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mathieu30

The Carey Price Thread

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Point is that Kolzig is the same type of goaltender as Price. From the same area, and not that far from him in age. The fact that he was a much better NHL goaltender than Melanson is secondary, but not without some merit. Whose advice is worth more do you think, advice coming from Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey, or advice coming from Claude Julien, Michel Therrien, or Alain Vigneault? I'd take the advice of the people who have excelled at the highest levels first and foremost.

As for Michaud, he was the top goalie in the Q the year before Melanson got his hands on him. Better career numbers there than Pascal Leclaire who was playing at the same time. Selected to Team Canada for the WJC as an 18 year old. Not exactly chopped liver. Plus he was brilliant in his lone NHL game. No good reason that he should have slipped into mediocrity over the space of 5 years.

If you guys want to be blind homer dickheads go ahead. But the facts don't support your leaps of faith in the least.

Mathieu Garon was the top goalie in the Q as well. Maybe in the CHL. He played for Team Canada at the WJC as well. To say that he was "nothing until Melanson got ahold of him" is sheer crap.

Have some respect for this board - no need for the insults when others disagree with you.

Fact is there have been a lot of great young goalies who haven't survived in the NHL over the years. None of it had anything to do with goalie coaches getting their hands on them. Plain and simple truth is that when it came down to playing at the NHL level, they weren't good enough against all of the very best shooters in the game. People here aren't being a homer in this case, as there is just too much external evidence out there that supports the fact Melanson is considered one of the best at his craft.

Disagree if you choose to, but use some respect in doing so....

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I think that Melanson is harmless enough. I don't think that goaltender coaches make much of a difference one way or the other, unless they are coaching 10 year olds. By the time the kids reach camp, their styles are pretty much ingrained. If they are coming out of junior as top draft picks and have had a lot of success, the less interference the better. There is no single technical style that succeeds over the others. Some of the best NHL goaltenders are the most unorthodox. Cristobal Huet is hardly a textbook style netminder, but trying to change his style at this point in time would be a disaster for all concerned. I just get irritated when posters start going off on how great Melanson is when there is nothing to back it up. If Gainey wants to keep him around because he is a jolly figure in the dressing room and fun to sit with at the hotel bar, fine. Grotesque amounts of money are wasted by professional sports franchises every day and in every conceivable manner, this is hardly the worst case of profligacy. But just don't go on about Melanson. or Allaire, or whoever. Carey Price is a pretty smart kid by all indications, I don't think he is going to change much from what he learned from his Dad and Olaf Kolzig. There is no gaurantee he is even going to sign with Montreal. He just has to wait a few more months and he will go back in the draft. That is why Carolina traded Jack Johnson so cheaply. JJ showed them he was willing to wait them out.

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Point is that Kolzig is the same type of goaltender as Price. From the same area, and not that far from him in age. The fact that he was a much better NHL goaltender than Melanson is secondary, but not without some merit. Whose advice is worth more do you think, advice coming from Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey, or advice coming from Claude Julien, Michel Therrien, or Alain Vigneault? I'd take the advice of the people who have excelled at the highest levels first and foremost.

As for Michaud, he was the top goalie in the Q the year before Melanson got his hands on him. Better career numbers there than Pascal Leclaire who was playing at the same time. Selected to Team Canada for the WJC as an 18 year old. Not exactly chopped liver. Plus he was brilliant in his lone NHL game. No good reason that he should have slipped into mediocrity over the space of 5 years.

If you guys want to be blind homer dickheads go ahead. But the facts don't support your leaps of faith in the least.

Mathieu Garon was the top goalie in the Q as well. Maybe in the CHL. He played for Team Canada at the WJC as well. To say that he was "nothing until Melanson got ahold of him" is sheer crap.

Do you honestly think that all a coach does is "advise" players? There have been some very good NHL players who have crashed and burned as coaches...and there have been MANY excellent coaches who never played in the NHL. Hell, SCOTTY BOWMAN never played in the NHL...I guess no one would ever want his "advice"...but maybe they'd let him coach them. LOL

There are plenty of great players who could give world class "advice" on the game but couldn't actually TEACH it. BIG DIFFERENCE. This is why your argument is baseless.

