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Overachieving/underachieving


Trizzak

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Just a thought.... I'd like everyone to post who you think is overachieving and underachieving, based on what you thought they would do at the beginning of the year compared to what they've done up to midseason. I like to think I set realistic goals for the players in my mind, and you'll notice that most of them involve offense.

Underachievers

Theodore (Current worth of play nowhere near equal to contract length and amount)

Zednik (I expected Zednik. Where is he? Anyone know?)

Dandenault (I thought the new NHL was practically formatted with him in mind. I thought he would thrive. I thought he would score more than once.)

Bonk (I recognize that he was brought in to be a 3rd line center, but I expected him to push Ribiero for the second line spot. Also, even 3rd line centers put goals in the net.

Dagenais (I honestly expected him to compete for the second line all season. He didn't.)

Ribiero (Maturity, and slight defensive improvement. *sigh* I'll keep waiting.)

----From here, everyone could probably be put on the Middle Ground, but they've still disappointed me a bit.

Komisarek (I recognize he is young, but I figured he'd have developed a tad quicker, not to mention scored once by now.)

Kovalev (Domination. Consistency.)

Perezhogin (Unfair placement? Perhaps. Julien didn't help him, but really, he practically disappeared when not being on the top line. He's gotta show something when elsewhere.)

Koivu (With a real winger on at least one side of him, I thought he'd average more than a point per game. Admittedly, that was probably a lofty goal.)

Bulis (I actually expected more offense. Silly me. He should be in the "middle ground.")

Souray (Personal problems aside, I wanted more than what he was giving. Also should be middle ground.)

The Middle Ground - For those players you can't go either way on

Sundstrom (He's been exactly what everyone thought he'd be....and it's pissing me off. He should be middle of this pack, but he'll be here strictly out of spite.)

Higgins (Smart two-way player. I wanted a few more goals, but hey. Rookie.)

Plekanec (Actually had the media claiming him future second line centerover Ribs. That is an accomplishment.)

Streit (Here...because despite his recent "okay" play, it doesn't make up for his "horrendous" play early on)

Ryder (Score goals. Excellent work.

Markov (He's improved in every way. I can't really ask for more.

Rivet (I expected a steady D that does everything adequately. Overachieved a bit offensively. He's knocked to middle ground because of his penalties which seem to happen at the worst possible times.)

Overachievers

Boullion (More offense than expected, even rewarded with powerplay time. Great from someone that should be a #7)

Begin (I expected a 4th line spark plug. I got a 3rd line spark plug. Showed a bit of a scoring touch early.)

Huet (I expected an okay backup. His numbers don't do him justice. He deserves more wins and has played very well.)

(If you feel like it, you can do what I did. That list is from Worst to Best. Theo is my greatest disappointment, Huet is my biggest surprise. God, that is sad.)

Edited by Trizzak
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The whole team pretty much overachieved the first 20 games of the season. There pretty much playing to their ability right now. THere might be a few underachievers likes Theodore, but this team pretty much sucks and there proving it right now. THere isn't much thats going to help this club.

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The whole team pretty much overachieved the first 20 games of the season. There pretty much playing to their ability right now. THere might be a few underachievers likes Theodore, but this team pretty much sucks and there proving it right now. THere isn't much thats going to help this club.

I think you're wrong. I know you're feeling pissed off right now(who isn't?) but your post implies that Bob should just forget the rest of the season and start trading players for prospects and picks. That isnt what is required. As Bob and everyone else knows we are lacking depth especially on the D. A couple of trades or an impact rookie(next season) and this will be a much better team.

While I didn't think that Bob was going to wave his magic wand behind the bench and all the problems that got CJ fired would disappear, I had hoped that the honeymoon would last a little longer. I'm still optimistic that the team will make the playoffs although a first round upset and a noble second round defeat seems the best we can hope for at this point.

It Theo were playing like he can we would be winning a lot more games

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I('m going to respectfully disagree, this team stinks, no one on the team plays hard consistantly, they are ok with losing. There is no leadership, i'm sure people will say Koivu and Rivet but if your content playing on a team that doesn't play hard and you don't call people out, or you play hard yourself, you're not much of a leader. This team needs a major shake up in personel, The core players need to be replaced by players who care about the front of the jersey not the name on the back. The OMLY reason this team made the playoffs the last few years in Theodore, like it or not, that's the truth. I would trade players aay for picks and prospects. This team is still a few years away from being a consistant winner.

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We have a playoff team, that's for sure. We don't suck, we're just not great. And Bulis is someone who works hard consistently. Not to mention Higgins, Plekanec, Kostitsyn, Murray, Ferland (all the rookies) and Begin. Koivu usually does too. Begin, Koivu, Rivet and Souray all have leadership so I don't think that's a problem. Our main problem has been injuries. Markov's injury will probably be worse than Kovalev and Koivu's. Let's just hope we start to win more games.

