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World Politics (democracy In Iraq)


johnnyhasbeen

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Just a quick thought on why America will have no luck installing their system of democracy in Iraq. For a democracy to work there must first be a belief by the people that all are created equal. There are sectors of people over there that don't believe this. They are above thier neighbors who believe different than they do. Without equality there is and can be no democracy.

Solutions

a: divide the country into smaller provinces each with its own governments, division by religion.

b: reinstall a "friend" of the USA as an "elected official" and let them solve it in the street, no wait, this one isn't working.

c: walk away from it and let them sort it out, no wait, and leave the oil behind? no

d: disprove the existance of god( or any other higher power), thereby solving half the worlds hatred problems.

I go with version D. I will personally stand on a stage with the worlds cameras watching, challenge "god" (just typing that word makes me chuckle) to a show down. Either he strikes me down on the spot with lightning or everybody stops believing in him. If it was to go down I feel very confident I will walk away unscathed. What is a more stupid reason to hate somebody for than, his imaginary friend isn't the same as mine. Mass ######ation of the public through brainwashing. It must be and will eventually be disproved. The time is now.

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a lot of smart people believe in god or some religion.

USA did not start out their democracy with an essential belief in the equality of all religions or races although guys like Jefferson were quite good at trying to eliminate most of the religion issues.

How much of a positive image would america be leaving behind if we form 3-4 seperate countries? Look how well partitions have worked throughout recent history - Jordan/Israel, Pakistan/India, etc... how would a partition further our attempt to show that different religions can co-exist? Also, aside from the Kurds, I don't know how geographically segregated the different groups in Iraq are...

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A lot of geniuses believe in god, by many names. No dispute to that. But I believe it to be a Santa/Easter Bunny story that for some reason people tend to carry into grown-up life. maybe we feel we need a reason to be good and fear of the after life gives us this reason?

Anyway, just ranting because innocent people are once again being killed in Iraq, this time not by an organised gov't but by hate killings all the same and not better or worse in my eyes, just senseless death through blind, taught hatred.

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People are killed every day for thousands of reasons. That is something that will probably never change as the human race has the ability and the means to kill others. On the God issue I have wrestled with it for a long time now but then I realized the Habs have won 24 cups and the leafs have not won a cup since 1967 hence there must be a God and he must be a Canadiens fan.

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People are killed every day for thousands of reasons. That is something that will probably never change as the human race has the ability and the means to kill others. On the God issue I have wrestled with it for a long time now but then I realized the Habs have won 24 cups and the leafs have not won a cup since 1967 hence there must be a God and he must be a Canadiens fan.

Halleluja!!

I finally see the light!!!

Honestly, that is the best argument for the existance I have heard yet.

Thank you for making a grump smile.

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Sextuple post. :blink: Record?

A showdown between you and God? :unsure: I guarantee you'd win but I'd also guarantee that not one Arab would care.

The only valid argument I've yet to see for the existence of God is that if he can do anything than nothing can stop him from existing. Kinda tricky but I guess it's a personal choice whether to believe in a magic man who lives in the sky. I'm slightly undecided though.

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Last statistic I heard was that 95% of the planet believes in a higher being in some form. May I wish those who want it very good luck in eradicating God/Allah/Budda/etc.

Fascinating discussion in the religion thing, but not for hockey boards - even the lounge, I think. ;)

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a: divide the country into smaller provinces each with its own governments, division by religion.

b: reinstall a "friend" of the USA as an "elected official" and let them solve it in the street, no wait, this one isn't working.

c: walk away from it and let them sort it out, no wait, and leave the oil behind? no

d: disprove the existance of god( or any other higher power), thereby solving half the worlds hatred problems.

I go with version D.

A wont work .. just ask Pakistan and India!

B WOnt work because anything the US touch is on short term notice NAME one country that hasnt backfired!

C The only logical answer! Lets got Solar and WindPower let THe Oil Companies lose their money!

D Then you will get the other half of the world to fight ...that didnt go to war because of a God to begin with! So same DooDoo

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The sad truth is that Irak was far more stable under a secular irakian dictator than under the "liberation forces" of a democratic foreign invador.

This was doom from the start anyway. You can't "implement" democracy as if it was just some hockey game plan. Look at Haïti, they've been trying to work it out there and they're still struggling.

And even if they somehow try to have a minimum of stability in Irak, as soon as the colonialists-like American forces will pull out, the country will fall apart just as every African colony did when European imperialists pulled out.

The only solution is for US troops to stay in Irak for decades and decades to educate new generations and give the masses the impression that democracy is the lesser of all evils.

If the Bush Administration thought Irak might be a fertile ground for terrorists activities under Saddam, they've got far worse coming if they pull out of a nation on the brink of civil and religious war.

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Other countries, like France for instance, have unsuccessfully tried to "liberate" middle East countries in the past, and they have given up a long time ago, which partly explains why none of them wanted to participate in this "war". They knew what was coming because they have had to deal with crazy suicide bombers before, but the US clearly underestimated just how dedicated some Arab extremists are.

The larger portion of the Iraki population would welcome democracy, but it's those small but powerful groups that make change so difficult. In North America we have hippies; there are annoying and a small pain in the butt, but they are easy to deal with. Over there, they are ready to die just to take a couple American soldiers with them, and somehow, they have no problem recruiting new members.

Although I was against the war in Irak, if the US-led forces can succeed where everyone else has failed, it would most probably indeed lead to a better world. The middle East is a very unstable part of the world, and Irak is pretty much in the middle of it; a shot of democratic stability could spread over other regions. However, although the end did not justify the means, now that it's to late to back down, they better get to those means...

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The larger portion of the Iraki population would welcome democracy, but it's those small but powerful groups that make change so difficult. In North America we have hippies; there are annoying and a small pain in the butt, but they are easy to deal with. Over there, they are ready to die just to take a couple American soldiers with them, and somehow, they have no problem recruiting new members.

