alfredoh2009 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 I know I wil never win this argument. That’s fine still, I am of the opinion that the team’s D will be adequate during the playoffs despite the season because the new system will help the type of players we have and also the fact that the overall talent level has improved to the point where we can sit Weber to let him heal that is improvement over the last we years and reason to hope despite the shortcomings of the structure of the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Petry is not elite, he is an excellent #3 that can carry the load for short periods of time, but he is not able to take over a game. I want an elite D on the Habs. A dominant scoring D than is solid on defense. The brain cramps Petry has every second game are too much for me to crown him THE best possible Dmfor the Habs... better should be possible Agree, but good luck with that. We had a chance to draft Hughes and went with KK. Now we need a miracle pick like finding PK Subban in the second round (and of course, lots of fans could not crap on Subban enough even when he was lighting it up spectacularly night after night). Petry is certainly in the top-30 of NHL defencemen and is therefore technically a #1 d-man. Sure, he’s not perfect, but few are. By calling him a #3 you are looking a gift horse in the mouth IMHO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: I agree, that in a GOOD team Petry would not be your best dman. I would not necessarily say he has to be your #3 dman (although that would be an enviable position), but ideally, he would anchor the 2nd pairing. He can be better than than the other 1st pairing dmen, as long as you have that truly elite 1st pairing dman - another Markov is essentially what we need. He made Souray and Komisarik look like serviceable 1st pairing guys. Markov and Petry on the same blueline would be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Markov and Petry on the same blueline would be amazing. In the KHL? No, Markov does not even play there anymore when Markov was still with the Habs, Petry was not very good. their best years never overlapped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 Just now, alfredoh2009 said: In the KHL? No, Markov does not even play there anymore when Markov was still with the Habs, Petry was not very good. their best years never overlapped No, I’m saying that having both guys in their prime would be amazing! Just a “fantasy” thought. Sergachev is no Markov, but that trade continues to cripple the organization structurally, rather as the Gomez trade did. So frustrating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 51 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Petry is not elite, he is an excellent #3 that can carry the load for short periods of time, but he is not able to take over a game. I want an elite D on the Habs. A dominant scoring D than is solid on defense. The brain cramps Petry has every second game are too much for me to crown him THE best possible Dmfor the Habs... better should be possible Petry is far more than a #3. He's been the #1 on this team for two years, and is better than pretty much any D in this division outside of Hughes and Giordano. He's absolutely a #1. He's not the best d in the league, but he's in the top 15. As for mistakes, every D has them. Every d has slumps. Every D has brain cramps. And Petry's are not every other game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 50 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: Petry is not elite, he is an excellent #3 that can carry the load for short periods of time, but he is not able to take over a game. I want an elite D on the Habs. A dominant scoring D than is solid on defense. The brain cramps Petry has every second game are too much for me to crown him THE best possible Dmfor the Habs... better should be possible Petry is a #2. Hes been a very good #2, since his first day in Montreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: I think you need to make sure you have legit top 2 and 4 type dman, before signing fringe guys like Chariot and Edmondson. Sign or acquire the quality players first and than look at how much you can spend on the depth players. No point in over paying for depth, when you don’t have the quality guys to begin with Arguably we should have signed the top D guys, first. However, I really think that there are fewer than 62 D in this league that we would actually consider as first-pairing defencement. And it's hard to pry those away from their current teams. That said, my bigger issue with your post is with "overpaying for depth". Both Chiarot and Edmundson are signed at $3.5M, a very reasonable cost. There are 100+ defencemen in the league getting paid $3.5M or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 Petry is a good defenceman that can't handle being the #1 defenceman. He thrives as the 2nd pair stud that has to take #1 duties from time to time, but isn't the #1 guy. The situation he has in Montreal is the perfect fit for him. When he was in Edmonton, his play deteriorated because he couldn't be the #1 guy night in and night out. He comes to Montreal and isn't the #1 guy and thrives. When he goes into his slumps, he can be sheltered to get out of them, and it makes him generally play better overall because of that. Make no bones about it, without Weber, Petry isn't a top-2 defenceman on this team. The bone-headed plays and couple of games here