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Pierre the Great

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But some righties in this country want to ship off the illegals and there kids who are legal since they were born here but are illegitimate so to speak.

So if they want to round up 30 million people like cows put them in camps and ship them back they might as well ship me back to Europe as well.

Theyre just xenophobes, the same types who existed all through the USA's history trying to stop whatever wave of immigrants was coming in at the time (italians, jews, irish, chinese, etc.), the rest of the American right (fiscal conservatives) know that cheap, hard working mexicans are so important to the economy and a key reason the American economy is so strong compared to everyone else.

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and a corporate end-run around labour laws...

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There's a difference between a minister and the PRIME minister. I dont want some guy who wont renounce his france citizenship running this country, we would be a joke. There's a reason the Americans have rules against this sort of thing.

Why won't he renounce his France citizenship anyways?? What a stubborn jerk, Michelle Jean did it.

John Turner was a British Citizen when he was PM nobody fussed over it. Michelle Jean's case is different. She got the French citizenship through marriage. She wasn't born with the French citizenship.

Man oh man

Yeah I'm pretty angry over this issue.

Theyre just xenophobes, the same types who existed all through the USA's history trying to stop whatever wave of immigrants was coming in at the time (italians, jews, irish, chinese, etc.), the rest of the American right (fiscal conservatives) know that cheap, hard working mexicans are so important to the economy and a key reason the American economy is so strong compared to everyone else.

Yep, always the case. The people who want a fence and other things and want to deport 30 million people talk about how America is changing from what it used to be (anglo to mixed) and they don't like it. Nobody calls them out on there racist views here. These same people are also against mixed marriages, partners with different religions marrying. Typical rural close minded view of the world.

No, it's cool. Ottawa can have him. :P

So did Dion have to apply for the citizenship at all or are you automatically given it when your parent is born in a different country? If thats the case, I have Dutch citizenship. :D

Apparently, you've got to ask your parents if they renounced there citizenship before hand.

For example my dad should be a Hungarian citizen but for some reason the government didn't accept my grandparents dual citizenship. Probably had to do with the communists. Last thing my grandparents probably wanted was for McCarthy to come after them, a couple that barely spoke english, grandpa who was from communist Hungary and so on.

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Yep, always the case. The people who want a fence and other things and want to deport 30 million people talk about how America is changing from what it used to be (anglo to mixed) and they don't like it. Nobody calls them out on there racist views here. These same people are also against mixed marriages, partners with different religions marrying. Typical rural close minded view of the world.

most people who are concerned about border security or illegal immigration are not nearly so radical. Most people recognize that it is practically impossible to deport even a large proportion of illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigration is not a particularly good thing. It is not good for American working class labourers. Just because one is concerned about a growing number of illegal immigrants, who allow corporations to avoid american labour protections, it does not follow that they are racist or homophobic.

Certainly there are a significant number of people whose views on mexican immigration are informed by racist beliefs, but there are legitimate anti-immigration viewpoints that ought no be tossed aside so quickly.

I fear you are erecting something of a strawman in the immigration debate.

BTW - i've seen plenty of people call Pat Bucchanan or Lou Dobbs racist... to their faces.

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most people who are concerned about border security or illegal immigration are not nearly so radical. Most people recognize that it is practically impossible to deport even a large proportion of illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigration is not a particularly good thing. It is not good for American working class labourers. Just because one is concerned about a growing number of illegal immigrants, who allow corporations to avoid american labour protections, it does not follow that they are racist or homophobic.

Certainly there are a significant number of people whose views on mexican immigration are informed by racist beliefs, but there are legitimate anti-immigration viewpoints that ought no be tossed aside so quickly.

I fear you are erecting something of a strawman in the immigration debate.

BTW - i've seen plenty of people call Pat Bucchanan or Lou Dobbs racist... to their faces.

LOL the two people I was talking about was Buchanan and Dobbs. Plus there's a few Fox News guys that want to set up concentration camps round everyone up like cattle and send them back to Mexico too. Then there's that Colorado Congressman.

Since when has the politicians ever cared about the labour middle class? They never have. Try to start a union you get fired. I have a dangerous job at night and I don't have any health/security/accident help. Republicans and Democrats only care about the 5% of this country who live in giant castles of a home. Meanwhile almost half of the country goes without health insurance for the year. Almost a 1/3rd are below the poverty line. The middle and lower class people are becoming the next caste system of India. We are the untouchables now. They don't care about us, never have.

CBC did a check on MP's that have dual citizenship:

CBC.ca called their offices to check on their current status and found that the following MPs hold dual citizenships:

* Omar Alghabra (Ontario Liberal), with Syria.

* Raymond Chan (British Columbia Liberal), with the United Kingdom.

* Libby Davies (British Columbia NDP), with the United Kingdom.

* Jim Karygiannis (Ontario Liberal), with Greece.

* Wajid Khan (Ontario Liberal), with Pakistan.

* Maka Kotto (Quebec Bloc Québécois), with France.

* Pablo Rodriguez (Quebec Liberal), with Argentina.

* Michael Savage (Nova Scotia Liberal), with the United Kingdom.