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I do agree that the rookies play hard every night, Leaders lead by example, only Koivu most of the time does that, your leaders Rivet, souray, take stupid penalties, don't play hard, don't stick up for team mates. I don't consider them leaders. Begin does normally play hard, i agree but even lately he hasn't been doing much either. I'll also respectfully disagree, this is not a playoff team, Theodore no longer stops all the mistakes made in front of him, this year all the goalies on this team have been hung out to dry way too often. Not to mention this team can only score 5 on 5 when they are down numerous goals.

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Kovalev and Markov can lead by example. Bouillon also plays hard every night and Ryder usually does too. You say RIvet and Souray don't stick up for teammates? They do every night. Just look at when Rivet tried to stop Souray from fighting in the Calgary game.

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So you expected MORE than a point per game out of Koivu and Kovalev?

And why is Dandenault so low? His +/- is tied for the best on the team among the regular D-men.

I also do not think Bouillon has any business at all being on the overachievers list. What has always been expected of him is that he plays his ass off every night. That is the norm from him. His numbers, however, are not good. He is tied for 2nd worst +/- on the team.

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Koivu used to give everything but not any more or at least I hope not because if he gave everything last night he does not got much left at all.

Kovalev for what the Habs are paying him has 10 goals, I know he is almost a point a game but that would only be sufficient if the team is winning. It just appears he does not work hard and uses his endless talent and creativity way to little. And although Ryder has 20 goals, who cares? He only plays hard 2 shifts a game if that. I don’t know what is wrong with these talented guys they just don’t it.

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So you expected MORE than a point per game out of Koivu and Kovalev?

And why is Dandenault so low? His +/- is tied for the best on the team among the regular D-men.

I also do not think Bouillon has any business at all being on the overachievers list. What has always been expected of him is that he plays his ass off every night. That is the norm from him. His numbers, however, are not good. He is tied for 2nd worst +/- on the team.

Yes. I expected better play than what I'm seeing. I expected a threat nearly every game. Do notice they are at the bottom of the Underachievers list. I don't expect too much more.

I expected slightly better offensive production out of Dandy. One goal that pinballs off your back or skate or face as you fall into the net doesn't really count.

Bouillon is an overachiever (barely) because he's putting in a bit more offense this year.

The whole team pretty much overachieved the first 20 games of the season. There pretty much playing to their ability right now. THere might be a few underachievers likes Theodore, but this team pretty much sucks and there proving it right now. THere isn't much thats going to help this club.

I disagree in that the team never really had something that they don't have now, except maybe a bit more heart. The offense wasn't there, the goaltending might have been a bit better...who overacheived individually? Begin? No one else really stands out.

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Remenber the last season (03-04) when the CH when to 7th place and made it to the second

round ? I few players did help more than some during that season,..yet I would have given

GM Gainey my personal accolade as the greatest contributeur to the team successes that year.

He did all the little things to make his team a better team,.....and it all worked out beautifully.

He bought-out some contracts right at the start, ( Czercaski, Audette ), and brought in Langdon, Begin, Dagenais and later Kovalev ( against prospect Balej ).

BUT for this season, if this first half thus far would prove to be representative of the whole season,....than Gainey, I am afraid would for me be,.... the under-acheiver par excellence.

Lets not forget, the conditions where excellent, even outstanding for him to really put his finger print on this

team this year and to up-lift it once and for all where it should belong.

Very favorably, plenty of rooms where left vacant at the end of the last season, many players where at the end of their contracts ( Juneau, Dackell, Perreault, Sundstrom, Quintal, Langdon, etc) and even more favorably, the choices of replacements would turn out to be the highest to ever happen in the league thus far,... UFAs would be supply by a factor of two seasons.........aditionnal free agents would be available from teams buying-out players players and of course we had a descent supply of of own young prospects to shosed

from,............conditions where pretty pretty good, as I said.

When the 2004 season was barely over Gainey did some questionable moves that would prove to carry negative consequences on our season........and then some.

Getting rid of Garon was like getting rid of half of our successfull goaltending tandem from our previous great season,......and this move as contribute in more ways than one to our fall.

Sacrificing this young low paid gemlike potentiel for Bonk made the whole thing even worse,......a fiasco might not be an exageration.

Bob wasn't done yet,....while the 04 UFAs where made avalaible he favored Sundstrom while other checker type players like Ian Laperriere would have seem an obviously better fit for our team.....or any teams that appreciate caractere players that skate well and can drop the gloves for a teamate.

And more,.... the downgrading of our defence this year is directly linked with Bob's decision in sept. 04 to send our solid and ready to go prospect D.man Francois Beauchemin back to Hamilton where he got snached off waiver by the Blue Jacket. Dont ask me why Bob didn't reclaim him by exclusive right when the Blue Jacket waived him again towards their own affiliate Club a few days later.....Bob could have...he should have.....Beauchemin is averaging more than 20 minutes per game playing with Niedermayer for the Mighty Duks and would have been of great benefice to our team this seasons.........and many more seasons to come.

