Deja Vu?

[smon]

Is it just me or does it seem that every season Montreal struggles to make the playoffs or is a fringe playoff team and we fans are consoled because the team still has 2-3 years to go in the rebuilding phase? Once again, the team struggles and the powers that be talk about the team's longterm plan.

Believe it or not, coming into this season I was hoping Montreal could be a contender. And they were for the first quarter. The new NHL with its emphasis on speed seemed to be just what the doctor ordered for this club.

I'm tired and frustrated of hearing of how Montreal will be good in several seasons. I've heard it before. And the handling of the younger players by Julien has made me even more relucant to even think about it. Previously guys like Ward, Hainsey and Hossa were trying to stick around and were being lauded as the core of the team in a few seasons. Now players such as Perezhogin, Kostsitsyn, Komisarek and Higgins are. But Komisarek is already 23 years of age and has never really been given a starting job on the blueline except for playoff duty. The team went out and signed a 27 year old Swiss blueliner to platoon with him? Players underachieve and are still played ahead of the younger players because they can be sent down to the AHL..The club will never develop players unless they're given a fair shot. Yes, rookies will make mistakes, but as is the case with Komisarek, they will never develop into NHLers if they are not given playing time.

And at the same time, archrivals like the Leafs breeze into the playoffs each season. Even this year, with the introduction of the cap and departures of so many of their vets, they are still sneering at Montreal from higher up in the standings. And this was thanks to some bold moves that very well could have blown up in their GM's face. Throwing aside their vets and signing previously concussed guys like Allison and Lindros. This obviously wasn't the direction for Montreal, but then what is it..All we can do is hope Gainey knows.

Excuse the rant..But when is Montreal finally going to be a contender?

Edited January 13, 2006 by smon

[JMMR]

SMON I agree 100% I posted a shorter comment about this in an earlier thread. I a, always telling my friends habs fans and non habs fans alike that Montreal is 2 or 3 years away from regaining the Cup it seems like I have been doing that for 6 or 7 years and although Bob just recently received the helm of this club, the perennial limping into the playoffs just wont cut it. I want this team to be good now and in the future. Patience is a virtue I have always had difficulty with, but if 2 or 3 years under Bob is actually just that 2 or 3 years I can take it if the end result will be a parade down St. Catherine’s.

[MAK]

we need size, we need grit, we need a goalie...a good one.

unless we have luongo, we'll have to wait for price to be ready

[kaos]

The problem with Montreal is that until the past few seasons they've never been in the position of drafting one of the top 5 talents in any draft. They've never been able to draft the superstar like a Heatley, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Crosby, Nash ect., that they need to put them over the top offensively. Jesus the last 100 point scorer they had was Matts Naslund all the way back in 1985/1986.

And lets face it, their draft picks have left something to be desired over the years as well.

THey had the chance to draft Brad Richards, Alexander Frolov, Simon Gagne and ended up with Marcel Hossa, Ron Hainsey and Chris Higgins.

NOw it remains to be seen whether Kostitsyn, Perezhogin and Latendresse and even Komisarek to a certain point, can develop into that offensive difference maker, but until then, Montreal will languish as a 7,8,9th seeded team in the Eastern Confrence. NEver quite good enough to advance past the second round yet not bad enough to get a lottery selection.

So until the get/develop an offensive superstar, somebody that can be that go to guy when they need a goal, they will not be a cup contender.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't buy the 'we need an offensive superstar' argument; I was around in 1993 and know better. But I understand the frustration, believe me. Bob's only been in charge, though, for what, one or two full seasons? You can't blame him for the crap that went before. It would be a fatal mistake to refer back to the pre-Bob era as part of any evaluation of that era.

And who in their right minds predicted in, say, 2001, that the Habs would be contenders by now? Please.

Still, it IS a good question, whether Julien is bringing along the rookies properly. I'm skeptical about that myself, and if little progress is apparent with our young talent by season's end, he should be gone.

I think there are deeper problems on this team than talent, though. The players aren't working hard consistently, and there just does not seem to be any chemistry or conviction in their play...it is time for a trade. Ribeiro and Bonk have let down the entire organization - the team was counting on at least ONE of them to perform as a tolerable second-line centre. Without that, we're back to where we were before Yannic Perrault got here: the toilet.

Edited January 14, 2006 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[bombTHEice]

I think we simply have better player material as in the last years where the young guys were Ward, Chouinard, Hossa or Hainsey. Higgins, Plekanec, Komisarek, etc. have better potential in my eyes, are simply better than the earlier draftees. That's why the future is brighter for us than in the dark days.

We've had some very ugly drafts, even with good picks. We're still recovering from those days and it seems like the last drafts brought us some real talent, no Ryan's or Chouinard's in the first round. I'm really happy with guys ala Plekanec, Higgins or Komisarek & Co., they can bring this club to another level in 1 or 2 years but not just yet.

