Jump to content

May 1, Senators @ Canadiens, 7PM EST


Trizzak

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

Petry is a good defenceman that can't handle being the #1 defenceman.  He thrives as the 2nd pair stud that has to take #1 duties from time to time, but isn't the #1 guy.  The situation he has in Montreal is the perfect fit for him. 

 

When he was in Edmonton, his play deteriorated because he couldn't be the #1 guy night in and night out.  He comes to Montreal and isn't the #1 guy and thrives.  When he goes into his slumps, he can be sheltered to get out of them, and it makes him generally play better overall because of that.

 

Make no bones about it, without Weber, Petry isn't a top-2 defenceman on this team.  The bone-headed plays and couple of games here and there he plays bad, get amplified and last longer when he can't be sheltered.  The closest example I can think of is Kunitz and Crosby, even though Crosby directly made Kunitz what he was, which would of been a career 3rd/4th liner without Crosby, the Weber-Petry thing is more indirectly.

Petry was actually better without Weber yesterday and probably had his best game in a while and Is clearly a much better dman than Weber today.  Since he got here, Petry has gotten better, while Weber has regressed sufficiently. 
 

having said that I’d like to get a younger dman who can be better than Petry, because at his age, we dont know that his window is. Could be fir another two years, could be to his late 30’s. We do have a gap though of not having a true elite tenor of dman in that 22-26 age range. Might have had one - if we didn’t trade away Sergechev.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You need a LHD who can really skate and pass.  Weber will pick him up in the physical aspect of the game, but he needs to get to loose pucks and start the transition game.

 

The guy on our current roster who is best suited to do this is Kulak, but hes' only had a couple games with Weber at this point in the season. Long-term, while I love Kulak, this management/coaching clearly doesn't so they will need to find a guy they feel comfortable with there.  The concerning thing is that I don't think they see Chiarot - Weber as the wrong pair yet, so I'm not sure they will recognize they need a puck moving defenceman and may think they need yet another shutdown guy. 

 

 

 

Hopefully this layoff with the Upper Body Injury means that when Weber comes back for the end of season/playoffs, he has a bit more life in his legs, cause he seemed to be getting more and more tired. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Arguably we should have signed the top D guys, first. However, I really think that there are fewer than 62 D in this league that we would actually consider as first-pairing defencement. And it's hard to pry those away from their current teams.

 

That said, my bigger issue with your post is with "overpaying for depth". Both Chiarot and Edmundson are signed at $3.5M, a very reasonable cost. There are 100+ defencemen in the league getting paid $3.5M or more.

When you are already paying $18m for a goalie and a dman that are both past their prime, you need to either get tied of those players, or spend money on higher quality dman that is a difference maker. Edmondson and Chariot are not difference makers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

which is a god lead into the argument I am trying to make. Habs need a top D like Victor Hedman and Petry is not it.

 

(...) The Habs need to get a top pair D that can dominate a game and then see how to fit the rest of the D-core around him. Be it trading Petry or dumping Weber or giving up on Romanov, Harris, Norlinder, Brook, etc.

As has been said by others, you won't be able to trade for an elite defenceman -- the other teams won't want to give them up, either.

 

So, let's take a look at the UFAs. Here are the top 20 UFA-expiring defenceman contracts right now. (Some, like Petry, may already have signed extensions, though, I didn't check for those.) Assuming we had unlimited cap space, which we don't, who on this list would (1) be that top-two defenceman, (2) one that we'd want to give a long-term contract to, and (3) one that we would be able to pry from his current team? More than half of them are over 30.

 

1. Alexander Edler VAN 34 LD UFA 6000000
2. Dougie Hamilton CAR 27 RD UFA 5750000
3. Matt Niskanen PHI 33 RD UFA 5750000
4. Marc Staal DET 33 LD UFA 5700000
5. Jeff Petry MTL 32 RD UFA 5500000
6. Alex Goligoski ARI 34 LD/RD UFA 5475000
7. Niklas Hjalmarsson ARI 33 LD/RD UFA 5000000
8. Ryan Murray NJD 26 LD UFA 4600000
9. Jason Demers ARI 32 RD UFA 4500000
10. Brendan Smith NYR 31 LD/RD UFA 4350000
11. Ian Cole MIN 31 LD/RD UFA 4250000
12. David Savard TBL 29 RD UFA 4250000
13. Jonas Brodin MIN 26 LD UFA 4166667
14. Adam Larsson EDM 27 RD UFA 4166666
15. Kris Russell EDM 33 LD/RD UFA 4000000
16. Erik Gudbranson NSH 28 RD UFA 4000000
17. Alec Martinez VGK 32 LD UFA 4000000
18. Brandon Montour FLA 26 LD/RD UFA 3850000
19. Tyson Barrie EDM 28 RD UFA 3750000
20. Erik Gustafsson MTL 28 LD/RD UFA 3000000
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only name on the list that fits all the criteria is Hamilton.  I doubt he leaves Carolina, but if he were to be interested in Montreal, you move heaven and earth to find the cap space to get him in.  I don't care if he's RH, he'd become your number 1 defenceman. 