Interesting fact on that note is that they actually have schools and classes that teach you how to be a "proper" suicide bomber. And the classes are always overflowing with people.

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Hate to Burst everyone's bubble here... None of those African countries were that ######ed up to begin with ... meaning the hell that you all see was brought by us Europeans (white honkies)... and of course we were there to Exploit resources to begin with! and when its not worth it we leave! The same exact thing repeats itself now in the Middle east

(called Colonialism) still exists today! ====>

Irak obtained stability through Terror and oppression which Was backed up by the US (back in the Irak IRan war) when we were allies with Hussein.

Now more than 2200 US soldiers have died and No one really knows how many Irakies have died. Reports indicate at least 15 000 irakies have died its more like 25 000 other reports say.. and the numbers grow daily

Now its Civil War in IRak! which will probably end up with the country dividing into at least two! with Thousands of more deaths to come!

And then we ask ourselves why Iran would want nuclear weapons???

More than 3/4 of the world lives in a more dangerous reality than we do! a bomb going off next door or a band of Paramilitaries lynching your neighbors

We can only be so Lucky and at the same time Blind that we can sit and write about Hockey when 3000 kids die of hunger each day!

Lets stick to being GM in Hockey and not go and be GM of the world ( like the Us and UK) when we have no clue to whats reality!

Edited by CoRvInA
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Just a quick thought on why America will have no luck installing their system of democracy in Iraq. For a democracy to work there must first be a belief by the people that all are created equal. There are sectors of people over there that don't believe this. They are above thier neighbors who believe different than they do. Without equality there is and can be no democracy.

Solutions

a: divide the country into smaller provinces each with its own governments, division by religion.

b: reinstall a "friend" of the USA as an "elected official" and let them solve it in the street, no wait, this one isn't working.

c: walk away from it and let them sort it out, no wait, and leave the oil behind? no

d: disprove the existance of god( or any other higher power), thereby solving half the worlds hatred problems.

I go with version D. I will personally stand on a stage with the worlds cameras watching, challenge "god" (just typing that word makes me chuckle) to a show down. Either he strikes me down on the spot with lightning or everybody stops believing in him. If it was to go down I feel very confident I will walk away unscathed. What is a more stupid reason to hate somebody for than, his imaginary friend isn't the same as mine. Mass ######ation of the public through brainwashing. It must be and will eventually be disproved. The time is now.

Proving and disproving the existence of God... on what basis for either side of that? One can neither prove nor disprove this kind of thing especially using rational or scientific thought or methodology. One can only say that 'these facts indicate that...' or 'there is evidence that...'. It all falls into the same realm of trying to 'prove' reincarnation or life after death. It just can't be PROVEN or DISPROVEN. Proving the non-existence of 'God or some other higher power' is something that has only been accomplished in Ursula LeGuinn kind of science fiction novels.

May I be so bold as to say that the YES or the NO of this question rest finally in the hands of faith just as the YES or the NO of the validity of evolution and all of its associated Saganian 'truths' or facts.

Edited by shortcat1
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Proving and disproving the existence of God

... on what basis for either side of that? One can neither prove nor disprove this kind of thing especially using rational or scientific thought or methodology. One can only say that 'these facts indicate that...' or 'there is evidence that...'. It all falls into the same realm of trying to 'prove' reincarnation or life after death. It just can't be PROVEN or DISPROVEN. Proving the non-existence of 'God or some other higher power' is something that has only been accomplished in Ursula LeGuinn kind of science fiction novels.

May I be so bold as to say that the YES or the NO of this question rest finally in the hands of faith just as the YES or the NO of the validity of evolution and all of its associated Saganian 'truths' or facts.

I think the object of one's belief matters less than the act of believing in itself. The latter is a vital, essential, natural process of the psyche. One does not "Dont believe in God", one "Believes in the absence of God".

The problem is not to believe in something, the problem is to reject a conflicting belief, in oneself or in others. And to bastardize and corrupt its experience by seeking the security of dogmatic limits, which is the ultimate paradox of religion. So you end up with masses of religious people who externalizes conflicts that should naturally be faced within one's soul.

Edited by KoZed
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  • 3 weeks later...
The sad truth is that Irak was far more stable under a secular irakian dictator than under the "liberation forces" of a democratic foreign invador.

That's kinda funny. Democratic? Republic, for starters. Democratic in spirit? Well, they can declare zones where free speech is not allowed, they wire tap whomever they please, they break democratically set laws to go to war when it's illegal. Guantanamo Bay? Abe Graive (sp?)? It's a fear society that's now controlled by the government. Democracy? There's little of that left south of the border. Everything that they supposedly hold dear and are apparently trying to defend around the world is quickly going up in smoke in their own home. Quite simply, Bush and his cronies are dangerously close to that which they purport to hate.

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  • 4 weeks later...
That's kinda funny. Democratic? Republic, for starters. Democratic in spirit? Well, they can declare zones where free speech is not allowed, they wire tap whomever they please, they break democratically set laws to go to war when it's illegal. Guantanamo Bay? Abe Graive (sp?)? It's a fear society that's now controlled by the government. Democracy? There's little of that left south of the border. Everything that they supposedly hold dear and are apparently trying to defend around the world is quickly going up in smoke in their own home. Quite simply, Bush and his cronies are dangerously close to that which they purport to hate.

Nah, Bush and his cronies managed to out-stink "that which they purport to hate" a long time ago.

Atleast the Hussein family's cruelty was visible by everyone. Bush surpasses Hussein in most areas, however he is still widely regarded as the "leader of the free world".

Sorry if none of this makes sense... It's my midnight rant and I'm about to go to sleep.

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