Koivu Re-Signed

[jetsniper]

True, but with the salary Turgeon was getting paid..the performance didn't really equate. And on Boucher, that's correct, he is a solid contributor.

Not only was he on the 3rd line, they used him as a LW. He's playing on a low line out of his natural position. Dallas just mis-used Pierre is all. He gets moved back to his natural position here and voila, instant production.

[Trizzak]

Koivu overpayed? Perhaps, but not by much. For those that say he's never won anything as a habs...well...he's never really had the team around him to win anything. He is a top line talent that perenially plays with poor players. He makes lesser guys better, and showed he could do more with a teammate of similar calibre last year in Kovalev. Plus, he is a playoff performer. He hasn't had many chances to show it because he hasn't consistently had the team to be there with him.

Newsflash: It takes more than one player to get a team to the playoffs. Oh...*is handed a piece of paper* and this just in, it takes more than one player to get a team to WIN in the playoffs.

One thing that was a constant last playoffs was production from the first line. You can't blame Koivu for the second line disappearing during the Tampa series.

Is he worth the contract? Not quite, but I am not complaining.

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

You mean like when Saku played for the AHL Canadiens a couple of years back and made everyone so good that the team actually made the playoffs? You remember the stellar talent, right? Juha Lind? Johan Witehall? Yzerman and Sakic never had it that bad.

Please don't put Koivu in the same category as Sakic and Yzerman, he doesn't come close to them. It's an insult to the these 2 great players

They had it worst then Koivu and were playing for a last place team for years, unlike Koivu, but at least they finished in the top scorers by them selves...something Koivu as never done. Also, Koivu did play with guys like Recchi, so it did have good wingers to play with.

Koivu's game was better with Kovalev, but that is because of Kovy, who is a much more talented player then Koivu.

Koivu may play with a lot of heart and determination, but pure talent wise, the guy is slightly above average and nothing more. He as a very weak shot. As often trouble with faceoffs. He's small, so even when he plays rough, it's like is just tapping the guy on the shoulder. Guys are not intimitaded one second by him. He does have a good 2-way hockey sens and makes decent passes but that's it.

I still think that it's a lot of money for character and work ethics, because the talent is not worth that kind of money. 4M$/year would have been way enough...in fact it's still being generous in my opinion.

Jokinen was offered 4M$/year by the Panthers. He turned it down, but at least it shows that the 4.75M$ of Koivu is ridiculous. Jokinen is ten times better. He most be laughing so hard after seeing Koivu's contract...he's gonna get around 6M$ now. If he signs for around 5M$, it shows that we way overpaid Koivu who is half the player Jokinen is.

[BTH]

Gotta roll my eyes at half the crap written in here.

Koivu, when surrounded by proper personnel (meaning he gets first line wingers, not second line guys - the only way to get Ribs to do anything useful was to give him the Russian pair, and having a REAL second line behind him), will bring you at least a point-per-game. It can be argued, of course, but Gainey obviously believes it, and frankly, I think it's pretty damned evident.

But what Koivu brings to the table doesn't stop there. I laughed at whomever said that Koivu played half-assed last night - because his style of play and what he brings to each shift is a huge element in the $$ figure that Gainey gave to him. Koivu is a Gainey type of player. He brings it every shift. He's a heart-and-soul guy and if you look around the NHL, I think you'd have a *very* hard time finding more than a handful of that type of player. You have to build your team around someone, so why not someone with skills who has your team tattooed on his heart?

But even that isn't the full story. Gainey was the captain of this franshise for a good number of years, and you'd think he'd have a pretty good idea of what type of player and person would make a great leader. Now, I kow the French media absolutely *love* to show their abject ignorance and fervent wish that Ribeiro be recognized as the Number One Player In Hockey as he so obviously is (someone please collect my eyes, they rolled right out of my head), but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest to the fans that perhaps we should be listening to what Gainey is saying with regards to hockey, and not what Demers and Pedneault are bellowing. (Anyone else getting a little tired of Pedneault praising Ribs for every tiny little thing he does while slapping Koivu for even a marginal play? Thanks for the unbiased commentary you waste of food for starving people in Africa.) This kind of leadership - the heart tattooed with the CH and the consistently high calibre of play - is a rare gem in hockey, and it most definitely factors into the dollar figure that Koivu is getting?

Now, add to that the fact that the cap is going up by quite a bit (potentially to $46M) and the number makes perfect sense. It's exactly the same as signing him for $4 million under the current cap rules, which most of the whiners seemed to agree was at the top of the "fair" scale for resigning him.