BTW. It seems like Julien is using the young guys a bit more right now - Ribs is already demoted to 4th line duties and so for e.g. Higgins gets more playing time.

[PB]

If the team's downfall where ever to last for much of the remaining season,

it would be, to me, a clear indication that the team would have been ill-composed

from the very start.

It bugs me that this could ever take place at a time when the pre and post- lockout situation

had given extraordinary rescources and options to all the GMs of the league.

The GMs have had an unusual quantity and variety of decisions to take since the last season

two years ago,.....because of it,...I feel that each team's story this year, as a magnified

reflection of what their respective GMs are all about.......our story is not yet completed, yet

it already has showned me a few aspects of Gainey which I am not too enchanted with.

[ddawwidd]

For me, it's sad that all of the sudden everyone started blaming Theodore. Yeah, I know, he hasn't been that 2002 Vezina-Hart Theo since... ewwww... 2002? He still makes a lot of mistakes, but I think that with a little piece of good will, he will recover. And don't think I wasn't pissed at him after that Pens loss. And look - Coyotes have given a chance to CuJo, Leafs are doing well with that old Belfour guy, even Brodeur (who was said to have lost his touch) is getting better and better. I think Theo saved our butts too many times before to now call him Red Light or so.

By the way - it's freaking funny, that the fans are booing Theo, few night later they shout "Huet! Huet!" and yesterday they were chanting Jose's name. Consistency, that's the key, huh?

I would agree with the trade plans if we would have ANYONE to start in goal HERE AND NOW. And we don't. Price isn't ready, Danis can steal a game or two, but he isn't ready. Huet - ok, his two last starts were stellar, but he isn't such wall Theo at his best can be. So, ship Theo, play Huet and again wait for another unproven youngster to be Jacques Plante II in, let's say, 2009?

I'm too damn bored of being constantly rebuilt. Flames, Bolts, Ducks, Wild, Predators, Canucks, Leafs enjoyed turnarounds and some success in shorter time than Habs. Ducks and Wild even managed to fall from the top And we're still waiting... Waiting for some Ribeiros and Hainseys - we take care of them to realize after 5 years or some that ummmm that wasn't the wisest of our draft choices...

[CoRvInA]

By the way - it's freaking funny, that the fans are booing Theo, few night later they shout "Huet! Huet!" and yesterday they were chanting Jose's name. Consistency, that's the key, huh?

No no you got it wrong they were signing "JOSE.... SAN JOSE!!!... Or even JOSE SANS JOSE

[BTH]

Okay, we get it - you like your little joke. Now say it *once* and leave it to us to repeat to our friends if we like it.

[CoRvInA]

Okay, we get it - you like your little joke. Now say it *once* and leave it to us to repeat to our friends if we like it.

JOSE JOSE SA...... :king:

[PMAC]

Montreal has been rebuilding since Houle was named GM BECAUSE Houle was named GM. Bob has less than 2 seasons to right the ship and you guys expect a Stanley Cup????!!!!!

That the team is in a position to compete this soon is only because some of Houle's draft picks markov Riberio, ryder from '98 and some of A. Savard's deals paid off (Zednik, Bullis, Perezhoghin). It will be nearly impossible to be a strong contender for the cup for a couple of more years(AND NO this does not meam that I am not hoping for a miracluous upset victory a' la 1986 & 1993).

Give Bob a chance... do you not think he offered Theo, Ribs and Dags around the league???

What kinds of offers do you think he got during a 3 wins in a million games, fall from a playoff spot , losing streak??

[shortcat1]

For the last few years, according to hockeysfuture.com, we have been among the top five in propects. We were # 1 for a while, before the coming of Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin and that bunch. Montreal is now ranked 6th. 6th out of 30 is still pretty good.

So, the team's potential is very good over the next few years. Rebuilding now is a given, not just a hope.

:king: :hlogo: :king:

[smon]

Montreal has been rebuilding since Houle was named GM BECAUSE Houle was named GM. Bob has less than 2 seasons to right the ship and you guys expect a Stanley Cup????!!!!!

That the team is in a position to compete this soon is only because some of Houle's draft picks markov Riberio, ryder from '98 and some of A. Savard's deals paid off (Zednik, Bullis, Perezhoghin). It will be nearly impossible to be a strong contender for the cup for a couple of more years(AND NO this does not meam that I am not hoping for a miracluous upset victory a' la 1986 & 1993).

Give Bob a chance... do you not think he offered Theo, Ribs and Dags around the league???

What kinds of offers do you think he got during a 3 wins in a million games, fall from a playoff spot , losing streak??