 

You let Hamilton anchor the top pair with Romanov

 

You move Petry to the LS, and let him cover up for Weber in that scenario. 

 

You gotta go cheap in your forward replacements for Tatar, and/or Danault as one of them is likely gone in this scenario. 

Armia is gone in this scenario. 

And you have to package Byron and a prospect/pick to get rid of him.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Commandant said:

The only name on the list that fits all the criteria is Hamilton.  I doubt he leaves Carolina, but if he were to be interested in Montreal, you move heaven and earth to find the cap space to get him in.  I don't care if he's RH, he'd become your number 1 defenceman. 

 

You let Hamilton anchor the top pair with Romanov

 

You move Petry to the LS, and let him cover up for Weber in that scenario. 

 

You gotta go cheap in your forward replacements for Tatar, and/or Danault as one of them is likely gone in this scenario. 

Armia is gone in this scenario. 

And you have to package Byron and a prospect/pick to get rid of him. 

We'd surely need to get rid of one of our D as well, as we already have six under contract for next year -- unless Seattle picks one of them up. And we'd still have a $27M+ defence corps, assuming $8M for Hamilton. As you said, we would need to go cheap on the forwards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

We'd surely need to get rid of one of our D as well, as we already have six under contract for next year -- unless Seattle picks one of them up. And we'd still have a $27M+ defence corps, assuming $8M for Hamilton. As you said, we would need to go cheap on the forwards.

You expose Weber, or try to move him.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

What do you suggest? 

Just saying if you keep Weber and DON'T go find a puck-mover with speed/quickness then it is a waste keeping Weber

Edited by GHT120
Spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

The only name on the list that fits all the criteria is Hamilton.  I doubt he leaves Carolina, but if he were to be interested in Montreal, you move heaven and earth to find the cap space to get him in.  I don't care if he's RH, he'd become your number 1 defenceman. 

 

You let Hamilton anchor the top pair with Romanov

 

You move Petry to the LS, and let him cover up for Weber in that scenario. 

 

You gotta go cheap in your forward replacements for Tatar, and/or Danault as one of them is likely gone in this scenario. 

Armia is gone in this scenario. 

And you have to package Byron and a prospect/pick to get rid of him.  

 

 

 

Is Hamilton that good?  If he is then why did both Boston and Calgary give up on him when he was still young?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Is Hamilton that good?  If he is then why did both Boston and Calgary give up on him when he was still young?

 

Is he that good? Yes

 

Calgary got Lindholm and Hanifin, so the trade is pretty even.  The flames got a top 4 D (though a downgrade on Hamilton) and a 1st line forward. 

 

Boston made a mistake in getting rid of him cause he didn't fit in with the team (read he's a nerdy guy who prefers to go to museums and art galleries than to hang out with the boys on the team, yes thats a real reason that was given).  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Is he that good? Yes

 

Calgary got Lindholm and Hanifin, so the trade is pretty even.  The flames got a top 4 D (though a downgrade on Hamilton) and a 1st line forward. 

 

Boston made a mistake in getting rid of him cause he didn't fit in with the team (read he's a nerdy guy who prefers to go to museums and art galleries than to hang out with the boys on the team, yes thats a real reason that was given).  

It was actually the same in Calgary. Guys and management didn’t like his “so my own thing” attitude that seems to be taboo fir the NHL. There was also the issue of him signing the extension, only his brother was signed and that became an issue. He was unhappy when his brother didn’t get a chance and teammate were unhappy the odd game his brother did get a chance. 
 

when the deal was made media here thought it was a horrible return, but that Hamilton had to be moved because of the “in the room” issues.
 

I’d take him in a heartbeat, but doubt he fits the robotic minded player that the habs want. I was shocked they tried to make a deal for D’Angelo (who I wouldn’t want anything to do with).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Is he that good? Yes

 

Calgary got Lindholm and Hanifin, so the trade is pretty even.  The flames got a top 4 D (though a downgrade on Hamilton) and a 1st line forward. 

 

Boston made a mistake in getting rid of him cause he didn't fit in with the team (read he's a nerdy guy who prefers to go to museums and art galleries than to hang out with the boys on the team, yes thats a real reason that was given).  

 

I always wondered why he was traded twice early in his career when stud defenceman are so hard to find. He seems to tick a lot of the boxes you look for, big, strong, mobile, good puck handler, 40-50 pts a year consistently.  I expect he will be well paid as a UFA. If he is the kind of guy that "does his own thing" then perhaps the right destination as opposed to the biggest contract might determine where he ends up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, according to the Athletic

https://theathletic.com/2532436/2021/04/27/seattle-mock-expansion-draft-6-0-protected-lists/

 

Dougie Hamilton may be left unprotected and available for the Expansion draft

 

Carolina Hurricanes (7-3-1)

Protected forwards: Jordan Staal, Sebastian Aho, Andrei Svechnikov, Vincent Trocheck, Teuvo Teravainen, Nino Niederreiter, Warren Foegele.

Protected defence: Jaccob Slavin, Brett Pesce, Jake Bean.

Protected goalie: Alex Nedeljkovic.