Perhaps the best news of all in this signing is that we finally get to keep a class act and solid player in Montreal rather than having him run out of town by the French media and drunken boo-birds. And a no-trade clause to boot; brilliance. Maybe all those people who think Ribs should be the King (read: Queen) of the Universe will cease to be fans when Ribs leaves via the front door over the summer (can't get rid of Bonk with his salary/talent combo (and who also has size), Plex is a kid with upside - and Gainey said we'll win with the kids, and that means that when Gainey goes looking for another centre, it will be Ribs taking the fall, bu-bye) and we can therefore enjoy the Habs without listening to the nonsense rhetoric from the uneducated boors who try to run the team from their TV's (hello 110% and RDS) and on their backs at the top of the stands (hic).

This is *by far* the best move Gainey has done since stepping in and proves once and for all that he's committed to winning in Montreal, and not letting the wannabe's rule the show from the sidelines. In fact, I'd go as far as to say this is the most refreshing news to come out of Montreal in a good long time. (Anyone else have a good laugh at RDS who couldn't even mention it until the very end of the second intermission, while the resignings of Ribeiro and Theodore were highlight quality stuff? "How dare they resign that non-French captain who isn't half as good as Ribeiro and can't even hold Theo's Propecia-covered cap!" (And what idiot, by the way, wears a HAT when they're worried about losing hair! Hey Theo, here's yer sign.)

It's great news to hear that Koivu's been resigned for 3 years and that he'll retire in Montreal. No one's arguing that or mad because he was resigned. But Gainey's job is to get Koivu for as little as he can and he wasn't even close. Koivu isn't getting any younger. Next season he will be a little worse than he is now and the year after that a little worse than that. So why should he make so much more than he's making this season? His 3.42M is a good salary for him. I wouldn't mind a 3-year/$3.5M/NTC. That being said, losing Koivu isn't an option. He's the core of our team and Gainey has to go to lengths to resign him. It would be horrible for him to go. But only if he can stay in a better way. Like I said before Saku was signed, I'm still wondering whether Koivu's contract will hurt the team or improve it.

But no matter what the turn out... GO HABS GO! :hlogo:

[brobin]

Gotta roll my eyes at half the crap written in here.

Koivu, when surrounded by proper personnel (meaning he gets first line wingers, not second line guys - the only way to get Ribs to do anything useful was to give him the Russian pair, and having a REAL second line behind him), will bring you at least a point-per-game. It can be argued, of course, but Gainey obviously believes it, and frankly, I think it's pretty damned evident.

What? Koivu has always had the best wingers on the team, the most PP time, and the best defense behind him. Still, he has not been able to consistently break a point a game. Meanwhile, Ribs out scored him last season with Ryder and Dags, yet you claim Ribs only does well with good wingers.. /boggle.

So Ryder is our number one scorer and has been moved up to play with Koivu. Ryder and Koivu have sucked ever since. Yes Kovalev moved back with Ribs, and has played better. So why do you state that Koivu is the MAN. It appears that Ribs made Ryder better, makes Kovalev better, etc. I do believe Ribs is the better play maker then Koivu. Koivu is a better grinder and scorer the Ribs when he is working his tale off. Lately, Koivu has looked slow and had trouble controlling the play.

Ribs aside, Koivu has not looked very good since the first couple of months of the year. He has never had a huge season (if it is not injuries, he goes into slumps) and has not averaged a point a game. Even if he did, a point a game is not great for the best player on your team. That doesn't even get you in the top 20 in the league.

If Koivu wants to be our number one guy, I expect him to average 1.2 points a game and actually play 70 games or more a year. Otherwise we need to move him to the number two spot and pay him appropriately.

By the way, no Player deserves a no trade clause in my opinion. A high price, three year term and no- trade clause basically ties this teams hands.

[Huckleberry]

Seems pricey to me. Considering, I think Koivu would be best suited for the second line. However, heart and determination goes a long way on a winning team. Still, it seems like a lot to take away from attracting a new, younger center 1st line.

[KEEP26]

I am dissappointed as that is first center money. I just don't see Koivu being our number one center if this team is going to become a cup contender. I could see him as a key member of the team and a number two center, but our hands will be tied.

If Koivu wanted that much money I would have let him go and signed a better number one center as a free agent. Worse, he got a no trade clause.

In other words we just tied up about 10 percent of the team's salary for a guy who will probably average less then 60 points a season. If you are dissapointed in Theo's salary and how it handicaps the team, wait a year and see what you think if Koivu's decline continues.

I hope I am wrong about him. Maybe he will get better, but I doubt it. He is a small, frisky center with pretty good skills, but has never really broken out of that average "number one center" level.