* Mario Silva (Ontario Liberal), with Portugal.

* Lui Temelkovski (Ontario Liberal), with Macedonia.

* Myron Thompson (Alberta Conservative), with the United States.

Three of the foreign-born MPs' citizenship status remains unknown.

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Because I'm illegal (technically). My grandpa got here legally but he was and could be considered an illegal immigrant from where he came from.

Um, not at all. If a child is born in the US, they are granted US citizenship automatically.

People talk about how it is hypocritical for the US to crack down on the border because of how America was built on the foundation of many different peoples coming together. It's a load of bull. Millions of people immigrated here legally, many of my own family did that. They followed the rules and got to come to the land of opportunities. It's a slap in the face to them that so many people immigrate here illegaly these days. People saved money and waited on lists for years to come here, now it's as easy as hopping the border.

Just a couple months ago an illegal alien rear ended my parents car. He of course did not a driver's license or insurance, so even though the accident was his fault, my parents are on the hook for the deductible on their insurance.

Its in the news some 30 million apparently are here illegally. (doesn't bother me they're good people)

Yep, all illegal aliens are good people. :wacko: Sure, many of them are just trying to get a better life, but there are plenty of illegal aliens dealing drugs and joining gangs. Plus, with a loose border, eventually somebody is going to sneak something nasty into the US. It's really only a matter of time.

Now the average american isn't very smart.

Thanks. I guess that must mean I'm not an average person.

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Yes Fanpuck it is a slap in the face to all the people who came through Ellis Island. But this is a bigger issue then build a fence and the people will stop. This is something the US can't control and since Obrador wasn't elected and Calderon was its going to be more of the same in Mexico. The problem won't be fixed by a simple little fence.

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So you acknowledge a problem Pierre?

I dont see where Fanpuck advocates a fence, certainly not as a solitary measure.

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Yes there is a problem but its more of Mexico's problem then ours. My grandpa when he was 13 was tired of living in poverty in Hungary with its dirt floors, no heat no jobs or anything. Said goodbye to his mother (last time he ever saw her) and him and his brother walked across the border into Austria in search for jobs. Now they did that illegally but they did it because they had to, to survive.

Drive up and down Northern Mexico and you'll see why people cross the border. Mexico City doesn't care about them, they are forgotten. And when the next door nieghbour is America you're going to go where the jobs and opportunities are no matter what even if its illegal or not. If there's a will there's a way, people in dire poverty will do whatever is necessary to get a better life.

Then there are people who hire them here. We need the workers because nobody will do what they do.

So yes I agree and disagree because this is a completely bigger issue then of they're here illegally. There's a reason why they are doing this and that is Mexico and Central America. As long as the politicians down there are for the rich people and not the majority of people down there people will continue to flow to America. But of course Washington supports the oppressors in Latin and South America and not people who will fix the problem. So it continues.

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Yes there is a problem but its more of Mexico's problem then ours. My grandpa when he was 13 was tired of living in poverty in Hungary with its dirt floors, no heat no jobs or anything. Said goodbye to his mother (last time he ever saw her) and him and his brother walked across the border into Austria in search for jobs. Now they did that illegally but they did it because they had to, to survive.

Drive up and down Northern Mexico and you'll see why people cross the border. Mexico City doesn't care about them, they are forgotten. And when the next door nieghbour is America you're going to go where the jobs and opportunities are no matter what even if its illegal or not. If there's a will there's a way, people in dire poverty will do whatever is necessary to get a better life.

Then there are people who hire them here. We need the workers because nobody will do what they do.

So yes I agree and disagree because this is a completely bigger issue then of they're here illegally. There's a reason why they are doing this and that is Mexico and Central America. As long as the politicians down there are for the rich people and not the majority of people down there people will continue to flow to America. But of course Washington supports the oppressors in Latin and South America and not people who will fix the problem. So it continues.

Yeah Mexico's got problems. The country is very rich but the economy is too tightly controlled by the state. Way too many monopolists are allowed to excersize control over everything, this cuts down on economic growth so that millions of people cant get jobs and go north to the USA (where there is a labour shortage, I mean, even with all these illegals there is still 4-5% unemployment in most of the country, thats phenominal).

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Then there are people who hire them here. We need the workers because nobody will do what they do.

Absolutely, Americans will not do those jobs for such low salaries and under such horrid working conditions. Illegal immigration is a corporate subsidy.

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Yes Fanpuck it is a slap in the face to all the people who came through Ellis Island. But this is a bigger issue then build a fence and the people will stop. This is something the US can't control and since Obrador wasn't elected and Calderon was its going to be more of the same in Mexico. The problem won't be fixed by a simple little fence.

Show me the word "fence" anywhere in my post.

I mean, even with all these illegals there is still 4-5% unemployment in most of the country, thats phenominal).

Excellent statisitc. Now that I see it again, I remember reading that a couple weeks ago.

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Excellent statisitc. Now that I see it again, I remember reading that a couple weeks ago.

doesn't include joblessness, part-time work, people who have re-enrolled in school because of a bad job market and, most importantly, underemployment.

also real wages aint so great.