In 05 it was clear what the New NHL would looks like,.... Bob had helped ingeneering it after all,.....yet he signed Dagenais as opposed of filling his spot for a sure UFA candidate so as to secure a little more this allready unpredictable second line, composed, lets not forget of two unproven sophomore( Ribeiro,Ryder) type players.

Bringing in poorly performing and innapropriate elements on one hand.....letting go of some of our new emerging home grown players in this new cap tight financial era on the other.....that is more than just a burden on our season.......it complicate everything else as well.

Bob is my under-performing man related to this season......to bad that injuries has made (and still making) matters even more difficult.

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I forget to mention the positive element of the equation.

Actually I am quite satisfied with a number of players and alot of them could shine brither

once the team get a few changes down here and there.

Rivet a must say as adapted better to the new game better than I thought he would.....in that sens

he is my over-acheiver.

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Underachievers

Theodore

Zednik

Dandenault

Bonk

Dagenais

Ribiero

Komisarek

Kovalev

Perezhogin (Unfair placement? Perhaps.)

Koivu

Bulis (I actually expected more offense. Silly me. He should be in the "middle ground.")

Souray (Also should be middle ground.)

The Middle Ground - For those players you can't go either way on

Sundstrom

Higgins

Plekanec

Streit (Here...because despite his recent "okay" play, it doesn't make up for his "horrendous" play early on)

Ryder

Markov

Rivet

Overachievers

Boullion

Begin

Huet

I'll post what I considered to be plausable expectations for each player sometime in the next day or two, but I would like to see others' lists as well.

Believe it or not, your list is strangely similar to mine. I completely agree with your assessment of Bouillon and Begin, and I'm glad you put Komisarek and Kovalev on the underachieving side. It seems some people are mesmerized by Kovy's skills, but remember, its not a skills competition out there. Areas of disagreement:

- Koivu (middle)

- Ribeiro (middle)

- Bulis (middle)

- Sundstrom (lower)

I'd also consider moving Souray, Ryder, and Markov up a rank, but its close. But anyways, its cool to find someone who echoes similar sentiments to mine.

-Dave

Edited by Dave from Vancouver
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Just a thought.... I'd like everyone to post who you think is overachieving and underachieving, based on what you thought they would do at the beginning of the year compared to what they've done up to midseason. I like to think I set realistic goals for the players in my mind, and you'll notice that most of them involve offense.

Underachievers

Theodore (Current worth of play nowhere near equal to contract length and amount)

Zednik (I expected Zednik. Where is he? Anyone know?)

Dandenault (I thought the new NHL was practically formatted with him in mind. I thought he would thrive. I thought he would score more than once.)

Bonk (I recognize that he was brought in to be a 3rd line center, but I expected him to push Ribiero for the second line spot. Also, even 3rd line centers put goals in the net.

Dagenais (I honestly expected him to compete for the second line all season. He didn't.)

Ribiero (Maturity, and slight defensive improvement. *sigh* I'll keep waiting.)

----From here, everyone could probably be put on the Middle Ground, but they've still disappointed me a bit.

Komisarek (I recognize he is young, but I figured he'd have developed a tad quicker, not to mention scored once by now.)

Kovalev (Domination. Consistency.)

Perezhogin (Unfair placement? Perhaps. Julien didn't help him, but really, he practically disappeared when not being on the top line. He's gotta show something when elsewhere.)

Koivu (With a real winger on at least one side of him, I thought he'd average more than a point per game. Admittedly, that was probably a lofty goal.)

Bulis (I actually expected more offense. Silly me. He should be in the "middle ground.")

Souray (Personal problems aside, I wanted more than what he was giving. Also should be middle ground.)

The Middle Ground - For those players you can't go either way on

Sundstrom (He's been exactly what everyone thought he'd be....and it's pissing me off. He should be middle of this pack, but he'll be here strictly out of spite.)

Higgins (Smart two-way player. I wanted a few more goals, but hey. Rookie.)

Plekanec (Actually had the media claiming him future second line centerover Ribs. That is an accomplishment.)

Streit (Here...because despite his recent "okay" play, it doesn't make up for his "horrendous" play early on)

Ryder (Score goals. Excellent work.

Markov (He's improved in every way. I can't really ask for more.

Rivet (I expected a steady D that does everything adequately. Overachieved a bit offensively. He's knocked to middle ground because of his penalties which seem to happen at the worst possible times.)

Overachievers

Boullion (More offense than expected, even rewarded with powerplay time. Great from someone that should be a #7)

Begin (I expected a 4th line spark plug. I got a 3rd line spark plug. Showed a bit of a scoring touch early.)

Huet (I expected an okay backup. His numbers don't do him justice. He deserves more wins and has played very well.)

(If you feel like it, you can do what I did. That list is from Worst to Best. Theo is my greatest disappointment, Huet is my biggest surprise. God, that is sad.)

Edited in what I thought they could do.

For the underachievers, it's mostly about offense. Imagine that!

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