Saku is going to have to play much better then he has this year to warrent that contract, imo. People complain about ribs who makes peanuts compared with Saku and is only a few points behind....

Ah well, i wish the best for Koivu, but from a team perspective i think this was a mistake that will ensure we stay at the level we are now for another few years.

ibs might make only 1 and a bit but he is use less,no heart,no drive, and as a big mouth..every thing koivu not, i cant believe you compare the two

[brobin]

ibs might make only 1 and a bit but he is use less,no heart,no drive, and as a big mouth..every thing koivu not, i cant believe you compare the two

Why would I not compare them. They are our two main centers. I am not saying I would not upgrade Ribs if we had a better center available, but he is hardly useless. Heart, drive, what ever, the fact remains that Koivu is not producing that much more then Ribs, so if Ribs is useless, Koivu can't be much better.

The reality is that neither of them are useless. Both of them have strengths and weaknesses. I would take Koivu in his prime over Ribs right now in a heartbeat, but Koivu is not in his prime anymore.

My issue is that Rib's contract allows us to afford a real number one center. A big guy with speed, skills, etc. Unfortunately, Koivu's contract means that guy is Koivu, which does not improve us in any way. My preference has always been to either replace Koivu, or replace him as a number one center and move him to number two, replacing Ribs.

Ribs is having what I consider to be an off season for him (in terms of PPG), but he did play through that entire team slump while Koivu did not. Since the team has turned it around, Ribs is getting a point per game and Koivu has been a minus player. I don't think that is good enough for a guy making Koivu money.

As for Koivu's vaunted leadership, heart, etc... Well, I will state up front that Koivu has been my favourite player since he got to Montreal (I was there the day he blew out his knee the first time), but the fact remains he has never led this team to greatness, or even put on the kind of performances true star players do. Even on crappier teams, Crosby, etc have shown they were top talent players. So I don't buy the "poor koivu never had good wingers" argument. He has had good wingers. He has always been above average, he has never been great.

[smon]

It's preposterous to suggest that Ribiero has produced better than Koivu. Koivu has 39pts in 46 gp, Ribs has 35pts in 54...not to mention a by far team worst -12.

Obviously Ribiero is not completely useless. But a team relying on him is destined for failure.

Is there a reason why Saku Koivu is the numero uno? Yes, because there aren't better options available. Imagine if as in your dream, Koivu was allowed to walk as an UFA - then what? Would you really be satisfied with Ribs as #1? Where would our new #1 centre come from? You're just hoping that guys like Jokinen and Arnott will hit the UFA market..and that's not a guarantee. Arnott really has no reason to leave Dallas, and he's not a #1 anyway. If Jokinen cant come to terms with Florida, they'll trade him to a team that will pay him.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I can't believe people are complaining about this. To suggest that Ribs could/should be our #1 center is absolutely ridiculous.

It doesn't matter what Bob does, there are people who will complain.

Ribs as our #1 :puke: :nono: :lool:

[Prime Minister Koivu]

http://www.canadiens.com/eng/news/redirect...newsItemID=4804

Some great comments from Koivu:

The shared philosophy of both Gainey and coach-in-waiting Guy Carbonneau has not gone unnoticed by Koivu.

“On the hockey side of things with Bob now, and having Carbo becoming head coach soon, I think we're really on the right track with the approach they’re taking towards the game,” admitted Koivu. “Knowing that they’re both behind me just makes a huge difference. They’re some of the greatest leaders you’ll find anywhere. There’s so much I can learn from them that can hopefully make me a better player, a better person and a better captain. Having those two guys behind the bench is something that makes me really confident and I think this team is headed in the right direction. I just knew that I wanted to be a part of it.”

[Strummerman]

And Detroit should NEVER EVER have resigned that forward guy who was their captain - he never did win a damn thing... what was his name? Quiet guy, did all his talking in his play... hmmm.. Steve Yzerman?

OH WAIT! He did win eventually when they put quality around him! And suddenly, he was also called one of the best leaders in the game!

