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Pierre the Great

The Politics Thread

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The same sex thing is smoke and mirrors politics IMO. We have our socially conservative vote. If this vote dies, Harper can claim he tried. Done deal. This is all a bunch of foolishness. He knows it. Gotta keep those roots happy

Precisely. He's fulfilling an election promise. Harper probably hopes it fails so he can get on with other issues.

That aside, I agree that Harper is doing a decent job. I think people are happy to see that he stands for something and has shown leadership at times. The merits of his stand can always be debated, but it beats the nauseating pandering to opinion polls and associated ambivalence that characterized the Paul Martin regime.

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wha?!

But, the grits farts smell like roses.

PS. Don't invite me to the rose liberal garden patch.

--------------------

I meant if you say the grits smell like roses don't bring me around any roses.

Check out this web page if you are not already aware of it.

http://www.canadawebpages.com/

You'll love it. Awesome page.

Edited by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

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kewl

You notice I trump your bill? Shame on me :P

As much as I'd like to complain about Trudeau the admission he was one of democracy's greats I can admit.

I look forward to more of our debates.

Here's one.

Three cheers for Harper. The gay community will not understand this point of view. Harper knows he isn't getting any left wing gains out of this. But, he's willing to do it anyway.

When the original vote occured, Martin towed the party line on the same sex vote. Harper challenged that it should be a free vote.

No dice from Martin on that request. If Harper had gotten his wish it still would have passed the House anyway. Based on the Liberal's(centrist) , Bloc(left) and NDP(left) there is no chance C-38 would have, could have been defeated in the Liberal minority. That is OBVIOUS

Tomorrow there will be a true free vote. Every MP weighing the odds like Chuck Cadman did. Your seat. Your constituents. Period.

IMO: The law to legalize gay marriage in the eyes of democracy truly happens tomorrow.

I knew it then and it's true now.

Tomorrow the House will vote again. But now the government will be free as well as the entire House.

_____________________________________________________________________

Well, it passed and the NDP plus the Bloc towed their own lines. What a bummer.

Edited by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

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This is coming back to haunt Harper. He wanted to appease the grass roots, that's why he did it. But the religious right is all over him on it. He was hoping that smoke and mirror silly motions would fool them.

The religious interest group and those opposed to bill C-38 have to realize that only section 33 of the Charter can override the Act. Harper said he wouldn't use it. And, even if he did this challenge would legally fail due to the SCC decision on gay marriage.

It's law, and it's a good law. Harper hopes this is the end of it. But, if that particular poli turns up the heat on Harper he might lose alot of sleep.

"May you live in interesting times"

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I don't think its the end of this. That family group whatever they are said this debate was not over. lol

People want what they want sometimes thus disregarding others rights.

People like this don't seem to be able to fathom the importance of minority rule which must be present in order to have a true and democratic society.

This is all so stupid. Bay Street loves the law and divorce lawyers are drinking twice the amount of champagne. Socially conservative people (soft) will lean left if it lines their Bay Street pockets with extra cash.

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yeah I never got the whole 'sanctity of marriage' bolgny. Considering whats the divorce rate again? Oh wow the world is going to end because gays can marry big flippin' deal.

Down here the gay person is the new black person.

Just like if anyone hears a spanish speaking person on the street there first response is 'oh they must be illegal'

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yeah I never got the whole 'sanctity of marriage' bolgny. Considering whats the divorce rate again? Oh wow the world is going to end because gays can marry big flippin' deal.

Down here the gay person is the new black person.

Just like if anyone hears a spanish speaking person on the street there first response is 'oh they must be illegal'

The hilarious thing is that the modern concept of marriage (ie. marrying for love) is relatively new. Up until about the turn of the 20th century, marriage was still seen as a financial arrangement.

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The hilarious thing is that the modern concept of marriage (ie. marrying for love) is relatively new. Up until about the turn of the 20th century, marriage was still seen as a financial arrangement.

Yeah lol no kidding I feel bad for my gay friend. If he ever finds his special someone and wants to spend the rest of his life with him can't get the same financial benefits that I would get if I married someone or moved in with someone (common law). Gay people get royally screwed.

Funny thing is that he's a conservative. lol repubs losing votes.

Another goofy stereotype: gay people are all left wing loonie socialists. lol so not true all the gay people I know are right of centre.

They just want recognition and respect.

Edited by Pierre the Great

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Yeah lol no kidding I feel bad for my gay friend. If he ever finds his special someone and wants to spend the rest of his life with him can't get the same financial benefits that I would get if I married someone or moved in with someone (common law). Gay people get royally screwed.

Funny thing is that he's a conservative. lol repubs losing votes.

Another goofy stereotype: gay people are all left wing loonie socialists. lol so not true all the gay people I know are right of centre.

They just want recognition and respect.

Err, that wasn't what I was referring to, although you do bring up a strong point there. What I meant was that parents would marry off their children to build alliances and whatnot...not because of "love."

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I don't think its the end of this. That family group whatever they are said this debate was not over. lol

I'm sure there are some groups in the country who will never accept it, and will continue to try to bring it up as an issue. However, there will be no party to take up their cause. So from a political perspective, believe me, it's over.

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Down here the gay person is the new black person.

Just like if anyone hears a spanish speaking person on the street there[sic] first response is 'oh they must be illegal'

I think those are some overstatements.

Yeah lol no kidding I feel bad for my gay friend. If he ever finds his special someone and wants to spend the rest of his life with him can't get the same financial benefits that I would get if I married someone or moved in with someone (common law). Gay people get royally screwed.

Funny thing is that he's a conservative. lol repubs losing votes.

Another goofy stereotype: gay people are all left wing loonie socialists. lol so not true all the gay people I know are right of centre.