You point to a number of goalies that Melanson supposedly ruined but the fact remains that many of them were highly touted goalies while they were under his tutelage and they did not truly slip into mediocrity until they left the coaching of Melanson after being traded. As for Michaud, I don't think he was ever a highly regarded prospect by ANY publication, scouting report or even most fans...so using him as a point of note is of no note at all.

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I never said that Melanson "ruined" any goaltenders. Don't twist my words. When he came to Montreal, Thibault, Theodore, and Vokoun were the young goalies he inherited. Thibault was the main project, and he flamed out after a couple of years with Melanson as his coach. Theodore took over and he flamed out a few years later. IN MONTREAL, not elsewhere. Vokoun was given away before Melanson had a chance to impart his wisdom to him. The least promising of the three, and the (by far) lowest draft pick turned into one of the league's best netminders ELSEWHERE. Either on his own, or with the help of some OTHER GOALTENDING COACH. You can twist my words, but you can't alter the FACTS.

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Point is that Kolzig is the same type of goaltender as Price. From the same area, and not that far from him in age. The fact that he was a much better NHL goaltender than Melanson is secondary, but not without some merit. Whose advice is worth more do you think, advice coming from Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey, or advice coming from Claude Julien, Michel Therrien, or Alain Vigneault? I'd take the advice of the people who have excelled at the highest levels first and foremost.

As for Michaud, he was the top goalie in the Q the year before Melanson got his hands on him. Better career numbers there than Pascal Leclaire who was playing at the same time. Selected to Team Canada for the WJC as an 18 year old. Not exactly chopped liver. Plus he was brilliant in his lone NHL game. No good reason that he should have slipped into mediocrity over the space of 5 years.

If you guys want to be blind homer dickheads go ahead. But the facts don't support your leaps of faith in the least.

Mathieu Garon was the top goalie in the Q as well. Maybe in the CHL. He played for Team Canada at the WJC as well. To say that he was "nothing until Melanson got ahold of him" is sheer crap.

So when did Melanson get his hands on Michaud? Cause he was signed after camp as a FA after going undrafted in '01. In less then 1 year from when he was signed, he wasn't even invited to Team Canada's camp. How much time did Melanson put in with an undrafted goalie in juniors when he had his hands full with the NHL and AHL goalies. Michaud was never a top goalie in the Q, his numbers were never that impressive and I know that the Shawinigan fans I talked too were not happy with his play in the playoffs and were't said to see him go when he was traded to Drakkar. I know people that personally know Olivier and they all say he's a great kid and it's a sad story that things didn't work out for him. If you want to beleive he was a top goalie in the Q that wasn't drafted, wasn't invited back to Team Canada, lost his starting job in the ECHL in back to back years, then by all means knock your self out, but there's no need for name calling.

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.... Michaud was never a top goalie in the Q, his numbers were never that impressive ..... If you want to beleive he was a top goalie in the Q that wasn't drafted....

I guess the QMJHL must have awarded him the Jacques Plante Trophy in 2002 for his community service or something.

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Mum's the word for Melanson

Student of game. Actions speak louder for Habs goalie coach

Speaking of facts. If you taped some Canadiens games you should try to see one from december 2005, and compare it with a recent game. Hint: keep an eye on Huet's basic standing position and on his movement.

Merci beaucoup Mr. Melanson.

:hlogo:

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I guess the QMJHL must have awarded him the Jacques Plante Trophy in 2002 for his community service or something.

The Jacques Plante Memorial Trophy is awarded to the goalie with the top GAA. If he was so good why did Shawinigan turn around and trade him. If he was so good why was his save % so poor on such a good team (2nd overall in the Q) with guys like Zbynek Michalek and J-F David on defense.

