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Koivu on his way out?


ch_nl

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With Koivu's history of missing 20+ games every year, not to mention the cancer... I think that hurts his value significantly.

So it's hard to figure out what he`s really worth... and what we can realistically expect in return for him.

Peca is a good replacement for Juneau on the 3rd line next year... the problem is for the rest of this year Juneau is still here.

And that leaves us a hole at #1 center... a hole we hopefully fill with a big, talented body.

That's important because our prospect wingers (Higgins, Perezhogin, Kastitsyn, Balej...) aren't exactly big.

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So you don't think that Ribeiro or Peca could play at the no.1 center?

As I see it, Peca for Koivu may be good. We add size but may lose playmaking. I wouldn't cry but I wouldn't scream of happiness.

But if we could get Hamrlik as well, then it's a diffrent story.

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Maybe that's the problem.

Canadien-fans love Saku Koivu that much that they sometimes are blinded.

He doesn't give us franchise center numbers. He plays with his heart, he has great skill but he's injuried a lot and is he really a good capitain?

Peca would add some toughness. We would miss Koivus playmaking ability, but couldn't that hole be filled by Ribeiro?

And wouldn't it be great to have a real number one defenceman? And at the same time lose Rivet, wich everybody seems to dislike?

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It really depends on which Peca we get.

He used to be great, but since Tucker took out his knee he hasn`t been the same. Anyway that's what I hear, I haven't seen him play in a long time.

Some will say he's finished, a shell of his former self. Others will tell you it takes a full year or two to completely recover from a major knee injury so we might be getting him just as he is ready to get back speed.

That's a chance we take if we make this deal. Then again the Isles would be taking on an injury-prone player who is recovering from cancer... so both sides are taking a risk in that sense.

Contract wise Koivu is signed for 2 years... 4.25 & 4.75 or in that range anyway. Peca has 2-3 years left at 5M.

Similar.

We add toughness, lose offense... but the deal will be made because Peca is unhappy in NYI & the sentiment in Montreal might be Koivu must go so the Habs can turn the page on the past and enter the Gainey era.

But until we know the specifics of the deal, all the players that are involved... we can't evaluate this deal accurately.

If it'll ever happen of course... hehe

[Edited on 17-12-03 by Habs77]

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Koivu is one of those players that sets the standard for everyone else. He is the image that the Montreal Canadiens need to be projecting. Hard working. Talented. Devoted. Classy.

He will be a habs forever, even if it is as a fourth liner. Ribeiro replacing Koivu? Give me a break. It is no coincidence that Zednik, Bulis, and Ryder all heated up, and the team started to play spirited hockey at the same time of Koivu's return.

The fact that Michel Bergeron and Pierre Rinfret have the stones to suggest something like this makes me nuts. These guys consider Ribeiro to be a better hockey player than Koivu. C'mon! These racist pigs on 110% are a disgrace to their province, and the entirety of Canada, not to mention habs fans world wide.

For the record, Peca is one of my favourite players in the league. However, the day Saku is traded for him is the day he becomes my least favourite.

Please BG, don't pull a grinch and ruin our CHristmas.

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Koivu for Peca might not be the best but if the deal alos mean that we land Hamrlik and get rid of Rivet, it could be worth it.

Another thing is that Peca is from Toronto. I don't know why, but I don't like having Toronto-born players in Montreal... Sick idea, but that's the way it is.

If the deal came thur, we would add about a million to the salary. Can Montreal afford it?

Would Peca accept becoming a habs?

What's the realation between Hamrlik and Bulis?

Does Peca hava a "friend" in Montreal?

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Here's Pierre Mcguire talking to Melnick on Team990 regarding this trade. I'll take his word over most other people's.

- Good Deal for both teams.

- Gainey would probably look for size.

- Peca's substansial contract over the next 3 years could scare us away.

- He'd be very surprised.

- Pierre's a fan of both guys.

- Habs need the offence Koivu gives us.

- We've been much better since Koivu's return.

- He's heard nothing.

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I'll agree, it's intriguing to see our team talked about in trade rumours. It's always exciting to hear about our team's chances at acquiring new, fresh players.

Unfortunately, what ever you hear from the fourth period.com is most often false. For the most part, they're speculating hockey fans, such as you and I, who have a website that they like to will with whatever rumour floats to the top of their head.

;)

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Originally posted by ch_nl

Maybe that's the problem.

Canadien-fans love Saku Koivu that much that they sometimes are blinded.  

Maybe I'm blind but trading Koivu is already a very bad thing. And getting Peca in return is even a worst idea.

Peca would become automatically the team's leader and probably captain. If Koivu leaves we have no legitimate leader(s) remaining to take over and lead the team. IMO, Peca would not be the positive leader we need. Maybe I'm wrong about Peca. But I still prefer 100X our team be lead by our fragile Finn warrior than Peca.

On another hand, it would be very good for Koivu to play on a team like the Islanders. He would be more fit on a 2nd line and would even have better winger.