Who here said anything about winning a cup?

The majority of fans are just tired of waiting for a chance to even see Montreal seriously compete for one. Montreal really began "rebuilding" when Roy was shipped out of town.

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

Yes we are tired of rebuilding but we don't have much of a choice.

Some idiot (Ronald Corey to not name names) decided a few years ago to bring into the organization old inexperienced Habs players into important roles in the organization (Rejean Houle and Mario Tremblay to not name names). We are still recovering from this disaster. Tremblay chased Roy out of town and Houle traded him for a bag of peanuts. Houle also traded a bunch of other good players for other peanuts. More over, we also selected peanuts in the drafts during those years. Somehow, since his nickname his "peanut", he tought that having all these peanuts would make us a great team.

All this to say that Houle destroyed this team and left it with little quality players at the NHL level and not much more in the minors. It takes almost a decade to recover from such a disaster and we are a couple of years away of that. Just give Bob a chance to put together his own team. He just hired the coach that he wanted from day one yesterday. We are now ranked 6th out of 30 for prospects by Hockeyfuture.com.

Bob will sign UFAs and make trades to shape this team into what he wants, he's just waiting for the right time and the right deals to come along. He's patient and doesn't jump at the first trade offer that seems to be reasonable just for the sake of shaking things around.

Only a third of the roster are players he brought in. I'm sure that there's at least another third that he wants to upgrade and/or get rid of....Ribeiro for starters. Ribeiro his the complete opposite of what BG likes in a player and its a question of time before he's gone. Others will follow.

Now lets just be patient, we have the proper management in place, they will give us a contender within the next 3 years.

[KoZed]

Rebuilding is a very very long process. Its starts when you trade vets for picks and ends when the kids you drafted start breaking out and hit their peak. You draft kids at 17/18, and they usually break out around 24... That's about 7/8 years of development and waiting.

That's how long it can take. Look at TB. They've been rebuilding forever, but its only with the 98 draft (Lecavalier/Richards) that they really started to throw the foundations of a contender. Took them 6 years to have success in the playoffs.

The Habs trully started their rebuilding with the 2001 Draft (Komisarek, Perezhogin, Milroy, Plekanec, etc), that's only 5 seasons ago and all 3 of these guys are just starting to get a taste of the NHL. Some guys from the following drafts are also starting to get closer from being NHL regulars (Higgins, Ferland, Kostitsyn) but the team is still a couple years away from breaking out. Note that the Habs also never really got to pick many bluechip prospects, so it takes more time to develop those kids.

I'm personnaly aiming at 2007/2008. By then Higgins, Plekanec, Komisarek, Kostitsyn, Perezhogin and Co. will have 2-3 seasons in the NHL under their belts and should start to breakout. You'll also have more recent picks starting to get more comfortable in the NHL (Latendresse, Chipchura, Price, etc.). We're just fortunate enough to have some good vets who can keep the team competitive in the meanwhile.

[PB]

I dont see Gainey's role in Montreal as any different than most other GM in the league.

Making his team better than the precedind season as been his MOTTO as is should be,....no

cup contender type team will ever emerge without this taking place.....in the first place. Its not

like we where having a couple of Crosbys type talent just about to emerge from our farm

system to assure us a quantum leap into cup contention territory( no Hamilton players are in

the first 75 pointers).

So like all teams,... as equals under the same cap, we now depend on our organisation to

out-wised the others by being better at the numerous aspects of their function.

Proper actual roster's evaluation is paramount since it precedes everything else ( re-signing,

trading, acquiring UFA players ) and than the drafting, developpement, coaching selection, etc..etc...

Not all teams are at the cup contention level......but ALL teams can be improved incrementally from

their last season........this is where the real FUN is........it is also what is needed in order to get

anywhere else.........it is THE GM's TRUE MANDATE,.....and also the only bar on which their work

can be mesured.

Bob is not shying away from his responsability and he is now doing the best thing he

could in order to make that agenda a manifested one.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

How long does a team expect to be in a rebuilding phase?

We have been pretty much crap since 1994.....1994

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

How long does a team expect to be in a rebuilding phase?

We have been pretty much crap since 1994.....1994

As explained by many posts, because of Rejean Houle's many mistakes!!!!

If we were under the same management has in 1994, then I would be freaking out!!! Give time to the new management to rebuild the crappy team they were ended to start with. BG has only been with us for 3 years, in fact 2, because of last year's strike.

[ddawwidd]

Tremblay chased Roy out of town and Houle traded him for a bag of peanuts. Houle also traded a bunch of other good players for other peanuts. More over, we also selected peanuts in the drafts during those years. Somehow, since his nickname his "peanut", he tought that having all these peanuts would make us a great team.

Well, at least we have lots of peanuts to eat