and there he plays bad, get amplified and last longer when he can't be sheltered. The closest example I can think of is Kunitz and Crosby, even though Crosby directly made Kunitz what he was, which would of been a career 3rd/4th liner without Crosby, the Weber-Petry thing is more indirectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 12 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said: The Habs are tight against the cap now due to Byron, Lehks, Drouin. OK, we're overpaying Byron, sure. Drouin's salary is on the high side, but not ridiculous, I think. And Lehkonen? $2.4M is spot-on for a third-line left winger. Overall, I don't think the forwards are causing the cap crunch. We're spending $15M on goaltending and $25M on defence, that's half the cap right there. And I think we all know why our G and D cap hits are that big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 I disagree. His Edmonton days are how many years ago now. He's matured as a player since then, and we really shouldn't be judging players by what they were 6 years ago. Otherwise Staal and Perry would be our number 1 line. As for Petry making bad plays or having slumps, happens to the top defenceman on every team, including the aforementioned Giordano and Hughes. The players it doesn't happen to are the top 2-3 defencemen in the league like Victor Hedman. But everyone else, they make those mistakes too. You just don't watch every single one of their team's games, and you don't focus on the player like you do with the Habs players... so you don't notice them. But they are there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 3 hours ago, DON said: 100% coincidence, he looks ready for retirement...from what i have seen so far, give me Poehling, Teasdale or some other kid for 4th line wing instead. 3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: I agree ☝️ that it’s likely a coincidence but they are dangerous every shift currently. I believe that much of that line is driven by Perry. He is such a smart and savvy player I also agree ... and wonder what could Perry do with non-Jurassic linemates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said: ... So, why the need to be so negative , the team is getting better The Habs are currently at a .550 winning percentage ... last season that would have placed them 5th in the Atlantic and 8th in line for one of the two wildcard an Eastern Conference playoff spots .,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 18 minutes ago, Commandant said: I disagree. His Edmonton days are how many years ago now. He's matured as a player since then, and we really shouldn't be judging players by what they were 6 years ago. Otherwise Staal and Perry would be our number 1 line. As for Petry making bad plays or having slumps, happens to the top defenceman on every team, including the aforementioned Giordano and Hughes. The players it doesn't happen to are the top 2-3 defencemen in the league like Victor Hedman. But everyone else, they make those mistakes too. You just don't watch every single one of their team's games, and you don't focus on the player like you do with the Habs players... so you don't notice them. But they are there. which is a god lead into the argument I am trying to make. Habs need a top D like Victor Hedman and Petry is not it. I am weary of arguments made that we should build around Petry and dump Weber. That is so short sighted and will lead to a catastrophic crash of the Defensemen core. The Habs need to get a top pair D that can dominate a game and then see how to fit the rest of the D-core around him. Be it trading Petry or dumping Weber or giving up on Romanov, Harris, Norlinder, Brook, etc. Why are we putting Petry on a pedestal when he has not won anything yet. He is good, but not elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: which is a god lead into the argument I am trying to make. Habs need a top D like Victor Hedman and Petry is not it. I am weary of arguments made that we should build around Petry and dump Weber. That is so short sighted and will lead to a catastrophic crash of the Defensemen core. The Habs need to get a top pair D that can dominate a game and then see how to fit the rest of the D-core around him. Be it trading Petry or dumping Weber or giving up on Romanov, Harris, Norlinder, Brook, etc. Why are we putting Petry on a pedestal when he has not won anything yet. He is good, but not elite. They’re not getting that superstar D who is, like, top-5 in the league. So forget that. I don’t think dumping Weber will lead to a crash in the defence corps at all, IF he is replaced by a serious top-4 defenceman. Preferably one who can move the puck like Petry. I’m not saying that those guys grow on trees and can be easily found. The point is, no one is saying just dump Weber and have no replacement. But the Weber of 2021 is barely a top-4 defenceman and could be easily replaced by a quality top-4 d-man. Moreover, replacing him with a Petry-style puck-mover would improve the D-corps as a whole by rectifying the current, heavy imbalance favouring plodding behemoths over puck-movers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: which is a god lead into the argument I am trying to make. Habs need a top D like Victor Hedman and Petry is not it. I am weary of arguments made that we should build around Petry and dump Weber. That is so short sighted and will lead to a catastrophic crash of the Defensemen core. The Habs need to get a top pair