I'd rather take a NYI dman or 2 before Peca

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Originally posted by jl.roberts

I'll agree, it's intriguing to see our team talked about in trade rumours. It's always exciting to hear about our team's chances at acquiring new, fresh players.  

Unfortunately, what ever you hear from the fourth period.com is most often false. For the most part, they're speculating hockey fans, such as you and I, who have a website that they like to will with whatever rumour floats to the top of their head.

;)

I'll defend 4th period (since I knew the owner , from another board a few years ago..) , he does have some insider info.... As far as I know he works/worked for a media outlet. Anyways 4th Period isnt "making up" anything themselves , they'll just re-reporting what other sources have said , if its BS , its not 4th Period's fault... Is it? Dont think so.

Anyways , I hardly goto that site myself. I stay away from rumour sites in general , I like to think that I follow the habs closely enough to know what rumours are worth talking about.

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The 4th period is down right now so I can't read it's story on the trade rumor, but all the other outlets on the net like Spectors are just reporting the rumor mentionned on 110%.

So far I have seen only one source for this rumor, it's just that everyone has picked it up. Rinfret worked at CKAC, so 110% and CKAC is the same thing... not 2 sources that support each other.

Actually there is a second source... but it's not very solid to say the least.

A person some of you are familiar with, who calls himself the MolsonMan on another message board... has claimed for years to have inside info and has been right in predicting some of the Habs moves in the past.

He mentionned a few weeks ago that the Habs were discussing a major trade, that may or may not go through, involving players we might not expect.

This rumor fits that description.

As I said, not very solid... I'm just saying we might have 2 sources for this rumor.

I really hope they pull the trigger quickly if it's going to happen, rumors of major trades that linger on can't be good for the team.

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Koivu is a spark for the team and things are going well now so i dont think a major trade needs to happen at the moment, especially not this one.

One or two players are not gonna make the habs a cup contender so i'd rather keep most of the guys that are with the team now, focus on dumping Audette, perreault, Sundstrom, Kilger, and Juneau, and when the CBA is settled next season make some moves to improve the team then.

:ghg:

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Peca for Koivu straight up doesn't do it for me. We fill a hole but we start a new one on offense.

But ch_nl had a great point, if its Koivu and Rivet for Peca and Hamrlik, then I would seriously consider it.

Personnally I like tough defensive centers with offensive upside, I like Svitov and I like Peca(even though he hasn't impressed me lately). If we could have both for our 2nd and 3rd line it would be awesome. Especially if we could keep Koivu.

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Originally posted by Habsaku

Peca for Koivu straight up doesn't do it for me. We fill a hole but we start a new one on offense.  

I agree with this, to me a Peca for Saku trade is very much a one step forward, two step back kind of deal.

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I bet if this deal happens I can predict the future right here.

1. the trade... Koivu dominates in NYI Peca plays so and so

2. Gainey thinks Peca has too high contract and gets into a dispute with him ending with a trade for a pick.

3. The pick is used to draft another french-canadian player that never becomes a nhl-player.

4. Montreal stinks for another 10 years and it all ends with empty bell center and a move to USA.

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The makes more sense if viewed as the first step of a two part plan.

--> move out Koivu, bring in Peca

--> move out Juneau, bring in big 1st line center

Then you'll have a big #1 center, and Peca as a major upgrade over Juneau on the 3rd line.

The problem is the 2nd step might not come until the summer... in the meantime I agree the team will be missing some offense.

Then again we managed to do well without Koivu to begin the year... so it's not impossible for this bunch to have success without him.

And if we get other players, that helps make the trade more interesting depending what the final deal is.

We just have to wait and see, and that's if it happens at all.

I'll be curious to see how Koivu reacts to it tonight... on the ice, and in front of the cameras when the hordes of media ask him about it.

[Edited on 18-12-03 by Habs77]

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Originally posted by Habs77

The makes more sense if viewed as the first step of a two part plan.

--> move out Koivu, bring in Peca

--> move out Juneau, bring in big 1st line center

Then you'll have a big #1 center, and Peca as a major upgrade over Juneau on the 3rd line.

The problem is the 2nd step might not come until the summer... in the meantime I agree the team will be missing some offense.  

I read on this board sometime before that the Habs (due to BG's connections in Dallas) might be interested in Jason Arnott. He's big but a #1 center?

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Originally posted by Habs77

We just have to wait and see, and that's if it happens at all.

I'll be curious to see how Koivu reacts to it tonight... on the ice, and in front of the cameras when the hordes of media ask him about it.

Gainey has come out and said that he expects this team to make the playoffs -- and yet he's willing to trade his #1 centre (who, according to espn, is on pace to match last year's totals) to one of the six teams that the Habs are battling with for a playoff spot? It doesn't make sense at all in the short term - but, as Habs77 has alluded to, perhaps Gainey's thinking longer term on this one.

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