Imo Adam Russo, Marc-André Fleury, Dany Dallaire, Jonathan Cayer (played on a shaky rocket team) were all better goalies in 2001-2002. Michaud wasn't even in the top 10 in save % despite playing on a very good Shawinigan team. Also in the playoffs, Pascel Leclaire put up some impressive numbers with a .932 save % and a gaa of 2.04 if you recall that year Shawinigan finished 2nd overall in the Q but in the playoffs they fell short to victoriaville who went on to beat Bathurst for the league championship.

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And that former poster was from B.C. too...

HEY! Not all BCers are nitwits! :angry:

Whose advice is worth more do you think, advice coming from Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey, or advice coming from Claude Julien, Michel Therrien, or Alain Vigneault? I'd take the advice of the people who have excelled at the highest levels first and foremost.

Do you honestly think that all a coach does is "advise" players? There have been some very good NHL players who have crashed and burned as coaches...and there have been MANY excellent coaches who never played in the NHL. Hell, SCOTTY BOWMAN never played in the NHL...I guess no one would ever want his "advice"...but maybe they'd let him coach them. LOL

There are plenty of great players who could give world class "advice" on the game but couldn't actually TEACH it. BIG DIFFERENCE. This is why your argument is baseless.

As Zowpeb said, would you rather have Scotty Bowman, someone who never played in the NHL, or Wayne Gretzky, considered by many to be the greatest hockey player ever, as your head coach?

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HEY! Not all BCers are nitwits! :angry:

As Zowpeb said, would you rather have Scotty Bowman, someone who never played in the NHL, or Wayne Gretzky, considered by many to be the greatest hockey player ever, as your head coach?

uuummmhhhh??????..... Oh yeah - Bowman!!!!!!!!!!!! B) :hlogo: :lol:

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I never said that Melanson "ruined" any goaltenders. Don't twist my words. When he came to Montreal, Thibault, Theodore, and Vokoun were the young goalies he inherited. Thibault was the main project, and he flamed out after a couple of years with Melanson as his coach. Theodore took over and he flamed out a few years later. IN MONTREAL, not elsewhere. Vokoun was given away before Melanson had a chance to impart his wisdom to him. The least promising of the three, and the (by far) lowest draft pick turned into one of the league's best netminders ELSEWHERE. Either on his own, or with the help of some OTHER GOALTENDING COACH. You can twist my words, but you can't alter the FACTS.

I'm not twisting words at all. You are saying that Theodore, Thibault and Michaud all "flamed" out under him. Without getting into a large argument about your implications, or semantics, it's pretty clear that you are indeed saying that he ruined their careers. Your hypothesis is clearly that a coach who played at a higher level would have made them into legit stars. I'm paraphrasing obviously, but this is basically what you've said, in almost every post in this thread.

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HEY! Not all BCers are nitwits! :angry:

You misunderstood... I meant to say they're both the one and same poster. I've known him since he was messing up on the ESPN Habs board back in the old days and then on HF... The guy always blather on about the same things, so he's easy to spot. That's why Dann (montreal) recognized him too.

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You misunderstood... I meant to say they're both the one and same poster. I've known him since he was messing up on the ESPN Habs board back in the old days and then on HF... The guy always blather on about the same things, so he's easy to spot. That's why Dann (montreal) recognized him too.

Ahh, I see now.

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Mum's the word for Melanson

Student of game. Actions speak louder for Habs goalie coach

Speaking of facts. If you taped some Canadiens games you should try to see one from december 2005, and compare it with a recent game. Hint: keep an eye on Huet's basic standing position and on his movement.

Merci beaucoup Mr. Melanson.

:hlogo:

Couldn't agree more. Huet plays an almost perfect high-percentage style and has improved positionally since he got to Mtl. His lateral movement was a big problem when he first got here and was again weak at the start of the season this year. I too say Merci M. Melanson! And bet Huet does too.