D that can dominate a game and then see how to fit the rest of the D-core around him. Be it trading Petry or dumping Weber or giving up on Romanov, Harris, Norlinder, Brook, etc. Why are we putting Petry on a pedestal when he has not won anything yet. He is good, but not elite. There is one Victor Hedman in the NHL.... good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 If MB survives this season and does not get fired, and that is a big if; that is what I expect him to do: improve the D. the forwards group is much better and the prospects are progressing well enough. If Allen is lost to Seattle, the D core will be too crowded and MB will have lots of assets to trade or resign. === If a new GM comes in, I am sure the D core will change too because of all the faults we all see there. So yes, I think it is possible to get a top 20 D in the league through free agency or trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 A top 20, aka another player of Petry's calibre.... it will be costly, and it won't be easy, i think given the cap situation its improbable, but possible, ok. A victor hedman, nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 1 minute ago, alfredoh2009 said: which is a god lead into the argument I am trying to make. Habs need a top D like Victor Hedman and Petry is not it. I am weary of arguments made that we should build around Petry and dump Weber. That is so short sighted and will lead to a catastrophic crash of the Defensemen core. The Habs need to get a top pair D that can dominate a game and then see how to fit the rest of the D-core around him. Be it trading Petry or dumping Weber or giving up on Romanov, Harris, Norlinder, Brook, etc. Why are we putting Petry on a pedestal when he has not won anything yet. He is good, but not elite. Agree that Petry (IMO) is not elite ... had had a terrific start to the season but elite defencemen are more consistent ... he is in a larger group below elite (which I define as regular Norris contenders). However, short of hitting a Maker/Hughes-like "win fall" ... adding a proven, quality top-pairing who has an offensive flair is unlikely with Weber's contract on the books ... moving Chiarot AND Edmundson would clear up almost as much cap space but they both have some control over where they are traded ... Seattle might take one of them if exposed but that still leaves about $20 million on the books on the blueline ... before adding the dominant defencemen ... and the habs only have about 13.6 million to re-sign/replace Tartar, Danault, Armia, Lehkonen and Kotkaniemi ... and sign/acquire/promote a 12th and 13th forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 Nothing is impossible, but getting a top-5 defenceman in his prime is going to be so costly, that the team will be stripped and better off without him. You throw Suzuki, KK, Romanov, Caufield, Primeau and 5 1st round picks at Tampa and take Tyler Johnson with Hedman and they will be talk about it. There isn't a team left in Montreal worth having the upgraded D for at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 17 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: If MB survives this season and does not get fired, and that is a big if; that is what I expect him to do: improve the D ... If Allen is lost to Seattle, the D core will be too crowded and MB will have lots of assets to trade or resign ... So yes, I think it is possible to get a top 20 D in the league through free agency or trade But if the habs are looking to IMPROVE their D-corps then that depth wouldn't seem to offer much assistance on the trade market ... it will take first round picks and top prospects OR mucho dinaros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: Nothing is impossible, but getting a top-5 defenceman in his prime is going to be so costly, that the team will be stripped and better off without him. You throw Suzuki, KK, Romanov, Caufield, Primeau and 5 1st round picks at Tampa and take Tyler Johnson with Hedman and they will be talk about it. There isn't a team left in Montreal worth having the upgraded D for at that point. I tend to agree with you, getting one in a trade in their prime is very costly. You have more success developing your own assuming you draft and develop well. There is usually no quick fix to establishing a competent top 4 group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: Romanov looks like he can move the puck, but he hasnt shown any sign that we can expect a significant offensive contribution from him. I definitely agree with that. I've noticed that while he's willing to move around in the offensive zone, he often has skated himself from a decent shooting position to nowhere in particular, killing the attack in the process. Definitely part of the learning curve though and he should get better in that regard but I wouldn't peg him more than 20-25 points most years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 49 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I tend to agree with you, getting one in a trade in their prime is very costly. You have more success developing your own assuming you draft and develop well. There is usually no quick fix to establishing a competent top 4 group. Which does nothing to support Weber for the next year or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 31 minutes ago, GHT120 said: Which does nothing to support Weber for the next year or two What do you suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.