They just want recognition and respect.

There is no common-law marriage in Missouri... or most of the states in the U.S.

You probably only know conservative homosexuals because you know homosexuals in Missouri. My friends are a mix.

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The hilarious thing is that the modern concept of marriage (ie. marrying for love) is relatively new. Up until about the turn of the 20th century, marriage was still seen as a financial arrangement.

This is somewhat true, but rarely so boldly stated even in past eras. There has been a love component of marriage for quite some time, even if it was not the sole, or even primary, motivation for unions.

If you want to be very anti-marriage, one would point up that marriage has very often been understood to only 'lock-up' the rights of women, not men.

If one looks at the bible, there is frequent references to love existing between partners (e.g. Abraham & Sarah, Jacob & Rachel, David & Bathsheeba). Of course some partners do not apparent love each other (e.g. Jacob & Leah). The historicity of these relationships is immaterial to their relevance as examples of common thought.

But yes, the understanding of marriage changed greatly during the 20th century... one might argue that it began to embody more of the rhetoric which had venerated it.

yeah I never got the whole 'sanctity of marriage' bolgny[sic]. Considering whats the divorce rate again? Oh wow the world is going to end because gays can marry big flippin' deal.

To be fair, no-fault divorce is considered an evil by many who have moral/religious objections to gay marriage. See Covenant Marriage.

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Conservatives cracking down on toxic chemicals-CBC

I'm not surprised. Many columnists have speculated that the C's would launch mini environmental programs to compensate for the Clean Air Act shortcoming. Look for more in the future.

Edited by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

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I still don't think what I said about spanish speaking americans is not an over exaggeration.

Its a bad stereo type yes but its a stereo type thats taken hold in this country.

Its in the news some 30 million apparently are here illegally. (doesn't bother me they're good people)

Then if hispanics or tv or in a show it always deals with some kind of illegal activity. see: Ugly Betty. The father is an illegal. Now the average american isn't very smart and will generalize.

For example I know 5 'illegal' immigrants and am I angry at them like Lou Dobbs? No.

Why?

Because I'm illegal (technically). My grandpa got here legally but he was and could be considered an illegal immigrant from where he came from.

My grandma's dad skipped through Ellis Island. (long story).

So technically I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for 'illegal' activity.

Atleast they can't ship back to Hungary.

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you are not illegal. At most you are the grandson of an illegal immigrant.

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But some righties in this country want to ship off the illegals and there kids who are legal since they were born here but are illegitimate so to speak.

So if they want to round up 30 million people like cows put them in camps and ship them back they might as well ship me back to Europe as well.

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But some righties in this country want to ship off the illegals and there kids who are legal since they were born here but are illegitimate so to speak.

So if they want to round up 30 million people like cows put them in camps and ship them back they might as well ship me back to Europe as well.

that's nice, but it's completely unconstitutional. Even if it were legal, I'd imagine you'd have Statute of Limitations protection.

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Yeah probably.

I just don't get conservatives ship them back mentality. Thats not going to solve anything.

Ever been to the West Bank? There fence makes things worse. Until the US wants to actively help Central America's poor there will still be people coming over no matter what is at the border.

A fence and forced deportation is not going to fix anything.

There's a bigger issue at play here and until we realize what the problem is there will still be people coming to America illegally.

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Harper cheap shots Dion on the citizenship debacle.

PATHETIC

Harper is a pathetic human being.

Not only is he a hypocrite he's being a giant baffoon.

Questioning Dion's loyality.

Well Stevie I'd like to question your loyalty. Mr. Firewall letter.

Stephane Dion has done more for Canada then you will ever do.

Clarity Act for one.

Yeah Dion doesn't care about Canada.

Shame on Mr. Harper.

Forgets Canadian history. Half of the PM's of the great Country of Canada were dual citizens. How many dual citizens are in his cabinet. fool.

Canada was built by two cultures French and British.

For Harper to completely throw out someones background and play the loyality card is not only wrong but utterly disgusting.

Typical Anti-French comments from an Albertan secessionist.

John Turner was a british citizen he even had a trist with the Queens alcoholic sister. Yet nobody NOBODY questioned his loyality to Canada.

Canada is made up of Dualies. Thats what makes it great in my opinion. When I immigrate I'm not giving up my American citizenship because thats who I am, I was born an american I can't take that away from me. Dion's mother was french, he didn't choose to have a french citizenship he was born that way.

Harper not only offended Canadian history but in my opinion offended millions of immigrants in the country he governs saying they aren't Canadian because they have dual citizenship.

No wonder the Conservatives will never win a seat in the big 3 cities. Close minded fools.

Go back to Alberta Stephen you fire wall separatist.

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According to his rule his Health Minister Tony Clement should renounce his British citizenship since he was born the UK. His loyalties are obviously towards Westminster and 10 Downing Street.

Harper *insert foot*

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According to his rule his Health Minister Tony Clement should renounce his British citizenship since he was born the UK. His loyalties are obviously towards Westminster and 10 Downing Street.

Harper *insert foot*

There's a difference between a minister and the PRIME minister. I dont want some guy who wont renounce his france citizenship running this country, we would be a joke. There's a reason the Americans have rules against this sort of thing.

Why won't he renounce his France citizenship anyways?? What a stubborn jerk, Michelle Jean did it.

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Go back to Alberta Stephen you fire wall separatist.

No, it's cool. Ottawa can have him. :P

So did Dion have to apply for the citizenship at all or are you automatically given it when your parent is born in a different country? If thats the case, I have Dutch citizenship. :D

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Go back to Alberta Stephen you fire wall separatist.

Man oh man

Edited by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

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