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as often happens, this thread has meandered away from the original topic.

with that being said, i wonder if, due to his performance at the wjc, price's general prospect 'rating' will improve or remain the same...

i would expect it to improve but i wouldn't be surprised to see it remain unchanged. as an example, justin pogge is rated an 8.0C on hockeysfuture.com... i don't know what he was at before his wjc performance...

also, tuuku rask is also an 8.0C... again, i don't know what he was at before his wjc performance...

by the way, price is rated and 8.0B

GO :hlogo: GO!

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Coach says Price ready for NHL

"I look at his progression, his maturity, both physical and mental, Carey will be a serious candidate to earn a spot on the team at training camp in Montreal. I believe he is capable of making the jump directly to the NHL, even at 19. And so does he."

:hlogo:

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Very encouraging news. I'm looking forward to our team next season. We will probably be one of the top 5 teams in nets in the NHL, and our young forwards will make our offense very excitingto watch.

I'm a little concerned about our D next season, but hopefully we can get Emelin to come over and challenge for a roster spot.

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Encouraging, indeed. However, it's interesting how fast things change. Last off-season, everybody felt we were very deep and solid in net, with the 'two number ones' with the Habs, and Danis who looked very solid in his call-ups last season. So what happens? Huet is good but inconsistent, then injured, and Abby and Danis go to pot. Now we're relying on Halak (who few expected to play at all with the big club, and was widely considered to be Danis' AHL backup) to drag us into the playoffs. As we know, in the bigs he started well, cooled off, and now is red hot.

In that light, I guess the most encouraging thing in the article was how consistent Price has been. If he just becomes a decent but unspectacular goalie who is consistent, that would be a nice change.

Oh, and even though he and his coach think he can graduate to the NHL immediately, hopefully Price won't be too disappointed when it doesn't happen. He'll almost certainly start out in the AHL next season. However, maybe he'll get the late season call to drag us into the playoffs... :rolleyes:

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Very nice little article, very promising.

But Gainey and the Canadiens rarely rush prospects and goalies usually need even more time and nurturing so my bet is he starts 50-60 games in Hamilton next season barring injury to Halak or Huet.

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as often happens, this thread has meandered away from the original topic.

with that being said, i wonder if, due to his performance at the wjc, price's general prospect 'rating' will improve or remain the same...

i would expect it to improve but i wouldn't be surprised to see it remain unchanged. as an example, justin pogge is rated an 8.0C on hockeysfuture.com... i don't know what he was at before his wjc performance...

also, tuuku rask is also an 8.0C... again, i don't know what he was at before his wjc performance...

by the way, price is rated and 8.0B

GO :hlogo: GO!

I'd rate him a 8.5A or a 9B

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I'd rate him a 8.5A or a 9B

I concur.

Carey Price has shown no sign of being a potantial bust, and he's clearly the best goaltender in the CHL right now. He's been the best goaltender during training camps in Montreal for the last two seasons (not that it means much, but still), and as his coach mentionned, he might even be able to play in the NHL already.

With perhaps the exception of Rask (and still), Price is likely the best goalie prospect in the world at this moment.

However, I do believe it will be far better for Carey Price to play at least a full season in Hamilton as the number 1 goaltender before joining the Habs. Besides, with Huet and Halak, there is absolutely no reason to rush him, and risk hindering his development. And if Price dominates in the AHL next season, it will just give our general manager the opportunity to trade either Huet or Halak, one of whom might have some good market value during the following summer.

Edited by CerebusClone

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And if Price dominates in the AHL next season, it will just give our general manager the opportunity to trade either Huet or Halak, one of whom might have some good market value during the following summer.

Well unless the give an extension to Huet he will be a UFA next summer!

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Well unless the give an extension to Huet he will be a UFA next summer!

Sorry, you're right, for some reason I thought we signed him to a 3-year contract.

Edited by CerebusClone

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“The drills Rollie starting teaching me a year ago made everything I needed to do last season that much easier. Rollie is a great coach and a lot of fun to work with. But the main thing is that he really knows his stuff.

-Carey Price

source: canadiens.com

;)

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When a little boy..

becomes a future star..

:) :hlogo:

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