And you know who else is injured every year? Yeah, half the talented players in the game.

oh yeah good comparison Yzerman and Koivu let's compare stats- the same Yzerman that got 58, 50,62 , 65 goals in a season before he was 30 and Koivu who even got 21 goals one year the highest he ever got- wow they are siamese twins- yeah stevie Y was injured every year when he scored all those goals- or was he injured every year after he won all those cups ??? :?-

Yzerman

Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM

1981-82 Peterborough Petes OHL 58 21 43 64 65 6 0 1 1 16

1982-83 Peterborough Petes OHL 56 42 49 91 33 4 1 4 5 0

1983-84 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 39 48 87 33 4 3 3 6 0

1984-85 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 30 59 89 58 3 2 1 3 2

1985-86 Detroit Red Wings NHL 51 14 28 42 16 -- -- -- -- --

1986-87 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 31 59 90 43 16 5 13 18 8

1987-88 Detroit Red Wings NHL 64 50 52 102 44 3 1 3 4 6

1988-89 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 65 90 155 61 6 5 5 10 2

1989-90 Detroit Red Wings NHL 79 62 65 127 79 -- -- -- -- --

1990-91 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 51 57 108 34 7 3 3 6 4

1991-92 Detroit Red Wings NHL 79 45 58 103 64 11 3 5 8 12

1992-93 Detroit Red Wings NHL 84 58 79 137 44 7 4 3 7 4

1993-94 Detroit Red Wings NHL 58 24 58 82 36 3 1 3 4 0

1994-95 Detroit Red Wings NHL 47 12 26 38 40 15 4 8 12 0

1995-96 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 36 59 95 64 18 8 12 20 4

1996-97 Detroit Red Wings NHL 81 22 63 85 78 20 7 6 13 4

1997-98 Detroit Red Wings NHL 75 24 45 69 46 22 6 18 24 22

1998-99 Detroit Red Wings NHL 80 29 45 74 42 10 9 4 13 0

1999-00 Detroit Red Wings NHL 78 35 44 79 34 8 0 4 4 0

2000-01 Detroit Red Wings NHL 54 18 34 52 18 1 0 0 0 0

2001-02 Detroit Red Wings NHL 52 13 35 48 18 23 6 17 23 10

2002-03 Detroit Red Wings NHL 16 2 6 8 8 4 0 1 1 2

2003-04 Detroit Red Wings NHL 75 18 33 51 46 11 3 2 5 0

2005-06 Detroit Red Wings NHL 39 6 10 16 14

NHL Totals 1492 684 1053 1737 920 192 70 111 181 80

Koivu

1995-96 Montreal Canadiens NHL 82 20 25 45 40 6 3 1 4 8

1996-97 Montreal Canadiens NHL 50 17 39 56 38 5 1 3 4 10

1997-98 Montreal Canadiens NHL 69 14 43 57 48 6 2 3 5 2

1998-99 Montreal Canadiens NHL 65 14 30 44 38 -- -- -- -- --

1999-00 Montreal Canadiens NHL 24 3 18 21 14 -- -- -- -- --

2000-01 Montreal Canadiens NHL 54 17 30 47 40 -- -- -- -- --

2001-02 Montreal Canadiens NHL 3 0 2 2 0 12 4 6 10 4

2002-03 Montreal Canadiens NHL 82 21 50 71 72 -- -- -- -- --

2003-04 Montreal Canadiens NHL 68 14 41 55 52 11 3 8 11 10

2004-05 TPS Turku FNL 20 8 8 16 28 6 3 2 5

Edited February 14, 2006 by Strummerman

[The Saint]

Thanks for sharing the great quote PMK.

This is what i was referring to earlier, the Leadership skills that this team has will be effective over time. They are gathering support form the vets to the youth and bringing this team together from within. The GM and Coach need a player/players on the inside to "sell" their message.

Clearly Gainey and Carbo know that Saku can be their guy. This team is coming together and I look forward to a better future! And who says we can't get another top centre if need be? Cap is going up, not down and moves can be made, if necessary. Another steady hard-hitting D-man would be great, unless Komi finally decides or realizes it's his job, when he wants it!

Go Habs Go! Enjoy the break and come back ready to rip it up!

Peace

[Strummerman]

You mean like when Saku played for the AHL Canadiens a couple of years back and made everyone so good that the team actually made the playoffs? You remember the stellar talent, right? Juha Lind? Johan Witehall? Yzerman and Sakic never had it that bad.

yeah I guess when John Ogrodnick got 50 goals in one season it was cause he was an all-star nothing to do with Stevie Y

[JMMR]

Great comments.

I hope that Koivu continues to push himself to become a better player and captain. His pre playoff stretch performance will be very important again this year he must do whatever necessary to push his team into the playoffs.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Can you say "STANLEY CUP"?

Saks WILL :hlogo: hoist the cup

[sbhatt]

Good point, Strumm....comparing Koivu to Yzerman is preposterous....isn't even on the same level.

[Lister110]

Forget Ribeiro, French media, salary caps and whatever else lame bullshit that can be brought to the floor in justification of Koivu's contract. He is not a great player and not worth that much money with a no trade clause. Thank you all of those whom pointed out the comparison between Sakic and Yzerman.