Prominently available: Dougie Hamilton, Brady Skjei, Jake Gardiner, Petr Mrazek, James Reimer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

May some know the answer to this question. If you have a UFA (ie. Tatar or Doug Hamilton) and an expansion team takes him, does the expansion team have a certain time period whey they are the only team that can sign him or is it a complete waste for an expansion team to pick a player who is a UFA? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

May some know the answer to this question. If you have a UFA (ie. Tatar or Doug Hamilton) and an expansion team takes him, does the expansion team have a certain time period whey they are the only team that can sign him or is it a complete waste for an expansion team to pick a player who is a UFA? 

Seattle gets a 48h UFA negotiation window before the expansion draft, so they can confirm that they can agree to terms before picking a UFA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, tomh009 said:

As has been said by others, you won't be able to trade for an elite defenceman -- the other teams won't want to give them up, either.

 

So, let's take a look at the UFAs. Here are the top 20 UFA-expiring defenceman contracts right now. (Some, like Petry, may already have signed extensions, though, I didn't check for those.) Assuming we had unlimited cap space, which we don't, who on this list would (1) be that top-two defenceman, (2) one that we'd want to give a long-term contract to, and (3) one that we would be able to pry from his current team? More than half of them are over 30.

 

1. Alexander Edler VAN 34 LD UFA 6000000
2. Dougie Hamilton CAR 27 RD UFA 5750000
3. Matt Niskanen RETIRED PHI 33 RD UFA 5750000
4. Marc Staal DET 33 LD UFA 5700000
5. Jeff Petry MTL 32 RD UFA 5500000
6. Alex Goligoski ARI 34 LD/RD UFA 5475000
7. Niklas Hjalmarsson ARI 33 LD/RD UFA 5000000
8. Ryan Murray NJD 26 LD UFA 4600000
9. Jason Demers ARI 32 RD UFA 4500000
10. Brendan Smith NYR 31 LD/RD UFA 4350000
11. Ian Cole MIN 31 LD/RD UFA 4250000
12. David Savard TBL 29 RD UFA 4250000
13. Jonas Brodin HAS NEW DEAL MIN 26 LD UFA 4166667
14. Adam Larsson EDM 27 RD UFA 4166666
15. Kris Russell EDM 33 LD/RD UFA 4000000
16. Erik Gudbranson NSH 28 RD UFA 4000000
17. Alec Martinez VGK 32 LD UFA 4000000
18. Brandon Montour FLA 26 LD/RD UFA 3850000
19. Tyson Barrie EDM 28 RD UFA 3750000
20. Erik Gustafsson MTL 28 LD/RD UFA 3000000

 

Some notes on who may be left unprotected and that (a stretch, but my take) may also be left unsigned:

TBL-Savard, FLA-Montour, EDM-Barrie

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Well, according to the Athletic

https://theathletic.com/2532436/2021/04/27/seattle-mock-expansion-draft-6-0-protected-lists/

 

Dougie Hamilton may be left unprotected and available for the Expansion draft

 

Carolina Hurricanes (7-3-1)

Protected forwards: Jordan Staal, Sebastian Aho, Andrei Svechnikov, Vincent Trocheck, Teuvo Teravainen, Nino Niederreiter, Warren Foegele.

Protected defence: Jaccob Slavin, Brett Pesce, Jake Bean.

Protected goalie: Alex Nedeljkovic.

Prominently available: Dougie Hamilton, Brady Skjei, Jake Gardiner, Petr Mrazek, James Reimer.

He’s a UFA. Unless they resign him, there is no reason to protect him. If he really wants to resign, he can help the time by signing after the draft.  If they don’t want to resign him, they can also trade his negotiation rights prior to the draft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Seattle gets a 48h UFA negotiation window before the expansion draft, so they can confirm that they can agree to terms before picking a UFA.

Which is why there is some risk to leaving great UFAs exposed in the expansion draft.

 

"Hey Dougie, we're interested in signing you."

"No thanks guys, I plan to re-up in Carolina."

"We'll pay you $10 million per year for 8 years, and you get a private tour of every museum in Seattle."

"...Carolina who? Lol."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

As long as Bergevin believes this core is good enough to win Weber and for that matter Price aren't going anywhere.

 

Even if he wanted to move them, it wouldn't be that simple. Those are big contracts to move and they are not good value right now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Even if he wanted to move them, it wouldn't be that simple. Those are big contracts to move and they are not good value right now. 

I actually think there is a chance that Weber would get claimed if we expose him in the draft. I’d they claim him, who knows, maybe price would be willing to waive his NMC in a trade and go over with Weber - IF Seattle is was interested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Trizzak said:

Which is why there is some risk to leaving great UFAs exposed in the expansion draft.

 

"Hey Dougie, we're interested in signing you."

"No thanks guys, I plan to re-up in Carolina."

"We'll pay you $10 million per year for 8 years, and you get a private tour of every museum in Seattle."

"...Carolina who? Lol."

I can’t see Hamilton getting anymore than $6.5m-$8.5m in this market - unless the new USA TV deal creates a big bump in the cap by 22-23 (I thought it’s supposed to be flat next year as well).  I can’t see the players agreeing to a significant increase in even two years though, if escrow repayments remain high.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...