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The middle and lower class people are becoming the next caste system of India. We are the untouchables now. They don't care about us, never have.

Oh come on, give me a break. Comparing America to India is an absolute joke and you know it.

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Whatever, the poor do not have a voice here.

There's a difference between not having a voice and being treated like subhuman POS. Do poor people in America get beaten up if they accidentally touch the shadow of a rich person? I realize things aren't that great in America, but please, try to use reasonable comparisons. I mean, what next? Comparing Bush to Hitler because both of them started wars?

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There's a difference between not having a voice and being treated like subhuman POS. Do poor people in America get beaten up if they accidentally touch the shadow of a rich person? I realize things aren't that great in America, but please, try to use reasonable comparisons. I mean, what next? Comparing Bush to Hitler because both of them started wars?

Well they get looked at funny and cops called on them. I walked into Saks 5th Avenue I was asked what I was doing there.

When I was being taught how to throw papers 2 years ago the guy who was teaching me (who was black) got called on by someone in the nieghbourhood we were in for suspicious person driving around the nieghbourhood. I strongly believe if it was just me and a white guy that wouldn't happen.

Only people the cops pull over here at night in the white suburbs are black people. Racial profiling is a disease here 85% of people pulled over here in this state are either black or Hispanic. Its the worst in the nation.

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Well they get looked at funny and cops called on them. I walked into Saks 5th Avenue I was asked what I was doing there.

When I was being taught how to throw papers 2 years ago the guy who was teaching me (who was black) got called on by someone in the nieghbourhood we were in for suspicious person driving around the nieghbourhood. I strongly believe if it was just me and a white guy that wouldn't happen.

Only people the cops pull over here at night in the white suburbs are black people. Racial profiling is a disease here 85% of people pulled over here in this state are either black or Hispanic. Its the worst in the nation.

How does this even come CLOSE to comparing to the situation in India?

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I said its like and becoming like India if things continue the way the do for another 50 years or so. Supreme Court is going to over turn de-seg programs that means we'll be back to brown v board of education days.

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I said its like and becoming like India if things continue the way the do for another 50 years or so. Supreme Court is going to over turn de-seg programs that means we'll be back to brown v board of education days.

Dude, America is NOT going to de-evolve into a third-world country with a caste system similar to the one in India. That's just ludicrous. The UN or some other human rights organization would step in long before things got to that point, if they even would.

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Dude, America is NOT going to de-evolve into a third-world country with a caste system similar to the one in India. That's just ludicrous. The UN or some other human rights organization would step in long before things got to that point, if they even would.

Where was the 'UN' in the 50's and 60's? Why wasn't the US put on sanctions like South Africa for its apartheid?

The UN is powerless the US controls it, the US can break all the rules and get away with it because its 'America'.

Now the US won't become a third world country.... yet. It will lose power in the future. All kingdoms rise and fall, the US hasn't had its Norman Invasion yet. Its nearing the end of its Pax Romana though.

If you don't believe me that there's something sinister in the water I want you to fly down here and See North Saint Louis and East Saint Louis then get on the highway and come to where I live. Its TWO DIFFERENT WORLDS.

Go to Memphis you get the same thing.

Atlanta? Same

Detroit? same

Chicago, New York, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans.

LA

This country has a caste system its just veiled differently.

We have an epidemic going on here and nobody is lifting a finger. NOBODY.

I don't see politicians talking about the inner city slums, the poverty of the indian reservations out West where the life expectancy is around 52, alcoholism is high, and if you're a kid a school there's a 50% chance you'll commit suicide from the life you live.

Tell me where do you here people talking about the poor here? You don't, you never have and you never will. Instead we want to fix the world's problems instead of our own.

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Pierre you sound like a very angry & bitter person, you need to chill out and take a breather

doesn't include joblessness, part-time work, people who have re-enrolled in school because of a bad job market and, most importantly, underemployment.

also real wages aint so great.

So?? Thats a factor in any country, the bottom line is that America's employment numbers are better than anywhere else and the economy is growing faster than all the other 1st world countries, so they are doing something right.

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So?? Thats a factor in any country, the bottom line is that America's employment numbers are better than anywhere else and the economy is growing faster than all the other 1st world countries, so they are doing something right.

yes, these other things are important factors, but they are not calculated or reflected in the unemployment figure. Unemployment is the batting average of economics - what it doesn't tell you is at least as important as what it does.

Edited by simonus

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yes, these other things are important factors, but they are not calculated or reflected in the unemployment figure. Unemployment is the batting average of economics - what it doesn't tell you is at least as important as what it does.

Yes obviously, but you are still just arguing semantics.

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Yes obviously, but you are still just arguing semantics.

no I'm not. You are saying that the economy is good because the unemployment number is low. I am saying that the unemployment number is not representative of the quality of the job market and thus a bad barometer of economic health. That is not semantic - there is a substantive problem in the use of this metric for economic analysis absent other corroborating data. Real wages, for example, have just started to go up after falling for four straight years - this indicates the the economy is getting healthier, not that it is robust. Exclusive use of the unemployment rate gives a very partial and often misrepresentative picture of the economy.

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