Everyone likes Koivu for his past glories and his love for Montreal, but if he really wants to be here he should have settled for less with the no trade clause. At the salary and duration he's signed for we can't exactly shuffle him under the rug. And once fans turn on him we won't be able to trade him away. He looks like a tired player, his body language no longer communicates leadership and he is slower and takes bad penalties. Right now is the time to make the appraisal of his true value and future, giving him a fair deal or letting him go. You don't wait until the cracks come apart and become so glaringly obvious that all can see. That's how you wind up stuck with the Perreaults Audettes and Theodores, counting down the years till you can get rid of them. I would have been far more impressed with Bob had he given Theodore the brass taxes and the same is now true of Koivu.

This team has never spent up the cap level of 39 million to my knowledge and will not likely go that high even if the cap goes 100 million. Unless the Habs have found a windfall of money and are prepared to throw it at another star forward and a first rate D, we are looking at many more years of frustration (God only knows what we're going to do about goaltending. Huet's great but how long can he last?).

We would have been better off looking for a great player, whenever one becomes available, at an even higher price than signing Koivu at this price. A new wave of Doug Gilmour types are already out there and Koivu will bit by bit pale by comparison. Once people get annoyed of his age slowing him down and start booing, Koivu will be in the unenviable position of finishing his career on a bad note. Not the way I would have wanted to see this great human being finish up. His greed, like Theodore will be his undoing.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Lister110

[Strummerman]

Good point, Strumm....comparing Koivu to Yzerman is preposterous....isn't even on the same level.

believe me being a Habs fan I would love for Koivu to lift that Cup- but you gotta stop thinking Koivu is a superstar- he isnt- he is a competitor I think and he wants to win bad and Gainey was a competitor when he played and he didnt have great stats either- but Gainey was no Lafleur and Koivu is no Stevie Y

Back to the contract no Koivu didnt deserve that contract- but the reality is maybe a superstar other than Crosby might not want to come here.

[simonus]

This team has never spent up the cap level of 39 million to my knowledge and will not likely go that high even if the cap goes 100 million. Unless the Habs have found a windfall of money and are prepared to throw it at another star forward and a first rate D, we are looking at many more years of frustration (God only knows what we're going to do about goaltending. Huet's great but how long can he last?).

i dont know what this means. This is the first yr of the cap. They were spending more than 39 million beforehand and I think they were top 10 of spending. If they dont spend to the cap it is mostly for breathing room.

[The Saint]

It is all too easy for arm-chair GM's to focus on numbers and statistics, without giving ANY validity to things that are, shall we say, less tangible and measurable.

Saku's signing is also a symbol to some of the younger guys, who will decide one day if they should stay or leave. You think they may remember something like this?

[KoZed]

I'm personnaly leaning toward the side that thinks Saku does'n't deserve that contract right now. Neither will he be worth that contract in the future. This season has really exposed how injuries and cancer have taken a toll on Saku's body.

The new NHL was created for small & crafty players like him, yet Saku looks worse now than he ever did. He would be suited for 2nd lines duties and some PP time. Yet he's getting paid 1st-liner money.

As far as the personnal side goes, everyone likes Saku. But he didn't show too much leadership this season, especially when the team was in a slump. And for a guy who had been captain of Montreal Canadiens for so long, you'd think he would have somehow tried to be able to communicate a little in the official language of his adoptive city and province. Disregard any justifications, the results are the same in the end.

That being said, money is not always for the present and the future. Its often a reward for the past as well. I think this is what this contract represents. Saku's been in Montreal through the very lows, often been the only forward worth the ticket's price and came back from countless injuries. And dont forget that Saku always agreed to short and inexpensive contracts.

So for all Saku did in the past, I think he deserves that contract. Sure its weird that he gets that much money and a NTC as he's showing signs of slowing down, but after being underpaid and badly surrounded for so many years, he deserves some type of payback.

[JMMR]

Very nice post KoZed very well said or should I say typed.

This will indeed make Saku more accountable if this team does not progressively get better over the course of his contract.

[Mont Royale]

Everyone likes Koivu for his past glories and his love for Montreal, but if he really wants to be here he should have settled for less with the no trade clause.

Why?

That's nonsensical. He really wanted to be here, and didn't have to settle for less! I suppose you would have said, "No, Bob, I don't want that much - pay me less."

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Kaberle is going to be paid 4.25.

If that is the real market value for him then Koivu's contract is in line.

How can we even put a number on players? We as fans have no idea what we are talking about when it comes to money. We look at other player's contracts and compare. You can't compare a new contract in a new CBA with an old contract.