winnipeg has to get by other out pathetic dman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Neech said:

 

Hasn't Staal shown that we don't need a vet 4th line C?  Our bottom-6 was fine before we added him.  Evans is a good NHLer and Poehling has had a strong season in Laval.  The league is getting younger and younger - I think you can afford to have old, slow guys on the wing, like Perry, but not so much at C and D.


It’s obvious to everyone that Staal is not the answer - except for Ducharme who plays him everywhere. 
 

It’s also obvious to everyone that Chairot/Weber can’t keep up to the play - except for Ducharme

 

Ducharme is out of his depth and no way should he be our coach next season. His decisions are amateur 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Agreed. We don’t need more old men. I don’t mind resigning Perry to a similar deal, with a slight raise. Hard no to Stall and a definite no to Getzlaf. I wanted him in his draft year, and would have loved adding him in 2010. I don’t want Getzlaf in 2020-21. Teams like the leafs that have elite centres and superstars like Matthews, Marner and Tavares can afford to sign old guys to provide grit and leadership as depth. We need elite skill. No point in bringing more old men, to lead guys that haven’t shown they can be the man. We need to add skilled guys capable carrying the load. You add experience, to help guide the elite skill you have. You don’t sign old men, when you don’t have the young horses that can carry the load. If we add at centre, I’d rather add someone young who can carry the load, so we are relying on Suzuki and KK to take the next step. Maybe they are ready next year, maybe one takes a small forward, and maybe both need more time. In any event I don’t want Danault back unless it was very cheap  (under $3m) and a short term (no more than 4 years - preferably 3). As a UFA someone will probably pay more, but in his UFA year, with a flat cap, and a buyers market, he hasn’t shown he deserves a raise. If anything I’d pay him less. I wouldn’t want to be the team that pays Danault more than that - he didn’t earn it based on his production, or leadership as a veteran. I’d question the leadership of the entire veteran core from what we’ve seen this year.

 

In any event, as I’ve been for a long time now, centre shouldn’t be our priority. We need to rebuild our defence. That’s where we should be spending  our money and we need legit puck moving high end talent on the blue line. We have centres that MAY be internal solutions, but I don’t see any internal solutions that i’d consider can’t miss top pairing dman (and that includes Romanov - who we all hope will be a top pairing dman, or at least a solid top 4), but he hasn’t shown he is ready for that role yet. Toronto, Edmonton and Winnipeg would probably get by and be pretty good with our Dman. We don’t have the offence of either of those teams, and no longer have the quality of goaltending that Winnipeg has to get by other out pathetic dman.

It is very hard to argue your point given how bad the team is playing.

the Stall signing was to have options for when Evans was outmatched as a 4C and for short stints replacing Kotkaniemi or Suzuki when  needed. Stall was never thought as able to take on the role Danault plays. He has been over used because of running out of options under the cap and because the young ce tees have struggled

 

I definitely would not bring him back. But next season may be a full rebuild if the team continues its downward spiral 

 

If MB survives the season (if the Habs play at least two rounds) I would sign a top 4 LD and keep the 26-30 forward core including Danault and Tatar for one more season. Be it like the teams « last dance » season or do or die cup run 

 

béton next year , Price/Weber/Perry’s window will be closed

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a big X and O guy but I noticed on Friday night in the third period that the Habs had some success on the cycle and generated some of their chances near the end off that.  Then in the first period of this game, they had some success on the cycle.  Then, to me, it appeared as if they gave up on the cycle entirely and went back to trying to score off the rush.  I don't know if that was a Montreal coaching adjustment or something Calgary did to counter that but I'd like to see a more concerted effort to get back to the cycle.  No, they're not built to do that very well but when you're not scoring off the rush, trying something different isn't the worst idea.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

You're not wrong, but I tend to think a bigger issue is a lack of production from their ECL's.

 

Since the salary cap started it has been crucial for a team to be successful to have a minimum of 1 and ultimately 2-3 players on ECL's that are playing way above their pay.  ex:  rookies getting 50+ pts and making under 1mil.  (you can effectively circumvent the cap if you have several really good youngsters)

 

i.e. if Suzuki and KK were playing better the Habs would be doing a lot better, and numerous core vets wouldnt be in slumps.  They'd have gotten pts from playing w the youngsters.  However, we can' really blame Suzuki and KK, because its not their fault they are young and arent living up to our expected potential.  That was a huge risk to take and its all on MB.

 

Thats why I said its harder to make the playoffs because now almost every team has 2-3 ECL's that are playing above their pay.  The Habs have 3 ECL's and none are playing way above their pay grade.   i.e. Susuki, KK, and Romanov.  They youngsters aren't playing over their potential to help make up for any decline in the aging players. 

 

That’s true too. Suzuki is on a 50-point pace pro-rated for 82 games; KK on about a 36-point pace. Romanov, 12 points or so. That’s just not enough. 

 

I can’t help adding that this is all too typical of what happens. Fans go cowabunga over young player X or Y and expect huge results almost right away. The reality is usually much, much messier and more frustrating. That’s why I am always the guy pouring cold water over fans who imagine that prospect so-and-so is going to come in and save us. 

 

I don’t know what these modest returns say about these players’ ultimate potential. KK was billed as a potential Kopiotar, but Kopitar stepped in right away and produced big-time. I’d say it’s safe to scratch that comparator. I strongly suspect we are really looking at Lars Eller 2.0. (Also, in the Bubble KK was laying on the body in a huge way; why isn’t he doing that now?) Suzy may indeed grow into a 60-70 point C, but fantasies of him becoming a PPG star C in the league were *probably* overstated. Too soon to tell with Romy.

 

Anyway, like you I don’t blame the kids. It’s the vets who have disappointed this year: not just the disastrous regression of the Big Two but also supporting cast, especially Tatar and Danault. Byron is washed up, Kulak never solidified his position, Drouin is Drouin, etc., etc.. 

 

Bottom line is, the young players weren’t there yet and the old core aged out. The only hope now is the “Built for the Playoffs” theory of this team.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...